? 15 Dec | Girlie AMPS 279 Human vs. pet meter/strips question

[Girlie's mom]

Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/14-dec-girlie-amps-279-8-80.188005/#post-2087845

AMPS 279; +3= 121

Question re: human vs. pet meters/strips: Does anyone know whether it is the actual meter - or the test strip - that reads differently in human vs. pet meter? I'm curious because I'm considering getting a pet meter to defray the cost as I do so much testing. However, I have used human meter strips in the AlphaTrak that are the same ones I'd use in the human meter I'm thinking of getting. The Freestyle Lite test strips are extremely close in readings on the AlphaTrak to the actual AlphaTrak test strip numbers. So is it actually the meter itself that reads that same strip differently and then gives a lower cutoff/take action number (50 on human meter) than AlphaTrak (68)?

I do know that many frown on using human meter test strips in the AlphaTrak, but I also know that there are members who have done this. I don't want to make anyone cranky: I'm just curious whether it's the meter that's reading the strip or the test strip itself that gives a different reading and means that one has a different take action number on human meter vs. pet meter. I hope I haven't been too confusing about this...

 

[Girlie's mom]

I read a tip somewhere on here that has help me with that. Do you take the empty syringe and push it up and down for a bit before you draw the dose? It moves the lubrication around and makes it easier to get exactly what you want. If the lubrication is enough, you can turn the plunger like a dial with extremely gentle pressure and twist your way up or down drop by drop. I've also found some syringes are adequately lubricated and others are not.

@Stacy & Asia - thanks for that tip - yes, I do that. It's not that: it's the fact that I only have two hands and I use one to hold the syringe and the other to push the plunger. So how do you all do that with the calipers there as well? Currently, I have sticky tape that allows me to stick the syringe to the insulin ruler and then hold syringe/insulin ruler in one hand and push the plunger to get the correct dose with the other. Doing it this way, I can see the line that I want to hit as I push the plunger. @LizzieInTexas , I'm tagging you here as well as I know you use calipers, too.

With the caliper demos I've seen, though, the caliper is lying on a light table and then one holds the syringe separate from that and gestimates that this might be the right dose and then checks it against the calipers on the light table. If I can't hold the syringe against the calipers as I'm pushing the plunger, I'd see over or understepping the mark repeatedly. How do you get around this? Is there a way you've found to hold the calipers/syringe in one hand while being able to push the plunger in the other in order to get the exact dose? Not sure whether that makes sense - I think I might not have explained that clearly in yesterday's post...

 

[Gill & George]

I imagine it's both.
The meter and strips are coded/calibrated to be used together, that is, specific meters and specific strips.
So for instance you can't use human strips from one manufacture, in a meter (human) belonging to a different manufacturer, and be sure to get an accurate/sensible reading.

 

[LizzieInTexas]

I use the lighted magnifying headset similar to yours. I draw up the insulin and then use the calipers to fine tune. I used to put a paper towel behind when fine tuning but now I just use my finger.

Once you get your measurement figures take a syringe and some colored water (red dye) and practice with a few different measurements. You will get the hang of it. It is the consistency that you are trying for.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

I have used FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter for over 3 years for two FD kitties. I started with a lot of side by side same blood drop comparisons all of which were quite acceptable. I also did FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter before blood work was done at the vets and came very close to what the vet machine results were, From what I have read it is the actual AT2 meter setting that "distinguishes" the reading rather than the strip. When you leave the AT2 meter on a cat code the FS Lite strips "read" the cat reading. As a disclaimer I always do a control test every time I use a new container of FS Lite strips and still do the occasional AT2 strip comparison. Personally I am quite comfortable with using FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter, but I do caution to do your own comparison testing first and do control solution testing when using new containers of strips.

DISCLAIMER: This is MY OWN personal observations.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I have used FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter for over 3 years for two FD kitties. I started with a lot of side by side same blood drop comparisons all of which were quite acceptable. I also did FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter before blood work was done at the vets and came very close to what the vet machine results were, From what I have read it is the actual AT2 meter setting that "distinguishes" the reading rather than the strip. When you leave the AT2 meter on a cat code the FS Lite strips "read" the cat reading. As a disclaimer I always do a control test every time I use a new container of FS Lite strips and still do the occasional AT2 strip comparison. Personally I am quite comfortable with using FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter, but I do caution to do your own comparison testing first and do control solution testing when using new containers of strips.

DISCLAIMER: This is MY OWN personal observations.

Hi Mary Ann!!! Sorry for the highjack.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Hi Mary Ann!!! Sorry for the highjack.

Not a problem...Bubba is looking good. Hope to see another OTJ party for him soon

 

[Stacy & Asia]

With the caliper demos I've seen, though, the caliper is lying on a light table and then one holds the syringe separate from that and gestimates that this might be the right dose and then checks it against the calipers on the light table. If I can't hold the syringe against the calipers as I'm pushing the plunger, I'd see over or understepping the mark repeatedly. How do you get around this? Is there a way you've found to hold the calipers/syringe in one hand while being able to push the plunger in the other in order to get the exact dose? Not sure whether that makes sense - I think I might not have explained that clearly in yesterday's post...

So I draw up a syringe over the dose I need, for the current dose of 1.75, I draw about 2 units (using the syringe markings) to account for air bubbles and whatnot, Then I hold the syringe in one hand and the calipers in the other and see how far off I am, put the calipers down, dial the plunger ever so slightly, measure again. Repeat until you get there. Once you get the hang of it, you do it quite well and you shouldn't over or under guess it very often, it becomes almost a muscle memory thing. Rarely do I push out too much insulin, and if I do, I just draw up a tiny bit more and use the same syringe. Also, I don't use a light table, if it's daytime, I go to a bright window and look at it up against the sky, if it's dark outside, I use the bright kitchen light and look against the white door for our laundry.

 

[Christie & Maverick]

Hi Darrah, I was also using the AT2 with FSL strips occasionally, because the AT2 strips are so expensive. I've read some other posts here about human meters and pet meters, and why they vary, I suspect if you tried to compare a FSL meter, with an AT2 meter reading both FSL strip and AT2 strip, even with the same drop of blood, you'd drive yourself a bit crazy. Throw in the 20% meter variance, and well... that's way too much to process! The pet meter is supposed to be better calibrated for pet blood, but the TR protocol was written using human meters. In the end, I changed to a human meter (FSL) with a once in a while check with AT2, after I did a lot of reading on the forum, and in particular, read this post that was shared with me:

Human and AT2 post by Jill

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but hope it helps a little.

 

[Girlie's mom]

So I draw up a syringe over the dose I need, for the current dose of 1.75, I draw about 2 units (using the syringe markings) to account for air bubbles and whatnot, Then I hold the syringe in one hand and the calipers in the other and see how far off I am, put the calipers down, dial the plunger ever so slightly, measure again. Repeat until you get there. Once you get the hang of it, you do it quite well and you shouldn't over or under guess it very often, it becomes almost a muscle memory thing. Rarely do I push out too much insulin, and if I do, I just draw up a tiny bit more and use the same syringe. Also, I don't use a light table, if it's daytime, I go to a bright window and look at it up against the sky, if it's dark outside, I use the bright kitchen light and look against the white door for our laundry.

That's what I thought, Stacy. I don't think the calipers will work for me: I just know from experience how tricky it is to get an exact dose with the insulin ruler held up against the syringe as I push the plunger. I can't imagine pushing the plunger and guessing and then trying to get a hair's drop more out. In the past, I've gone over the line with the insulin ruler, and I've thrown the syringe away and had to start with a new one. I guess I'll have to just stick with the insulin ruler unless there might be a way to tape the syringe to the caliper so I can read and push the plunger at the same time. It's just too tricky once you get down to these tiny doses; much easier to get doses at higher numbers - even 1 Unit - I've found. Such a pity!

BTW, Asia is looking beautiful today! So many gorgeous greens!

 

[Girlie's mom]

I use the lighted magnifying headset similar to yours. I draw up the insulin and then use the calipers to fine tune. I used to put a paper towel behind when fine tuning but now I just use my finger.

Once you get your measurement figures take a syringe and some colored water (red dye) and practice with a few different measurements. You will get the hang of it. It is the consistency that you are trying for.

The problem is that I need to do both at the same time, unfortunately. I have no problem drawing doses - but I have to see and push the plunger at the same time and see how close to the line I am. I guess calipers won't work for me. Thank you, though, Lizzie!

 

[Girlie's mom]

Hi Darrah, I was also using the AT2 with FSL strips occasionally, because the AT2 strips are so expensive. I've read some other posts here about human meters and pet meters, and why they vary, I suspect if you tried to compare a FSL meter, with an AT2 meter reading both FSL strip and AT2 strip, even with the same drop of blood, you'd drive yourself a bit crazy. Throw in the 20% meter variance, and well... that's way too much to process! The pet meter is supposed to be better calibrated for pet blood, but the TR protocol was written using human meters. In the end, I changed to a human meter (FSL) with a once in a while check with AT2, after I did a lot of reading on the forum, and in particular, read this post that was shared with me:

Human and AT2 post by Jill

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but hope it helps a little.

Hi Christie,
Thank you so much!

She also talks about this in this post, at reply 64, which clarifies that the real difference between the two is in reading the lower numbers. Roomp and Rand spell that out pretty clearly in the Management of Diabetic cats, especially in the tables. I guess what hangs me up is one line in that document:

"In general, with the availability of accurate and precise glucometers calibrated for feline blood, their use is recommended in preference to meters calibrated for human blood because of the greater accuracy for blood glucose measurements around the normoglycemic range.Using meters calibrated for feline blood facilitates the use of target blood glucose concentrations in the normal range reported for cats and avoidssome of the confusion with human meters whether they are reading whole blood or plasma." (page 254)

So I would prefer to use the AT2, all things considered, to be honest, but my Visa card says that spending over $300/week on test strips is not such a good idea if you're not rich...which I'm not!

This probably seems ridiculous - my desire to stick with the AT2 - especially given that I'm in the minority here on FDMB. It just seems more logical to use a meter meant to be used with feline rather than human blood, as clearly, there would be differences. Sigh.

 

[Girlie's mom]

I have used FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter for over 3 years for two FD kitties. I started with a lot of side by side same blood drop comparisons all of which were quite acceptable. I also did FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter before blood work was done at the vets and came very close to what the vet machine results were, From what I have read it is the actual AT2 meter setting that "distinguishes" the reading rather than the strip. When you leave the AT2 meter on a cat code the FS Lite strips "read" the cat reading. As a disclaimer I always do a control test every time I use a new container of FS Lite strips and still do the occasional AT2 strip comparison. Personally I am quite comfortable with using FS Lite strips in the AT2 meter, but I do caution to do your own comparison testing first and do control solution testing when using new containers of strips.

DISCLAIMER: This is MY OWN personal observations.

Hi Mary Ann,
Thanks for that. Quite a while back, I did do side-by-side comparisons for two entire vials of FS Lite and AT2 strips, and the difference between the two was truly marginal - below, for the most part, even the 20% variance range. Only occasionally would I see a noticeable difference. I did use the FS Lite strips for a little while quite some time ago, especially when Girlie was stuck in higher numbers, but stuck with the AT2 for AM/PMPS and times when she was in lower numbers. Unfortunately, Girlie's now in lower numbers much of the time, now (which is great!), so I have to make a choice. Thanks so much for your input, though, Mary Ann.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

@Stacy & Asia - thanks for that tip - yes, I do that. It's not that: it's the fact that I only have two hands and I use one to hold the syringe and the other to push the plunger. So how do you all do that with the calipers there as well? Currently, I have sticky tape that allows me to stick the syringe to the insulin ruler and then hold syringe/insulin ruler in one hand and push the plunger to get the correct dose with the other. Doing it this way, I can see the line that I want to hit as I push the plunger. @LizzieInTexas , I'm tagging you here as well as I know you use calipers, too.

With the caliper demos I've seen, though, the caliper is lying on a light table and then one holds the syringe separate from that and gestimates that this might be the right dose and then checks it against the calipers on the light table. If I can't hold the syringe against the calipers as I'm pushing the plunger, I'd see over or understepping the mark repeatedly. How do you get around this? Is there a way you've found to hold the calipers/syringe in one hand while being able to push the plunger in the other in order to get the exact dose? Not sure whether that makes sense - I think I might not have explained that clearly in yesterday's post...

You have to measure it with the calipers, set the syringe down, squeeze off a tiny amount of insulin, measure with the calipers, etc. I got where I could do it quite fast.

Hi Mary Ann,
Thanks for that. Quite a while back, I did do side-by-side comparisons for two entire vials of FS Lite and AT2 strips, and the difference between the two was truly marginal - below, for the most part, even the 20% variance range. Only occasionally would I see a noticeable difference. I did use the FS Lite strips for a little while quite some time ago, especially when Girlie was stuck in higher numbers, but stuck with the AT2 for AM/PMPS and times when she was in lower numbers. Unfortunately, Girlie's now in lower numbers much of the time, now (which is great!), so I have to make a choice. Thanks so much for your input, though, Mary Ann.

The AT2 and the FS Lite and ships are no longer made by the same company. Let me ask you this....if you were diabetic and you had leftover AT2 strips and a FS Lite meter, would you check your BG like that and trust it?

Regardless of a million tests run side by side, I wouldn’t use human strips in a pet meter. Ever. My meter of preference was an AT2 but for the amount we tested, I just didn’t want to pay that much for strips so I went to a human meter and strips.

You should do what you are most comfortable with. It doesn’t matter if more members use human meters. It’s generally about the cost.