13.08 PORTO AMPS 312, PMPS 461, +4 434, + 6 370

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Manu & Porto

Member Since 2018
yesterday

Porto is still not eating well, doesnt want the venison so I give in and give foods that may upset tummy and BG. He seems alert and well, sleeping with his belly up every time he gets a chance. We have vets app in one hour, Im so nervous, but we have to check those teeth. I hope he doesnt stress too much.
 
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Back from the vet already, they said his mouth cant be the cause for the not eating. This vet saying this, no xray done tho, as he needed sedation for it and I didnt want him on another one. Suffice to say that we looked at his gums 3 times, in detail, they look ok and he said that in the gums, the part that is not visible, he cant have old issues or it would have come out by now and it doesnt appear to have any new ones, no strong inflammation, nothing out of the place except his gingivitis and it doesnt look so bad.
We will have to do with these opinions for now, focus on bude and hope his BG improves slowly.
 
Hi Manu, glad you got to the vet and that they don't think it is from the teeth. If it were a root fragment, they can work themselves out but a left behind root tip, can not work itself out. Will they be doing a cleaning to get rid of the inflammation? (gingivitis)

I hope his tummy feels better soon. It is hard when they don't want to eat. It's a catch 22 when all they will eat is something that will upset their tummy, but he has to eat.
 
I am wondering if it is the food he doesn't like or if it is just the high numbers is making him feel queasy.

Are you thinking of going up in dose again? That 2 units is not moving those numbers at all.
 
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Hi Manu, glad you got to the vet and that they don't think it is from the teeth. If it were a root fragment, they can work themselves out but a left behind root tip, can not work itself out. Will they be doing a cleaning to get rid of the inflammation? (gingivitis)

I hope his tummy feels better soon. It is hard when they don't want to eat. It's a catch 22 when all they will eat is something that will upset their tummy, but he has to eat.

Thank you, Bobbie! In all reality, his teeth are clean, he has no deposits, nothing that would mean cleaning. I just hope, by now, it is not the teeth, all evidence shows other reasons, his IBD and change of diet, most likely.

Today he did eat his venison when we got back from the vet. He was hungry, was fed some wet food and after gotting back from the vet and feeding, we left, left out some venison dey. having no other source of food, he ate a lot of it. So the appetite, it comes and goes...
 
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I am wondering if it is the food he doesn't like or if he is just the high numbers is making him feel queasy.

Are you thinking of going up in dose again? That 2 units is not moving those numbers at all.
Yes, I want to up the dose, but am wondering if it would be allowed to go directly to 2,5 ud, to add 0,5 ud. Or is too dangerous to do this jump?

What would you recommend, what would you do if in our shoes, Tracey? Thank you!!
 
So sorry Porto isn't feeling well still :( I hope he is just being picky! There are a lot of picky eaters around here. I like Tracey's idea of trying to switch up the food every once in a while when he doesn't seem interested in the venison. But you said other foods upset his stomach?

And as for dose, I am new to this as of this year so take my advice with a grain of salt, but you test so often that I think you can handle the Tight Regulation Protocol (there's also the Start Low Go Slow protocol). Have you looked at the protocols for Lantus? I don't see one in your signature line. With TR, you would have been able to increase Porto yesterday to 2.25.

Check out Shmee's spreadsheet, we started following TR 03/18/18. Back then he was on appetite stimulants because he would hardly eat at all. He slowly but surely got a better appetite and better BG numbers :)
 
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Hello Amanda! Thank you so much for your reply and suggestions, we are trying to switch proteins for Porto, and tastes and textures andit seems budesonide is finally allowing it to happen, without too much repercution. Yesterday his poo was alright, no issues, praying it keeps going the same.
The reason we are on SLGS and not TR is because we are not on very low carb food, and wet, we are still mixing wet with dry, still trying to find a low carb diet that would work and that he would eat without issues. I thought that is one of the main conditions for choosing TR protocol, to switch to all wet, very low carbs.
We would very much like to increase but need to wait those 7 days...
 
I am tagging Wendy - she has more experience than I do when using budesonide. @Wendy&Neko

He has been high with a high yellow nadir since starting the budesonide and having 2 units. The depot is stabilized now There is dry in the mix but if that is not going to change overnight or at all, then you need to dose for the situation now with keeping it mind if the dry taken out of the rotation. You have more than enough testing in to see how his cycles will look overall (until he decides to change it as you know he is a cat after all) It would be tempting to go up by .5 units. I have never done that though.

Another option that I have used with Jones is not wait the full 7 days but waited only 4 days to do an 0.25u increase when we have gone up in dose on the prednisolone, knowing I was trying to offset that affect with all other factors being the same (insert laughter here as Jones never allows things to stay the same).


Do you feel comfortable with knowing how Porto will react and how his cycles tend to ride out?
 
I am tagging Wendy - she has more experience than I do when using budesonide. @Wendy&Neko

He has been high with a high yellow nadir since starting the budesonide and having 2 units. The depot is stabilized now There is dry in the mix but if that is not going to change overnight or at all, then you need to dose for the situation now with keeping it mind if the dry taken out of the rotation. You have more than enough testing in to see how his cycles will look overall (until he decides to change it as you know he is a cat after all) It would be tempting to go up by .5 units. I have never done that though.

Another option that I have used with Jones is not wait the full 7 days but waited only 4 days to do an 0.25u increase when we have gone up in dose on the prednisolone, knowing I was trying to offset that affect with all other factors being the same (insert laughter here as Jones never allows things to stay the same).


Do you feel comfortable with knowing how Porto will react and how his cycles tend to ride out?

Thank you, Tracey!

Porto never had huge, sudden drops, at least none that I discovered with my testing, except the ones following a vomit or Diarrea. That is what I gathered from all the testing with him. The vet said I may be mistaken and those vomits and Diarreas could be caused by increase in insulin but I doubt it is so. It may also be that, him not being on a diet that worked with his IBD, or on any meds, causing vomits/diarrea, caused the BG to drop during a flare thus forcing a dose drop that got us to 1,5 ud again, and 400 smth values on it, when his tummy would get better.
I am confident with raising a bit more the dose, or faster, Im at home in his peaks and could test and feed HC if needed, now that we have the budesonide protecting a bit against vomits and diarrea caused by HC gravy foods, which almost all contain chicken or stuff that would have caused diarrea before.
Ziwi peaks dry is not so palatable so I cant blame him for not wating to eat it, the only viable option and introducing right now is Virbac Digestive, with low carbs for a digestive food, it has 17% DM carbs compared to Ziwi that has 7% DM. It contains chicken also but is main protein is pork. We need to switch to this dry, will leave ziwi for when he is hungry, aas we need him to eat, to gather some calories and the virbac one has those, id feed only 25 gr and the rest, use wet. Ordered 7% carbs wet, today, by tomorrow we can introduce and see, his other wet, ziwi, had 20% carbs. His diet always changing, leaves little room for regulating but we want to get there. The way I see it now, we are forced to give a higher carbs food dry even if the wet would be lower, I think this change will elevate the BG even more, adding the bude to the equation, we need an increase badly.

How is Jones doing? I saw he decided to go swim with the sharks recently :)
 
I am confident with raising a bit more the dose, or faster, Im at home in his peaks and could test and feed HC if needed

That is good. I would wait for second opinion from Wendy but if it was me, like I said with Jones, I go up a bit quicker. Sometimes he proved me wrong with needing a reduction but then you drop and wait to see if it sticks are not.

How is Jones doing? I saw he decided to go swim with the sharks recently

Yes, yesterday. I guess his turkey only diet is really taking affect. His BG's have dropped which I believe is due to the reduced inflammation. Now if I could get his poop consistent and him pooping in the litter box!
 
That is good. I would wait for second opinion from Wendy but if it was me, like I said with Jones, I go up a bit quicker. Sometimes he proved me wrong with needing a reduction but then you drop and wait to see if it sticks are not.



Yes, yesterday. I guess his turkey only diet is really taking affect. His BG's have dropped which I believe is due to the reduced inflammation. Now if I could get his poop consistent and him pooping in the litter box!

That is so great, that the diet is working for him! Is it turkey meat you are giving? Can?
I am really glad it works for Jones, I also noticed he will go for a check up on the weight, I hope he gains a bit with this turkey diet that goes well for him! :bighug:
 
I agree with Tracey on dose. Given the lowest you have seen is high yellows, you've held the dose five days, budesonide has been added into the picture, and the amount you test, you could go up sooner, or even by a larger amount. However, if you do increase by 0.5, you will have to make sure you do it when you can monitor closely. Note to any lurkers, this suggestion is for Manu and Porto only.

I can't remember if we've talked about buying plain meat and adding a premix to make it a complete food for Porto. That way you can try other proteins, like maybe rabbit or lamb or pork.
 
I agree with Tracey on dose. Given the lowest you have seen is high yellows, you've held the dose five days, budesonide has been added into the picture, and the amount you test, you could go up sooner, or even by a larger amount. However, if you do increase by 0.5, you will have to make sure you do it when you can monitor closely. Note to any lurkers, this suggestion is for Manu and Porto only.

I can't remember if we've talked about buying plain meat and adding a premix to make it a complete food for Porto. That way you can try other proteins, like maybe rabbit or lamb or pork.

Thank you, Wendy! Sorry for the delayed reply, Ive run into some issues with the cat colony I am feeding and caring on the side, so was up until late last night trying to catch a small kitten that appeared hurt.
I will up the dose tonight, to 2.5 ud, and check and test to make sure all goes alright.
I am having a hard time finding a pharmacy that prepares budesonide for pet use. I may have to keep on dosing at home, which is a huge set back for a longer term use for us, especially since Ive read there are a lot of dangerous in handling budesonide out of the capsule, i am always washing my hands before and after, the cups I use to divide, but it is still risky, I think. Apparently, the pharmacy here can only re-dose the capsule, into smaller dosage capsule, but can not transform or change the excipients. The budesonide here, the 3 mg form, contains sucrose and other stuff, not in big amounts but maybe enough to cause increase to his BG which would have to still be there. They also said that the capsule will not be absorbed by the tract of my cat, being gastro resistant, only 10% of the budesonide, maybe. Ive been giving for almost a week now, with my home dosing, and his intolerance to food has improved immensely so they are being absorbed and working, no doubt. Nobody in Spain has worked with pets and budesonide, the pharmacies are looking and treating me like some sort of alien, for wanting this for my cat. I have the vet recipe, and everything, even so, they seem to have it difficult. I am curious, there, how do they prepare the compounded form? Is it still gastro resistant for late release? I just hope I am doing what is right, for him, and when decided to administer this form, didnt put him at risk...
 
I am giving him Rawz Turkey, Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient and I fry some ground turkey breast (made into little meat balls) and use those as treats. Not sure if these are options for you but provided the links.


http://rawznaturalpetfood.com/cat/rendered-free-cat-food/turkey-turkey-liver-pate/

https://www.instinctpetfood.com/cat...ct-limited-ingredient-diet-real-turkey-recipe

Oh, Tracey, this food looks great, high quality, even Id eat it :D
I wish I could have access to this food, seems good for them. I am glad it is working for him, Jones deserves the best! For sure it would have helped my Porto if I had access to it.
 
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