13/04 Frodo from Australia new member.

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Frodo2012

Frodo2012

Member Since 2020
Hi guys.
Thanks for the add.

My big fella is pretty unwell at the moment. Pancreatitis and newly diagnosed diabetes.

Feeling the struggle with getting him to eat. He hasn't really eaten a full meal independently for 2 weeks. I have changed him off his prescription weight loss food to royal canin diabetic food. Part dry part wet. He was a rescue kitty and was only fed biccies so trying to transition to a wet and eventually raw diet. Due to the pancreatitis he is super nauseous and not wanting to eat. However, i need him to eat for both his health and so i can administer insulin.
He is on lantus 3u 2xdaily. Numbers swinging between 31.3 this morning to 12 in middle of day, but as low as 4.1 yesterday.
I know this is a process and takes some time to stabilise. Just wanting an idea of how much he really needd to eat for the insulin..he is usually eating about 1/4 of his food no problem.... is it worth the struggle to get him to eat more.
I am home testing on the alpha track 2, at the moment 4hrly.
Also read about spreadsheets you guys use on the forum... how do i make that?
Feelung a little overwhelmed right now. But dont know if i can be doing more.
 
Hi there! & Welcome to the best place (in the world IMHO) to help you and your kitty!

I haven't had to deal with pancreatitis in a long, long time but there are a lot of very experienced, knowledgeable members here that have dealt with this and will be along soon to help.

Ask any and all questions you may have. That's what we're all here for. We truly want to help.

//Shelley
 
Hello and welcome!!!!

FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

Now, as to your other questions... Yes, it's important that he eats. Did the vet give you any medications for nausea or pain from the pancreatitis? Good anti-nausea meds for cats include Cerenia and Zofran (ondansetron) (they may be known by other brand names in Australia-- tagging @Bron and Sheba (GA) for insights). It's also important to deal with pain, as pancreatitis can be extremely painful and that alone can make them not want to eat. Is he sitting in a "meatloaf" position, or does he react if you touch his flank/belly area?

3U is a high starting dose for Lantus, and 4.1 is close to "too low" on an AlphaTrak. Once you get your spreadsheet set up (let us know if you have questions/problems!) and we can see the data, we may have some more detailed observations about that.

There's probably better (and cheaper!) food than the Royal canin, possibly will be more appetising for Frodo, too! I think Bron (who I tagged above) made a list of good foods available in Australia/NZ, but I can't find it now.

That's all for now. Again, welcome to you and Frodo to the best place you never wanted to be!
 
Hi and welcome to you and Frodo. What a gorgeous boy. Is he a Burmese?
I live in Australia....Sydney.
It is overwhelming in the beginning and more so if your kitty is sick as well.

If he has had pancreatitis, and is nauseated, he is going to need antinausea medications such as cerenia and ondansetron for a while. Some cats get over it quickly but others can take a while. A nauseated cat won’t eat, so the first thing you need to do is get the antinausea tablets.
Ask the vet for some cerenia tablets to bring home and also ask for a script for ondansetron (called Zofran here in Australia). It is a human antinausea drug and the vet doesn’t carry it but it works well in cats and works on a different Pathway to the cerenia and can be given at the same time as the cerenia. You can get the zofran from the chemist...costs about $20.
The cerenia is given once a day and the ondansetron can be given 8 hourly and can be given with cerenia.
The dose of the zofran is usually 2 mg. The zofran comes in 4 mg wafers. Your vet may not have heard of them....my vet hadn’t but he researched it and then wrote me a script.

Cats with pancreatitis can also be dehydrated. Check his gums to see if they are slippery or tacky. Also if the scruff of his neck slides back quickly or slowly.

Did the vet give you anything for pain? Pancreatitis is painful.

How long ago was he diagnosed with diabetes? 3 units is a lot to start with.
We recommend starting with around 1 unit of insulin.
Starting off at 31 and dropping to 4.1 is going to produce bouncing from high numbers, down to low numbers and then back up to high numbers.
If you can get the spreadsheet set up and enter your data we will be able to help you a lot. I can see you are looking at the SS. If you have any trouble setting it up, just yell and we will help you, no problem.

Also if you could set up your signature...only takes 5 mins and it will appear at the bottom of all your posts and will tell us about Frodo.
Go to the top right of this page and under your username look for signature. Click on it and tell us yours and Frodo’s name, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, and meter, Type of food, any other illnesses and press save. Done!

The best food to feed is a low carb wet food, with carbs under 10%. Most use ones with carbs around 4-7%.
There is a list of suitable ones in Australia in the link I am going to send you at the end of this post.
There is no need to use the prescription foods which are not only expensive and most cats won’t eat them, but they are nothing special and do not contain anything special for diabetics and are mostly much higher carb..
I would recommend you get rid of the dry food if you can....at this point the most important thing is he eats so any food he will eat is ok, but eventually it will be much better to get off the dry. But when you do, you need to be aware that the BGs will drop a lot as you take away the dry which is high carb, and you will need to adjust the insulin dose.

With the food, are you feeding before the shots? We recommend you test first (always test before every shot to make sure it is safe to shoot), then feed then shoot. Lantus is a long acting insulin so you don’t need to feed all the food at once. I would offer food at shot time and the +2, +4 and +6 and after that if he is not eating enough. The onset of Lantus is usually around +2 so a snack around then is a good idea.

I would reduce the dose of the Lantus back to 1.5 Units twice a day, providing he has not had ketones at all.
You mentioned he was a big boy. What does he weigh?.
Did the vet mention ketones at all to you at diagnosis?
I would buy a bottle of ketostix from a chemist and test the urine for ketones while he is unwell and unregulated.
Ketones can form when there is not enough food, not enough insulin and an infection or inflammation and can lead to keto acidosis which is much more serious. So testing for ketones is an easy way to keep him safe. I don’t want to frighten you, just make you aware of how to help Frodo and keep him safe.

If I haven’t answered everything, tell me. Ask lots of questions, we are happy to help.
Here is the link about things available here in Australia. There are useful links within this link.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/information-for-aussie-feline-diabetic-caregivers.217781/
Bron
 
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Frodo seems to have balanced a little. He has started to eat. So hopefully not in so much pain from the pancreatitis. Hopefully that is starting to resolve itself. Trying to find food that he will eat is the next hard step. Turns out, he is a picky eater lol. Hei s playing more and bloods seem to be around the 5-10 mark.
 

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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Kristina, lovely to get an update on Frodo.
The photo is adorable!
Can’t see your SS yet. Did you speak to Chris about it?
Click to expand...

I cant seem to get it on yet.
Kinda dropped the ball on the SS. Between managing his diabetes, working fulltime, assignment for uni and single mum homeschooling i have kinda just been tracking on a piece of paper. My sister is a holistic vet and has been along for the ride.
We npw have him down to 1u lantus and he is balanced beteeen 4.5 and 6.8 throughout the day. No longer running full curves for the day, just doing pre shoots unless something changes with eating or behaviour.
 
Frodo2012 said:
I cant seem to get it on yet.
Kinda dropped the ball on the SS. Between managing his diabetes, working fulltime, assignment for uni and single mum homeschooling i have kinda just been tracking on a piece of paper. My sister is a holistic vet and has been along for the ride.
We npw have him down to 1u lantus and he is balanced beteeen 4.5 and 6.8 throughout the day. No longer running full curves for the day, just doing pre shoots unless something changes with eating or behaviour.
Click to expand...

Yes I bet its tough at the moment with all the changes in our lives? Glad to hear that Frodo is doing well. How is the pancreatitis now?
I would encourage you to get at least one test in during the cycles to see how low the dose it taking Frodo as the dosing of Lantus is based on the lowest point in the cycle not the preshot. Also a before bed test will tell you if Frodo is likely to drop lower at night. If the before bed test is lower than the preshot it might be wise to get up later and test to see he head to dropped too low.

If you let @Chris & China (GA) do your SS she will set it up in less than 5 minutes flat. It would be really good to see his numbers on a SS.
Bron.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes I bet its tough at the moment with all the changes in our lives? Glad to hear that Frodo is doing well. How is the pancreatitis now?
I would encourage you to get at least one test in during the cycles to see how low the dose it taking Frodo as the dosing of Lantus is based on the lowest point in the cycle not the preshot. Also a before bed test will tell you if Frodo is likely to drop lower at night. If the before bed test is lower than the preshot it might be wise to get up later and test to see he head to dropped too low.
.
Click to expand...

Hey :)
Thanks again.
He is eating more now... and hasnt vomited in about a week. So i am hoping the pancreatitis has resolved.
The 4.5/4.6 has been consistently his low point between +4 and +8.. his numbers pre shoot are around the mid 6's.. we tested hourly for a week to gauge where his low point is and it was about +6hrs.. Funnily enough. As he is not eating a lot though he is grazing throughout the day eating bigger portions at shoot time, but smaller snack offered at +4 to graze on through low points.
Almost kicked over completely to a combination of fancy feast pate (much to my vet sisters annoyance) and raw.
 
I’m glad Frodo is doing well, eating and not vomiting any more. Fingers crossed.
BGs change frequently so will probably not stay as they are now. You will need to keep testing to keep Frodo safe.
Its really hard to comment much without seeing a SS.
 
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