12/31 Zeke Shoot or Stall? - Too Late +13.75 = 69

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MrZ

MrZ

Member Since 2013
Good morning LL,
Healing vines to all that need them.
Well, the verdict on the 1.0 reducie is still out. Things that are delaying/complicating things is the one day reduced dose to 0.5u given 2 days ago and my feeding Zeke 12% in the PM cycle last night. Going forward, I will stick with the plan of feeding no higher than 7% to prevent huge dives and hopefully flatten him out. At first glance it appears (to me) we have a rising tend going on with this dose. However, I feel as if I've not yet seen the true effectiveness of this dose for a fair evaluation. I do not want to hold a failed reduction longer than necessary but I suppose I need to give this dose more time. Hopefully he'll stop spiking above 200, his numbers will start to improve overall and the greens will return soon. The question in the back of my mind - how long should I wait to see if that will happen?

Zeke's Yesterday
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke AMPS 247; +1.25 = 258

When you shot the reduced doses, the cycle count starts over from the time you increased to f1u. I'd give him a minimum of six cycles and if he gets to low blue or green, ten. He looks to me like he's bouncing off all those blues but Zeke can be up at AMPS and +2 and back in blue by mid cycle.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice

At +8.5 he was 124. Now at PMPS he's 95. My DH fed him less than 1 tsp so if I stall I won't know whether or not he's going up because of the food. Do you think I can shoot?
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

Darn it. Was going ahead, figured he was flat,. Just feed him a little more. Should I go?
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

What is he now? There won't be many people around to help so you might want to skip or shoot a reduced dose.
Wendy
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

He's 85. What should I do? He ate about 1/2T so if he goes up I won't know whether or not it's entirely food. I'll be home and have supplies.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

I would skip or shoot a reduced dose. Or stall longer. My concern is nobody will be around to help if he does drop low.

Wendy
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

I would add that You Know Best of how well he responds to food.... if he goes low and needs boosting.
Zeke looks like he's definitely hit his breakthrough dose and starting to work his way down.
You just don't know for sure how much momentum he'll have.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

I've gotten him through quite a few lows on my own. I could stall an hour easily or more. It's just the food factor that I'm not sure about. He ate about a 1/2T about 15 minutes ago. I just want to make sure he's not dropping on his own. Maybe wait until he's up around what, 110?
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

So if he's hit his breakthrough dose, how much would skipping impact his progress? Would it be best to skip or go ahead and shoot and if he's dropping (potentially have to) load him up with gravy/syrup/HC many hours tonight?
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

20%.. So 110 is good.

If you stall an hour (no more food) you should know what's going on and if you can shoot, especially since you didn't feed that much.

But to be on the safe side, your vet is open tonite right? And you have lots strips and HC and syrup? I just find if there is going to be shenanigans, it's when everything is closed!

Wendy
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

Wendy&Tiggy said:
20%.. So 110 is good.

If you stall an hour (no more food) you should know what's going on and if you can shoot, especially since you didn't feed that much.

But to be on the safe side, your vet is open tonite right?
Wendy
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I don't have a vet I can count on tonight. It would have to be ER Clinic. If he goes up to 110, really what's the likelihood it will come to that? But, if skipping won't set him back, then I would rather do that (skip) than have him on a glucose drip for hours tonight.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

I'm with the stalling a bit more too. Its not like the shed is really full, you had a reduced dose a few cycles back.
I think you'll be shooting here in a bit.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

I do have plenty of supplies HC/Gravy/syrup/strips.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

If I stall, it will already be like a reduction so is there any reason to reduce the dose even more?
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

Ok so let's stall. I suspect he will either shoot up or stay flat. And you have supplies.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

Working on getting a reading. It's been over 30 minutes since the 84. Having trouble getting his ear to bleed. Too darn cold. Will try again within 15 minutes.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

Wasn't a big blood sample but it registered a 99. Good to go you think or wait a little more?
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

Give it another 30. If he is up again then I would shoot. Definately get a +2 if you do and remember that tomorrow you shoot 12 hours from this shot.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Need Advice - Shoot or Stall?

Wendy&Tiggy said:
Give it another 30. If he is up again then I would shoot.
Click to expand...

Could you please define "up"? That darn meter variance always throws me off as to whether up,down or flat.
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Shoot or Stall? -Too Late 69

Well, I guess I'll have to skip. Have tested him twice. He's at 69. I guess he dropped because he hasn't eaten since 10:00 am. Is that what happened?
 
Re: 12/31 Zeke PMPS - Shoot or Stall? -Too Late 69

Or he was dropping and the little amount of food raised him a bit. So feed him and skip the shot. Tomorrow ask the forum if he needs a decease.

Have a great New Years!

Wendy
 
Happy New Year to you too, Wendy. I'm so thankful you were here to help me with this. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
 
yes, this is pretty typical to what happens when you stall. Stalling is great for the newbie that isn't sure what will happen with numbers when they wait, but one time stalling is probably enough for data-gathering. Most people find that it's most successful to just shoot on schedule and deal with it if you get low numbers. There's an equally good chance that instead of low numbers, you'll have a flatter cycle.

what's your no-shoot number, laura? typically we say that everything over 60 that you see at +12 is shootable, unless it's a continually dropping number. He did clear a bounce today, but that was probably more like at am+4 when he got down to 114. He's really been flat since then. You've got enough data and experience that you probably can shoot fairly low. Doing so gives you an opportunity to flatten out the cycle.

I think a great first tactic when you are uncertain about whether or not to shoot, is to refer to the Low Numbers sticky. Libby's got a lot in there for a person to consider when making the decision.

Now that you're 2 hrs off schedule, you're probably just as well to skip the shot and you could shoot early in the morning if you want to. Chalk it up to experience - there will be another opportunity for you to try shooting low again! :YMHUG:
 
just saw the last 2 posts - i don't think he was dropping. he dropped earlier, but he's been flat for about 8 hrs.

I also wouldn't reduce the dose. There's nothing here that says the dose is too high. Remember your dosing decisions are made by the nadir and he didn't get under 50.
 
So what I'm understanding you to say is that I should not have stalled. Is that correct? Then I shouldn't care whether he's dropping or not? If that's the case, what's the point of taking a +10 or +11 - just shoot whatever and deal with whatever you get.

At 6:07 I posted:

MrZ said:
Darn it. Was going ahead, figured he was flat,. Just feed him a little more. Should I go?
Click to expand...

Guess, I should have gone. It wasn't the number that gave me pause, it was that I wasn't 100% sure what to do if he was dropping as he tends to drop early (and fast). Well, now I know - I will shoot anything greater than 50.
 
It's always better to be safe than sorry. Especially when there is no one around to help. Hindsight is 20/20 and he did drop more than meter error of 20%. And looking at prior instances recently when he was kinda flat green he did drop low later.

Tomorrow you can shoot on your normal schedule.

Wendy
 
It sounds like you're irritated - I was just trying to answer your question when you asked if the final drop to 69 was because you stalled.

What I'm saying is that from the nadir to the preshot he was essentially flat - you had 115 at +4, 116 at +5.25 and 95 at +12. Yes, he had a rise at +8 to 124, so that could look like dropping to +12, but overall, i'd call the second half of this cycle pretty flat.

The other "flat" that would've said it's ok to shoot was a 95 at +12 and 99 at +13.

I'm certainly not scolding you for stalling or anything. I was just trying to explain my thinking. In everything FD there seems to be another opportunity to do things again, so if you understand what you're looking for and what happened when you did something last time, it helps you make a decision the next time.

I'm also not saying you should shoot everything over 50, but the post that Libby wrote on how to deal with low preshots will be invaluable in helping you when you're faced with the decision another time.

Nothing lost by skipping and some good information gathered on how Zeke responded tonight.

Hope you're having a good New Year's Eve.
 
Ok...not jumping on a bandwagon but I agree with Julie.

Here's what I wrote in your condo on 12/28:
For someone experienced like you with your data, I think you could have shot at +12 and fed. I think Sienne was advising you to stall because you expressed worry about shooting a dropping number in light of the last time.

Shooting dropping numbers (above 50) allows you to take advantage of overlap and carryover. Also, it allows you to feed and let the numbers come up again. I've seen some members stall so long that the number became unshootable. If they had shot at the first number, they could fed, numbers would come up a bit, and they wouldn't have had to skip. Again....this is for members that have been here a while, have a lot of data, and test like you do.

I think with Zeke's propensity to drop early, it is wise for you to think about a number would would NOT want to shoot if it was dropping and that it might be worthwhile to stall.
Click to expand...

I'd have shot even knowing it was a little food influenced. You know how to handle low numbers.

I do know it's hard to know what to do in the moment especially when others are suggesting you stall. They are doing the best they can because they don't know Zeke or that you've stalled before and everyone will always go for safety first.

Try to have a good night. Happy New Year :-D
 
Is Zeke better off if we skip tonight and stay on schedule or go ahead and shoot now and just take the next six days to get him back on schedule?
 
It depends on your schedule. If you can be off two hours, and he hasn't dropped more or eaten a lot of food and you can stay up to monitor him, you can choose to shoot. Because you've delayed the shot, it might act as a dose reduction but so will skipping and you see how he did with that...he barely missed a beat.

It really comes down to how flexible your schedule is.
 
i think that's probably a matter of which works best for you and your life.

it won't hurt him to skip (think fur shot) but if you've fed him and you want to shoot, you probably could.

do you have an updated number?
 
Well he'd be off 3.5 hours. He's up to 81 at +13.5. I've been slowly been feeding him 2% LC. I think he's now just on his 2nd Tablespoon.
 
BTW, the value in the +10/+11 is to know if he is dropping and how fast. If I think Gracie is clearing a bounce or she's been running lower, I like to get a +10. She's on levemir and she tends to drop into her nadir after +10.
 
Don't know why but I don't get it. I thought the message tonight was even if he's dropping I should shoot. Do you stall?
 
I don't stall unless she gives me a number below 50. Then I give her a small bit of LC, retest in 30 and shoot because that always brings her up.

Gracie is on levemir and so her nadir is usually +12 or after so I'm almost always shooting a lower number unless she's bouncing. If I test at +10 and she's lower (70 or less) I usually give her a tiny snack because she can drop a lot between +10 and +12 and since that is close to her nadir, I need to be able to shoot.

But for you and Zeke, the +10/+11 will let you know if you are shooting a dropping number or a second dip.

A dropping number is when the BG started coming down from the earlier PS and just keeps sliding so the lowest number is at the current PS. If you have experience, data, supplies, and the PS is above 50, you can shoot and take advantage of carryover and overlap to keep the nice numbers. By knowing if he's dropping, you can be prepared to handle low numbers because he might keep dropping after you shoot.

A second dip is when the kitty nadirs, the BG comes up a bit, and then dips towards the end of the cycle but the BG is not lower than the nadir. Second dips (above 50) are generally very shootable because the kitty is at the end of the cycle and will likely head up after the PS and then onset again around +2/+3.

And having some +1 data tells you whether he gets a food spike. We know Zeke often does not.
 
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