12/29 Blackie pmps 308 +4 359 update

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Ele & Blackie (GA)

Ele & Blackie (GA)

Member Since 2009
Good Morning, LL
I am still struggling to get Blackie to eat consistently. I've lost count of how many open cans of cat food are in the fridge. The only thing he has liked consistently is the Fancy Feast Medleys, so I've been feed that when he won't eat anything else even though the carbs are 10%. I tried Merrick Cowboy Cookout which he used to like and he only licked a little. I did get supplements in him this am by syringe feeding the rest of the Merrick. At least he's not throwing up, but the eating thing is so worrying. He will eat the Halo FD Chicken treats and it helps to sprinkle a little dust on food, but again that isn't consistent either.

The bupe didn't seem to be a good thing. It made him very spacy and sleepy and he didn't want to eat. It was supposed to work the opposite. :sad: I'm not going to give anymore until I talk to the vet. I think I'm going to ask about other pain med choices. I can tell by the way Blackie stands that his elbows are bothering him.

Blackie is still pooing and peeing normally and he's still cleaning himself. Other than the not eating, he doesn't seem that different than normal. He goes between the kitchen and living room and jumps on the couch. And yesterday he did go outside for a bit. I wish I knew what to do.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie amps 235 +2 196

I'm so sorry Blackie is having trouble.

Maverick was prescribed tramadol when he had a bad flareup. I think this was because it was easier to prescribe.

Regarding his feeding setups... have you modified this to be easier for him? Maverick has hind end arthritis - we have carpeted doggie stairs built in three rooms so he can get up on the couch and bed. But we had to build him a raised feeding/water station so he could eat sitting upright. He wouldn't crouch to eat. Maybe a flat station if he has a raised one right now?

Glad he isn't vomiting anymore.

Sometimes food is the best appetite stimulant. I wouldn't syringe feed a food you want him to eat to avoid food aversion. But what about syringing him a couple syringes of food and then putting food in front of him and see if priming the engine worked.

Just some ideas. Sending hugs.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie amps 235 +2 196

I'm so sorry about Blackie not feeling well, I sure hope the vet can do something for him. His +2 looks great though. Sending good vines your way
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie amps 235 +2 196 +4 38

Blackie ate some FF Medley 10% and I gave him 1.5 ml of karo. Right now he's eating some 18% Senior Friskies. I'm just thankful that he's eating something.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie amps 235 +2 196

Hi Ele. I stopped over here to check because I didn't see any reference to litterbox habits on your Health thread. Looks like he's going normally, good.

Nevertheless, were abdominal x-rays done to rule out any sort of obstruction?

I saw your post on the CRF list last night, and Maureen had pointed out the elevated GGT and liver enzymes. I agree with her, and I'd want to rule out pancreatitis.

Re: testing for pancreatitis, could your vet be confusing the fPLI with the fTLI? The latter has been around longer, but is not reliable - some vets still confuse the two. See this link http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresources/pd ... s-cats.pdf - the overall sensitivity (ability to detect pancreatitis) of the fPLI test is pretty good at 67% (100% in severe pancreatitis), and the overall specificity (ability to rule out pancreatitis) of the fPLI test is 91% (67% in symptomatic cats).
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie amps 235 +2 196 +4 38 +4.5 35 +4.75 39 Hel

Is it very stressful to take Blackie to the vet? If not, I would take him just for your own peace of mind. Have you tried sprinkling some FortiFlora on his food? If you don't have any, you can get it at your vet's. Sienne says that it tastes good to cats and encourages them to eat.
A dose decrease seems to be in order.

Blackie, we want you to eat your food and to feel better.

Hugs and vines to you (and your mamabean, too),

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +2 196 +4 38 +4.5 35 +4.75 39 +5 37 Help

I called the vet, but he was in surgery. The vet tech relayed that as long as Blackie seems okay to keep giving karo until we get the numbers up. I gave temptations at the 39 and the 37 and 2 ml karo at +5.25. I've also been syringing 18% gravy.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +2 196 +4 38 +4.5 35 +4.75 39 +5 37 Help

Ele, I would give him some more karo, try to get him up out of the 30s, syringe feed him if you have to. As long as he is acting ok, I wouldn't think you need to take him to the vet...but of course, use your judgement!

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time with him not eating. I think WCF gave you some good info, I have no experience with this type of problem.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38 +4.5 35 +4.75 39 +5 37 +5.5 39

Hi, I am sorry Blackie is not feeling well :?
I have a different opinion here, I think you SHOULD take him to the Vet - besides the low #s, he is clearly not Ok & you are concerned and a vet visit can help ease things. I don't want to tell you what to do, but I really think Blackie needs to get some expert eyes on him too :YMHUG: (((Ele)))
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38 +4.5 35 +4.75 39 +5 37 +5.5 39 +6 42

Cmon blackie! Go up!
Hang in ele, you are doing great.
Call the vet back if you need to and don't hesitate to bring him in.
Did they give you a time frame? He has been pretty low for a while.
How is he?
How are YOU
((Ele))
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38 +4.5 35 +4.75 39 +5 37 +5.5 39 +6 42

just want to quickly say we're holding you and blackie close in our hearts, ele.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38 +4.5 35 +4.75 39 +5 37 +5.5 39 +6 42

Hang in there Ele. Is there anything he really likes, chicken human tuna? Come on Blackie! Eat!
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38...+5 37 +5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50

Please update when you can.

I'm wondering whether an appetite stimulant (cyproheptadine or mirtazepine) is in order. Bupe will not increase appetite. It reduces pain and makes a kitty a bit stoned. It's an opiate.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38...+5 37 +5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +7.25

We switched from the cyproheptadine to mirtazepine on Monday. The Mirt seemed to work Monday night, but Blackie started refusing food again last night. I talked to the vet about switching from 1/4 tab every 3rd day to 1/8 tab every other day and he said ok. So I gave 1/8 tab at the +7.25 today. I'm going to make this liver shake this afternoon: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30432

I have been in tears off and on all morning. I don't know what to do to make Blackie better. With the holiday coming up, I'm especially worried.

(eta) Blackie has been eating Temptations and it is currently the only thing he's been eating. I gave him 9 of them at the +7.25 and he also got some at +4.5, +4.75 and +5. I'm very tempted to break out the kibble and see if he'll eat that. I also emailed the vet about prednisone.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38...+5 37 +5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +7.25

Are you taking him to the Vet today? Please do :YMSIGH: (((Ele))) (((Blackie)))
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +7.25 46 +7.7

Does Blackie push back with assist feeding? It is a great tool to get you through periods of inappetance and while you get diagnoses. I know you are doing it currently. ((((((Blackie))))) Sending lots of hugs for you both. Let me know if you have any questions about assist feeding. We syringe fed Maverick for months this year when we switched him from kibble to wet food. He also had a feeding tube for 10 weeks in 2008.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +7.25 46 +7.7

I bet you are so relieved to see him in the 60's. I know I am
(((Ele)))
He is in such great hands! Is your dh home to offer you a little support in real time?

Are you considering steroids for pain mgmt or appetite? I'm sure you are aware how they *might* affect bg,s, among other things. Not agreeing or disagreeing with the option. Just making sure you are getting info you need to make the best decisions for blackie. Also, It would be prednisOLONE, not prednisone you want to use.

I hope the mirtz helps as you work to figure out the next plan of action. I still lean toward pancreatitis test and ultrasound. Knowledge is power. If you don't know what's going on, it makes symptoms very difficult to manage.

Will keep trying to check in, but working tonight...

More hugs. ((Ele))
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +4 38...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +7.25 46 +7.7

Thank you everyone for your support. I am breathing again, but will keep checking him. Yes, Carolyn, I told the vet prednisolone, but I doubt he has it in his office. And I was thinking about it for the appetite. Blackie was on prednisone before we started home testing and he didn't have any problems. Do you think b-12 injections would help? He's already getting methylcobalamine orally.

I'm going to try to have a conversation with my vet this afternoon. Then if I don't get anywhere, I think I'll call our old vet and see if I can get Blackie in on Monday for a full workup including u/s. In my post on Health, Gator suggested I get a full GI panel too.

(eta) DH is at work today, but he came home at lunch and got to see me in tears. He's supportive, but helpless like me.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

Blackie vomited everything at +8.5. It also looks like he peed on himself. I checked bg and it was 116. I called the vet and I'm taking him in at 4:20 (+10.5),
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

Thinking positive thoughts for Blackie. I hope the vet can get to the bottom of this. (((((((Ele)))))))
Many hugs to you all,
Ella

Do you think that all the Temptations might have upset his stomach?
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

(((ele))) glad you're taking him in.
please ask your vet to humor you by doing the fpli. pancreatitis needs to be ruled out.

i'll be back a little later to offer some ideas for getting blackie to eat. i went through something similar with alex earlier this year. i can feel your frustration and worry... it's all very familiar to me.

update us when you can, k?

ETA: were any abdominal xrays or an ultrasound done?
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

Ele, I'd ask to have x-rays done. It may not show anything, but that's fine, we want to rule out what it's not. And a spec fPL from Idexx, turnaround is 1-2 days. Ask the vet to humour you, even if he doesn't believe in the value of it. Everyone's assuming it's pancreatitis, if it's not, we want to know so we're not barking up the wrong tree. Poor Blackie has suffered long enough. If you don't know what this is, you can't begin to treat.

Do you think he would eat kibble? What brands of kibble do you have around? If you don't have any low-phos ones, Hills M/D is an option. It's lower in phos than the premium brands, and low-ish carb. Your vet probably carries it.

Ask if they can give him a shot of an anti-emetic too. If he's vomiting he can't keep food down even if you can get him to eat. And obviously he won't be able to keep down an oral anti-emetic.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

Also Maureen K's comment on inflammation of biliary tract - follow up on that with vet.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

I did try the liver shake, but he only ate about 1 or 2 teaspoons. I was wondering if that made him vomit or the temptations which he never gets. I'll update when I get back.

(eta) I syr fed him 1.5 Tb of baby food after he vomited and a little later he ate some FFMedley 10% and he's kept all of that down.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

here's a post i saved from cheryl/winnie on another thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=26965

Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat:

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

If enticements don't work, you should consider:
-assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
-and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)

and if those fail talking to your vet about feeding tubes
- Here is Dr. Lisa's link on feeding tubes :
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=feedingtubes
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

Sienne, this is the liver shake:

THE '~LIVER SHAKE~' FOR SICK CATS

This liquid food is appropriate for cats suffering from conditions where they are eating very little or not at all such as anemias, leukemias, deficiency states with symptoms of lethargy, listlessness, and weakness.

1 cup RAW LIVER (BEEF, or CHICKEN)
1 cup FRESH CARROT JUICE or V-8, or Tomatoe Juice
1/4 cup *FRESH FILTERED WATER
1 RAW EGG YOLK
1 tsp.KELP POWDER OR SPIRULINA


COMBINE AND MIX IN A BLENDER UNTIL LIQUEFIED. (Note: it will be frothy)

Dosage:

Administer 10cc daily 3-6 times a day. (6Occ per day max)

Some cats will need to be force-fed with an oral syringe, while others will drink it out of a bowl.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie ...5.5 39 +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 vomited

Lots of love for you and blackie.
You have a lot of ideas to bring to the vet. Remember, you are the driver and get to make the tx choices you feel are best for your boy.
((((Ele & Blackie & DH))))
May this visit help you find answers to help blackie heal.

I will be thinking of you tonight.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 +10 181 update

Once again, Blackie had a normal exam - no temp, normal heart, no pain on any part of the exam. We talked about the Mirtazapine, Ondansetron, etc and vet said that the Mirt would take care of appetite, nausea and vomiting, so we're sticking with that for now. He's going to do an ultrasound tomorrow morning and we'll do the fPLI on Monday. Monday is better for the bloodwork since its a holiday weekend and the blood has to be fedexed. Blackie did have an ultrasound within the last year so at least we have a baseline.

The vet also said I should go down to 1 unit for now. Its a little scary to go so low in dose, but I don't want another day like today either.

He also said no prednisone or prednisolone. He thinks its too risky with the diabetes at this point.

(eta) Do you think there is other bloodwork we should have run on Monday?

Now Blackie is standing in the kitchen crying for food. ohmygod_smile Maybe the Mirt kicked in. Shot time isn't for another 40 minutes, so he'll have to wait. I just hope he eats well tonight.

Thank you so much for all the support today. I honestly don't know what I would do without you. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 +10 181 update

truthfully, I think if he is crying for food then I would give him some. He has been inappetant for long enough. You don't need to feed a lot but give him a couple of tsp of something. He deserves it.

((((((Ele))))))
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie +6 42 +6.5 50 +8.5 116 +10 181 update

((((((Ele)))) sending a ton of healing vines and snowflakes for Blackie to help him feel better
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

sending all the prayers, healing/good appetite vines and positive thoughts we can muster your way...
celi & binks
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

My gosh Ele - I have been gone most of the day, am just getting to condos... I am so sorry that Blackie is having such problems. I am glad that you will have an ultrasound done, as well as the fPLI. hang in there - I know how hard today has been for you.

Mannie and I send a ton of healing vines and snowflakes for Blackie. (((((((ELE)))))))
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

Oh gosh, Ele....we've been gone all day, too since right after Blackie started falling on his BG. I'm so glad you took him to the vet and are getting the US and the fPLI. You have gotten some great advice today and all we have to add is our thoughts and prayers and tons of healing vines and snowflakes for Blackie and some comfort vines for you. We hope he eats well tonight and that your vet can find out what is wrong. (((Ele)))
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

I hope Blackie ate and kept dinner where it belongs. Are you able to give Pepsid?

The reason I asked about the liver shake was to see if it really contained liver. If you didn't use chicken liver, I'd stay away from beef products. Many cats are allergic or are sensitive to beef.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

Although Blackie acted hungry before shot time, he only ate about 1.5 Tb withn an hour. He's sleepin now with his bud, Charlie. Charlie made sure all the food that spilled on Blackie's fur and the vetty smell got washd off. :-D
 

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Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

(((Bless both their hearts))) absolutely priceless, precious & PURRfect. Thank you for sharing...
Sweet dreams, healing vines & prayers above = blessings down o:-)
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

How sweet of Charlie to take care of Blackie. Tons of vines for the appy stims to start to work. Blackie is such a brave kitty! Remember to take care of yurself too! Hugs and calming vines for you! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

Blackie is eating a little better - I think from the Mirtazapine, but whatever works. Sienne, yes, we are keeping up with the Pepcie, 2.5 mg bid. I think I'll throw that liver shake out. I didn't know that beef liver was bad for cats.
 
Re: 12/29 Blackie pmps 308 update

Ni Ni Blackie, Charlie, Ele, DH. Sweet dreams and a good eating day tomorrow. What a lovely picture!

Hugs,

Ella & Rusty
 
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