12/26 Cobb AMPS 362 +3 376 +6.5 328 +9 398 PMPS 369

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Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Member Since 2013
Yesterday

I hope Santa was good to everyone this year!

We're starting off this morning a little lower, so hopefully that translates into a dip today. **fingers crossed**

Cobb is all good this morning. Other than boiled chicken, which doesn't seem to be helping at 5-6am, any advice on keeping Cobb from getting so hungry in the morning. I feed him when I shoot at 8pm. Then I have a times feeder that feeds him some more at midnight-ish and then 3ish. But by 6, he is a pain in the tail! I'd love any of your suggestions. Giving him some chicken doesn't seem to curb his appetite. But then he makes it through the entire day on one can, granted he naps much of that time!

~Suzanne

ETA: I should add, if I push one of those night feedings to later, he walks around hitting the feeder and meowing as if we were starving him and he hadn't eaten in days. He can be a bit dramatic. Lol
 
Re: 12/26 Cobb AMPS 362 +3 376

Hi Suzanne,

Nice to see lower numbers for Cobb to start his day!
Is Cobb over or underweight? Maybe you could give him some of his regular food at 5-6AM to see if it holds him better than the boiled chicken? I leave food out at night. DH gets up at 4 am (for work), throws out anything that is leftover, and then I t-f-s at 5:30 am. On days that DH is off, I can never be sure that Cleo didn't eat for 2 hours prior. I just know she is usually hungry! :-D

I have never used R, but you can put a ? mark in your heading and add "R dosing?" You should get more responses.

Have a great day!
ETA - never mind, I see you have a ? already ohmygod_smile
 
Re: 12/26 Cobb AMPS 362 +3 376

I can't really help with the "R" question as I don't have enough information on it other than what I've learned here, which is this:

The decision to try using "R" insulins isn't one to be taken lightly...it can be very tricky stuff to work with and VERY tiny amounts can drop BG's in a big way. It's generally not even discussed here until just about everything else has been tried for quite some time without any success.

Does it have a place in treatment? Sure it does and it can be very effective, but it can also be an even bigger roller coaster (again, this is just from what I've seen discussed. It seems so tricky, that I've never even considered it for China, but she's not been as difficult as Cobb has been either)

I don't know this for sure, but I'm betting that before anyone would suggest trying R, they might want those pesky iaa and acro tests done just to know for sure what they're dealing with. Remember, we're not vets...just a bunch of crazy cat people who have (by necessity) had to learn as much about this disease as humanly possible :-D

As for the food question...methinks you have a drama king. If he can somehow "survive" all day long on ONLY 1 can, I have to think he's just got you buffaloed into serving his every whim...Oh wait...that's all cats :lol:

If his weight is stable (or if he needs to lose, it's only about 1-2% per week of his current weight) then no matter what he tells you, he's getting enough food and you may just have to try to "re-train" HIM (seems he already has YOU trained...LOL)

You can try giving him a little more in his 3am feeding and reduce his other PM meals enough to compensate for the extra at 3am and see if it holds him a little longer, or move the 3am feeding to a little later (like 5am) and see if he'll let you sleep in a little longer, but most of us don't feed much (if any) after nadir because the effect of the insulin is already waning, and adding food just makes it harder for what's left to work.

Just offering an opinion here...hopefully some of the more experienced eyes with "difficult" cats will come along and add to the conversation!!

Keep asking those questions though! We all learn a great deal from these kinds of discussions!!
 
Re: 12/26 Cobb AMPS 362 +3 376

Suzanne

A few of us (me included) use R, either Humulin R or Novolin R (the latter being cheaper at WalMart but they are the same insulin). R is used for varying reasons. Currently, Dyana and I and a few others use it to stop any bounces from going higher. We don't use it to bring numbers down. It typically has the effect of bringing numbers down but the goal for us is to use it just as the bounce starts so it doesn't go so high.

But R can also be used for IAA and acro cats. In fact, you might want to read through some of Ozy's condos because we've been discussing donaleen using R to actually bring numbers down and break through the resistance that she is seeing with the IAA.

Right now, we've suggested that you increase his dose by 0.5u every 4 cycles. That's pretty aggressive but is allowed for in the protocol. We also suggest that when they get above the 6u bid dose, the caregiver have the kitty tested for IAA and acro. Wendy and Julie might have some other thoughts because they are used to dealing with high dose cats, but my feeling is that Cobb is not bouncing and so you don't need the R for that. Using R is also an aggressive technique when you are using it to bring numbers down and it takes a lot of attention. It would really be nice to know what you are dealing with (e.g. is Cobb IAA or acro) before you start using R because if he is neither, I'd be hesitant on using R to bring numbers down when, actually, we just aren't to a good dose yet. And if he is acro, I would wonder if it's not the best thing to use unless he's bouncing because with acro cats, the tumors can wane on and off. But I will let more experienced folks with acro address that question.

Those are my thoughts and some of the ladies who have IAA/acro kitties or who have used R for high dose kitties might have some other thoughts. BTW, I do know that Julie's Punkin was acro and she only used the R to stop the bounces from going so high.
 
Re: 12/26 Cobb AMPS 362 +3 376

I'm another voice from the chorus suggesting that you get the testing for high dose conditions done. Cobb's numbers really aren't budging from the above 300s except on a few occasions. His numbers look better on Lantus than they did when Cobb was on N but I know that his numbers aren't where you want them. Getting the tests done will help to answer questions.

The cost for getting the acro and IAA testing done runs around $60 - $70 plus shipping -- unless your vet tacks on some extra charges for the blood draw. The shipping is relatively expensive since it needs to be shipped overnight in special packaging. The tests are run at Michigan State and there is information in links we can send you so everything goes smoothly.

All of that said, it's after the holidays and money is tight for a lot of us. If it's not a good time to get the lab work done, then continuing to be aggressive about dose and learning to use R may be good options.
 
Re: 12/26 Cobb AMPS 362 +3 376 +6.5 328

Hi all ,

I read Ozy's condo, which is where the question came from. I'm certainly not going to put him on it until I have those tests run.

I will be calling the vet to discuss the blood draws for the tests. I just know when they drew his blood at his last annual visit, he freaked put because they did it from a back leg. He screamed like I'd never heard. I was 7mos pregnant and sobbing in the waiting room. I'm guessing it was more traumatic for me than him, but that's my hesitation!

~Suzanne
 
Re: 12/26 Cobb AMPS 362 +3 376 +6.5 328

ohmygosh, that sounds very traumatic. i can imagine. seems like there would be a better option for a blood draw!

Here's the link to the high dose tests. http://animalhealth.msu.edu/Bin/Catalog.exe?Action=Search&SPECIES=Feline&PAGE=6&Page=7 The ones you want are insulin autoantibodies 20031 and insulin-like growth factor-1, 20005.

In addition to the lab cost for the test i think i had to pay for the blood draw at the vet and for the shipping - i think it totalled a little over $100, but that was in 2011. There is a tab about shipping. i did phone the lab in advance and ask them about shipping and they told me that one service was better than the other. I want to say that it was USPS was best and they had trouble with Fed Ex, but i might have it backwards. That was a while ago. Since Donaleen just had it done, you might ask her how she had her vet send the blood.

i don't really have an idea about the food. tinkering with quantity or what you feed him, i guess, would be one option. i shut my cats in another area of the house at night because they keep us up all night.
 
Well, we had a day in the pinks. Cobb sure does like his pinks. He occasionally throw in a red, which I've told him clashes. Pink, yellow and blue make a much nicer color combination, don't you think?

No dips into the yellows on this dose so it looks like another dosecrease is in order, unless we see something drastically different tonight - like a blue number. But given Cobb's stubbornness, I don't forsee that.

Thanks for all the info today. I'm composing an email to the vet about what we've been up to and the tests that we need the blood for. Other than the TR protocol, Cobb's SS, and his behavior change...is there anything else anyone can think of that I need to add so she has all the information?
 
if you can manage the tests, i think it's going to really help us find the right direction for you in how to treat Cobb best. These are some ugly numbers. at this point, i'm looking longingly at the 10u numbers he was having. I'm sure you are too. We'll get him there!
 
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