12/25 Kokkinoulis AMPS 377, +2 402, +4 400, +7 370, PMPS 500/ increased insulin dose, bouncing

Kokkinoulis

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Kokkinoulis spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Oet6YYxL03ifr4bD2ajGmIsCOGLgUXmOPWLtn/pubhtml

Merry Christmas to all of you. My cat Kokkinoulis is 7.6 kg. I recently switched to insulin Lantus 2.5 iu from caninsulin and I am trying to follow TR as for 2 weeks I will be at home. As the BG levels were still high I tried to increase dose to 0.25 unit (new dose 2.75 unit) today in the morning however the BG levels are higher now after this change.
  1. Could this be a bounce?
  2. Could you please take a look to Kokkinoulis spreadsheet and assist me?
  3. Did I make a mistake, was I in a hurry and increased the dose early when I should have kept the same dose for a few more days? Should I reduce to initial 2.5 unit?
  4. Moreover, how many times a day and what exactly hours should I test my cat at home now? Today he was also very aggressive during the BG home tests and I finally measured his BG levels correctly after many attempts. I think I should feed her more because I made the mistake of having him on a diet at the same time as he is unregulated.
 
Hello and welcome. I will try to answer your questions.
Could this be a bounce?
Yes, his body isn't used to that long stretch of yellows or numbers in the 200's that he saw last night. The other complicating factor could be something we call NDW or New Dose Wonkiness. More explanation in this post: New Dose Wonkiness (NDW) and failed reductions
Could you please take a look to Kokkinoulis spreadsheet and assist me?
What sort of assistance are you looking for?
Did I make a mistake, was I in a hurry and increased the dose early when I should have kept the same dose for a few more days? Should I reduce to initial 2.5 unit?
Yes, you did increase too quickly. When starting Lantus, you are supposed to hold the starting dose for 5-7 days, to build the depot. So you increased to soon. Also, with nadirs below 300, you increase the dose by 0.25 after 6 consecutive cycles at a given dose. However, fur shots interrupt that count of cycles. More information here: Reminder: Counting Cycles

Should you decrease the dose? I would not as you've already shot two doses of 2.75 units and his numbers are still fairly high, providing you can monitor closely the next few days. And after that, I would hold the 2.75 unit dose for at least 6 cycles. Unless he goes below 50 and earns a reduction.
Moreover, how many times a day and what exactly hours should I test my cat at home now? Today he was also very aggressive during the BG home tests and I finally measured his BG levels correctly after many attempts. I think I should feed her more because I made the mistake of having him on a diet at the same time as he is unregulated.
As for how many times per day to test, at a minimum you need the two preshot tests, plus at least one other per cycle for a total of 4 per day. Most of us following TR, tended to more tests. The more data you have, the easier it is to figure out the best times to test. Right now, it is early in Kokkinoulis Lantus journey. His body is still learning how to use the insulin and the best times to test may vary from cycle to cycle. Ideally you'd like to find what his onset and nadir times are. The nadir is the lowest point in the cycle and we determine how to change the dose based on those nadirs. Although a typical nadir is +6, it can vary by cat and even then from cycle to cycle. My cat's Lantus nadir was between +7 and +9, I've seen others at +3. Your job is to collect enough data to find out what is is for your cat.
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
There is a guideline we use to determine when you might need more testing for a cycle, and that is based on how the +2 test compares to the preshot test. If the +2 is quite a bit lower than the preshot (like yesterday AM), that's a indication of a more active cycle that needs more testing. A +2 about the same as the preshot is a regular type Lantus cycle that will still have some downward movement. A +2 that is higher, like this morning, indicates a quiet cycle that will need less testing.

When your cat is in mostly higher numbers, finding the nadir will be more difficult, and the time might change when he gets closer to good numbers. Other facts can influence a nadir, such as breaking the bounce, which he was looking like he was doing yesterday morning.

How much food are you feeding now? Is he at an ideal weight or do you know how much he should weight? Unregulated cats might need more food, but I wouldn't overfeed as he's already a large cat. I got a pet scale and weighed my cat at least weekly. I'd use that and my goal of where I wanted her weight to be, to determine how much more or less I should feed.
 
Hi Wendy, Thanks a lot for your advise and assistance. I made an error. His weight now is 6.7 kg and not 7.6 as it was before 1 month. I feed him 1 and 1/3 Purina pro plan veterinary diets cat dm diabetes management mousse as if he weighed 6kg but he is always hungry. I will follow your advise and I will feed him more till he is regulated and then try to lose weight.
 
My suggestion was to feed him to get him to the weight you want him to be. If he needs to lose weight, and he is gaining weight with what you are feeding him, he needs less food, not more.

Are you feeding him several small meals per cycle? I found that more smaller meals helped my hungry girl.
 
My suggestion was to feed him to get him to the weight you want him to be. If he needs to lose weight, and he is gaining weight with what you are feeding him, he needs less food, not more.

Are you feeding him several small meals per cycle? I found that more smaller meals helped my hungry girl.
Hi Wendy, I was feeding him for 6 kg but as he is still unregulated he is aggressive during preshot tests so some in this forum told me firstly to have more low BGs and then to have diet. I feed him 2 main portions during shots and several small portions (1tbs) in between.
 
I thing that his weight should be about 4.6 to 5 kg as his brother. I used to feed him 1 can to 1 & 1/3 cab of Purina pro plan veterinary diets cat dm diabetes management mousse and now I thing to feed him 1& 2/3 can (for his current weight 6.7 kg this is the dose 1&2/3 to 2 cans) plus some healthy treats during testing like gifts in order to be more calm as he begin to hate to be tested.
 
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