12/25 Jackson AMPS 312 +2 292 +3 272 +8 291 PMPS 294 +4 250 +7 272

Skye & Jackson

Skye & Jackson

Member Since 2022
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-24-jackson-amps-246-5-250-pmps-308-3-189-6-200.272200/

Well, I’ve figured one thing out. One unit is enough to bring his numbers down, at least into blues. It is not enough to hold them there. The liver bounce seems to kick in very quickly, reacting very abruptly to numbers as mediocre as 160 and 180, and the one unit can’t overcome it. It held for a few hours on 12/21, but was just a couple of valleys with a bump up between on the graph last night. The spike up happened almost immediately after the second drop, a very sharp rocket-ship type rise. Hopefully he’ll settle back down into mid-to-lower yellows today and not stay so high.

But 1.0 unit is definitely not enough. Just 1.25 crashed him badly just a week ago (12/19). I’m nervous about going back to it. But that’s the pattern, right? Down and up again? Or is it yet time to consider in-between doses? Or what about slightly different doses morning and evening? I’ve started noticing that as a new Lantus protocol for some human patients.
 
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Skye & Jackson said:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-24-jackson-amps-246-5-250-pmps-308-3-189-6-200.272200/

Well, I’ve figured one thing out. One unit is enough to bring his numbers down, at least into blues. It is not enough to hold them there. The liver bounce seems to kick in very quickly, reacting very abruptly to numbers as mediocre as 160 and 180, and the one unit can’t overcome it. It held for a few hours on 12/21, but was just a couple of valleys with a bump up between on the graph last night. The spike up happened almost immediately after the second drop, a very sharp rocket-ship type rise. Hopefully he’ll settle back down into mid-to-lower yellows today and not stay so high.

But 1.0 unit is definitely not enough. Just 1.25 crashed him badly just a week ago (12/19). I’m nervous about going back to it. But that’s the pattern, right? Down and up again? Or is it yet time to consider in-between doses? Or what about slightly different doses morning and evening? I’ve started noticing that as a new Lantus protocol for some human patients.
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I saw those blues last night. That’s good. I also see that he is very bouncy. He definitely bounces from seeing blues. Hopefully, he will start to clear bounces faster and faster and will spend less time in the numbers we don’t like! It’s too early to think about doing fat or skinny doses right now; I would continue to follow the protocol. There can be a bit of back-and-forth and up and down in the doses with cats. Their insulin needs can and do change over time. Many cats will become more used to lower numbers and bounce less. Some remain bouncy. I know you feel like you’re not really making progress, but you are making progress. I understand the frustration. Try giving huge high doses (like 40 units) to your cat and seeing no change! That was me and Darcy for a long time. Talk about despair! Fortunately, I don’t see that in your future with Jackson. Keep up the good work, and try to be patient. You are doing a great job!
 
Oh, I would not advise doing a different dose morning and evening with a depot insulin like Lantus. It plays havoc with the depot and will make decisions about increases and decreases almost impossible to make.
 
Thanks guys. I know you tell me some of the same things over and again, but it really does help. I keep getting to where I second-guess things, so the detailed advice and also anecdotes about other cats does actually help reassure me. Thank you both/all again, so much. :bighug::bighug::bighug: Happy Christmas!

I do hope Jack gets less bouncy. [crossing fingers, though not holding breath] He definitely responds to insulin, yes, thank God! It’s just a matter of trying to find a dose that will bring him down enough without then crashing him! I don’t expect to never have to adjust his dose, but it would be nice to have him get decent numbers from one for more than a couple of days in a row. A few weeks of stability at a time would be so awesome! At least the 1.0 unit seems to be a relatively safe dose for him. It doesn’t bring him down as far as we’d like, or for long (I’d even be happy just with longer stretches of blues at this point)… but he’s not crashing. Is it possible that if he’s on this dose longer that he might start showing lower numbers with more time at stability? Have you seen that with others? Or will his pattern likely never get better, meaning I will have to increase again soon?

I do know he’s made progress - not that long ago, I felt we’d never be rid of reds, and at higher doses, at that! I felt distractedly stressed almost constantly, even frequently panicky. I do feel much calmer at present, and am not so afraid of ketones (he eats/drinks well, and has finally put on a few more ounces weight over his bones, which relieves me) with his yellow and blue palette. I just want to make sure he stays healthy; I’d like him to spend more time below that kidney threshold of 250-260 if nothing else. Blues would be better; he actually acts like he feels good in blues. And of course safe (higher) greens are healing, though they make me nervous at present because he usually only seems to see those numbers on the way down further.

It actually is an interesting thing, the different Lantus dosing with humans… I have to wonder why I’m starting to see doctors do it. (Also interesting that I’m starting to see more people on twice daily dosing, in the first place.) Maybe humans don’t build the depot the same, or empty it faster? Don’t really know.
 
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The idea is that he will eventually flatten out into good numbers on a dose and then you'll be able to go down in dose and he stays in good numbers. Sometimes you have to keep going back up and down in dose until you get to that point. :bighug::bighug:
 
Skye & Jackson said:
Thanks guys. I know you tell me some of the same things over and again, but it really does help. I keep getting to where I second-guess things, so the detailed advice and also anecdotes about other cats does actually help reassure me. Thank you both/all again, so much. :bighug::bighug::bighug: Happy Christmas!

I do hope Jack gets less bouncy. [crossing fingers, though not holding breath] He definitely responds to insulin, yes, thank God! It’s just a matter of trying to find a dose that will bring him down enough without then crashing him! I don’t expect to never have to adjust his dose, but it would be nice to have him get decent numbers from one for more than a couple of days in a row. A few weeks of stability at a time would be so awesome! At least the 1.0 unit seems to be a relatively safe dose for him. It doesn’t bring him down as far as we’d like, or for long (I’d even be happy just with longer stretches of blues at this point)… but he’s not crashing. Is it possible that if he’s on this dose longer that he might start showing lower numbers with more time at stability? Have you seen that with others? Or will his pattern likely never get better, meaning I will have to increase again soon?

I do know he’s made progress - not that long ago, I felt we’d never be rid of reds, and at higher doses, at that! I felt distractedly stressed almost constantly, even frequently panicky. I do feel much calmer at present, and am not so afraid of ketones (he eats/drinks well, and has finally put on a few more ounces weight over his bones, which relieves me) with his yellow and blue palette. I just want to make sure he stays healthy; I’d like him to spend more time below that kidney threshold of 250-260 if nothing else. Blues would be better; he actually acts like he feels good in blues. And of course safe (higher) greens are healing, though they make me nervous at present because he usually only seems to see those numbers on the way down further.

It actually is an interesting thing, the different Lantus dosing with humans… I have to wonder why I’m starting to see doctors do it. (Also interesting that I’m starting to see more people on twice daily dosing, in the first place.) Maybe humans don’t build the depot the same, or empty it faster? Don’t really know.
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@Tina Marie (GA) and Jan ? Any ideas about the human dosing of Lantus?
 
Skye & Jackson said:
Thanks guys. I know you tell me some of the same things over and again, but it really does help. I keep getting to where I second-guess things, so the detailed advice and also anecdotes about other cats does actually help reassure me. Thank you both/all again, so much. :bighug::bighug::bighug: Happy Christmas!

I do hope Jack gets less bouncy. [crossing fingers, though not holding breath] He definitely responds to insulin, yes, thank God! It’s just a matter of trying to find a dose that will bring him down enough without then crashing him! I don’t expect to never have to adjust his dose, but it would be nice to have him get decent numbers from one for more than a couple of days in a row. A few weeks of stability at a time would be so awesome! At least the 1.0 unit seems to be a relatively safe dose for him. It doesn’t bring him down as far as we’d like, or for long (I’d even be happy just with longer stretches of blues at this point)… but he’s not crashing. Is it possible that if he’s on this dose longer that he might start showing lower numbers with more time at stability? Have you seen that with others? Or will his pattern likely never get better, meaning I will have to increase again soon?

I do know he’s made progress - not that long ago, I felt we’d never be rid of reds, and at higher doses, at that! I felt distractedly stressed almost constantly, even frequently panicky. I do feel much calmer at present, and am not so afraid of ketones (he eats/drinks well, and has finally put on a few more ounces weight over his bones, which relieves me) with his yellow and blue palette. I just want to make sure he stays healthy; I’d like him to spend more time below that kidney threshold of 250-260 if nothing else. Blues would be better; he actually acts like he feels good in blues. And of course safe (higher) greens are healing, though they make me nervous at present because he usually only seems to see those numbers on the way down further.

It actually is an interesting thing, the different Lantus dosing with humans… I have to wonder why I’m starting to see doctors do it. (Also interesting that I’m starting to see more people on twice daily dosing, in the first place.) Maybe humans don’t build the depot the same, or empty it faster? Don’t really know.
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Everything you are experiencing emotionally and mentally is quite natural and normal. I think all caregivers go through this. You love him a lot. I’m very optimistic about Jackson making even more progress as we go along. But this journey always has lots of ups and downs.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Everything you are experiencing emotionally and mentally is quite natural and normal. I think all caregivers go through this. You love him a lot. I’m very optimistic about Jackson making even more progress as we go along. But this journey always has lots of ups and downs.
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:bighug:Of course I love him… he’s my Jack-Jack. I imagine we all feel that way about our dear furry friends. Otherwise we wouldn’t be here, on this board, going through the spreadsheeting, spending so much of our soul and energy on them. :blackeye: :cat: I know there are still cat owners who don’t do this journey at all… :(
 
Skye & Jackson said:
:bighug:Of course I love him… he’s my Jack-Jack. I imagine we all feel that way about our dear furry friends. Otherwise we wouldn’t be here, on this board, going through the spreadsheeting, spending so much of our soul and energy on them. :blackeye: :cat: I know there are still cat owners who don’t do this journey at all… :(
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Exactly! You read my mind.
 
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