12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534 PMPS 353

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Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Member Since 2013
Yesterday

Last night recap:
PMPS: 353
+2: 369
+7: 292
+9: 334
AMPS: 407 (booooo)

So...a continuing bounce or Cobb settling into this dose and refusing to go down into the blues and yellows?

Some good news...you see that 5 hour stretch between +2 and +7? Baby bean slept, so mama bean followed the safe advice "When baby sleeps, mama sleeps." Longest stretch in several weeks!

WCR: all 5 P's in place. Appetite is good. He was hungrier than normal overnight so I gave him some chicken to tide him over.

Unless we drop a lot today and tonight, we'll plan for a dosecrease tomorrow morning. You hear that Cobb? A dosecrease on Christmas morning?? Is that really how you want to celebrate??

Hope everyone has a fun, safe a Christmas Eve!

~Suzanne
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388

I hope the dosecrease threat works for you ;-) Come on down Cobb, the yellows, blues and greens are much prettier :-D Awesome that you got some rest! Have a wonderful Christmas Eve!
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388

Merry Christmas Eve Suzanne!!!
Congrats on the 5 hr solid sleep :-D :lol: OYE on the dosecrease Christmas Day! Cobb you work that nice and easy ok :smile: No shenanigans allowed on Christmas ;-)
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

What is the deal??? I know it can take up to 72 hours for a bounce to clear. Can he ping long back and forth in that time span? He had that nice progressive drop yesterday, then dipped back into the upper yellows overnight and now sprung back up into the 500s!!

Is this a continuation of the bounce? Another bounce? What's the deal???

I'm not frustrated...just perplexed. And curious whether I should hold this dose through 5-6 cycles to give his body a little more time to adjust?
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

Hi Suzanne,
How frustrating on Cobb's numbers! You are doing all the right things. Someone with more dosing experience will answer your questions.
I am happy for your 5 hour sleep, and wish you another tonight!

Merry Christmas Eve to you, DH, babybean and Cobb~
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

I'd almost bet he's bouncing off the yellow last night, but it sure is frustrating and discouraging to continue to see those icky high numbers.

Hope Santa Paws brings Cobb some better numbers for Christmas!!

WOO HOO on the overnight sleep!! Good thing babies start to sleep longer as they get a little older...doubt if too many parents could keep up the every 2 hour schedule too long!

Of course when they're teenagers, they'll be up all night, and sleep all day..and that's a whole other story! :lol:
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

based upon the effect of the last time he saw yellows when we held the dose, i would still keep to the 4 cycles and increase. he looks like he may have some insulin resistance - the way that he "got used" to the dose and his numbers went high right away. if so, we need to plow on to get ahead of that.

can't say for certain without testing, but that's a similar pattern to cats with insulin autoantibodies. you think you get a good dose and then it stops working. Wendy/Neko calls it "getting stale." basically the body makes antibodies that bind to the insulin, keeping it from getting into the cells.
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

I agree with Julie....I'd keep ahead with the increases as planned until we start seeing some better numbers and get through this resistance.

Glad you are catching some sleep when you can.
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

julie & punkin (ga) said:
based upon the effect of the last time he saw yellows when we held the dose, i would still keep to the 4 cycles and increase. he looks like he may have some insulin resistance - the way that he "got used" to the dose and his numbers went high right away. if so, we need to plow on to get ahead of that.

can't say for certain without testing, but that's a similar pattern to cats with insulin autoantibodies. you think you get a good dose and then it stops working. Wendy/Neko calls it "getting stale." basically the body makes antibodies that bind to the insulin, keeping it from getting into the cells.
Click to expand...

If he does have IAA, what do you do about that? How is that treated other than with huge doses of insulin? IAA cats aren't diabetic technically, correct??
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

IAA cats are diabetic. It's acro cats that aren't truly diabetic...they have a tumor which causes their issues.

You might want to read some of Ozy's condos as donaleen just found out he is IAA. There is a test that is run for it. With IAA cats, you have to be really aggressive to punch through the insulin resistance. I would really encourage you to get him tested for IAA and acro (IGF-1 test) so you know what you're dealing with and how best to address it.

There is a difference in the way we would handle a cat who just hasn't gotten to his fitting dose yet and has high numbers and a cat that has IAA. So it's important to know.
 
Re: 12/24 Cobb AMPS 407 +3 388 +5 410 +6.5 534

Suzanne - here is the post that Marje referred to when Ozy was diagnosed IAA. Sandy/Black Kitty got up to higher doses of insulin but did manage to get him OTJ. She is extremely knowledgeable in how to treat IAA. Neko has IAA in addition to her acromegaly, but we only got up to 8.75 units are are down to a little under 1.0u now. Neko's IAA number was lower than Black Kitty's.

I read through the literature that Julie posted in Ozy's condo as a refresher, and a couple of things popped out that I had known about Neko but didn't realize where IAA things. First, Neko doesn't really have a fixed point nadir. The insulin autobodies do trap the insulin, but die out after 2-3 weeks, releasing the insulin. The timing's not predictable, hence the wandering nadir. Similarly, a bounce can be delayed. Often with Neko the worst of her bounce happens at the beginning of the 3rd cycle after the low numbers.

I find that I have to keep Neko seeing green, or the dose gets "stale". By that, I mean that the numbers start creeping up. If the dose isn't giving her green every few cycles, then I have to increase. It's important to keep marching up the dosing scale until you get to a dose that can overcome the antibodies. People with confirmed IAA cats dose a bit more aggressively to get ahead of the antibodies, hence the suggestion that Cobbs get tested at some point.

Good luck with Cobb's Christmas present of more insulin. :-D Paws crossed he sees some better numbers.
 
Thank you all. I appreciate your help. I'll talk to the vet about how much she would charge for the blood draw and send off to get the tests run.

I'm going to keep Cobb at 6.5u for another 2 cycles. I'm not entirely convinced that he's completely cleared the bouncing, and I find it odd that on the 4th cycle at 6 units was when we had that nice dip into the yellow and then I upped it the next morning so I don't know if I gave his body enough time to process that dose, drop and bounce before increasing another half unit. So to satisfy my own curiousity and give him ample time to process this dose, I'm going to stay at 6.5 until Thursday morning at the earliest.

For those that celebrate Christmas, I hope you have a fantastic holiday! :smile:
 
Sounds like a plan Suzanne!!

I know we can be pretty insistent sometimes, but YOU know your cat better than anyone, so don't ever feel pressured to do something that your gut tells you not to!

We really do understand!!

Have a nice holiday with your Extra sweet kitty, and get some extra cuddles in!
 
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