nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Not much difference today.
12/23 Lucian +38/499,+46/416,+48/446,+51/504,+52/522
- Thread starter nckitties3
- Start date
- Status
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 12/23 Lucian +38/499
I think it's 48 hrs from the missed shot, which would make it tomorrow morning. 38 is how many hours since his last shot. That shot was partially in effect for the next 12 hrs. The +14 was actually +2 from his missed shot time. At least that's how I'm seeing it.
He's rarely in the bed now. Found him sleeping by the water bowl, which is what he was doing the first few months when he was so high on Lantus. I'll be glad when this is over, it's obvious he feels bad. :sad:
I think it's 48 hrs from the missed shot, which would make it tomorrow morning. 38 is how many hours since his last shot. That shot was partially in effect for the next 12 hrs. The +14 was actually +2 from his missed shot time. At least that's how I'm seeing it.
He's rarely in the bed now. Found him sleeping by the water bowl, which is what he was doing the first few months when he was so high on Lantus. I'll be glad when this is over, it's obvious he feels bad. :sad:
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 12/23 Lucian +38/499,+42/429,+46/416
I'm amazed, that although it is tiny amounts, he is slowly dropping. May hold off another day if it continues.
I'm amazed, that although it is tiny amounts, he is slowly dropping. May hold off another day if it continues.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 12/23 Lucian +38/499,+42/429,+46/416,+48/446
He is dropping slowly.
Not 1 minute after the +48 test, he threw up a furball and a LOT of water, no food, no foam, clear water. Now he's back at the bowl.
Edit: Now he won't eat and is showing between negative and trace ketones.
He is dropping slowly.
Not 1 minute after the +48 test, he threw up a furball and a LOT of water, no food, no foam, clear water. Now he's back at the bowl.
Edit: Now he won't eat and is showing between negative and trace ketones.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 12/23 Lucian +38/499,+42/429,+46/416,+48/446,+51/504
As of +51 he hasn't eaten in 6 hrs. He always eats every 2-3 at most. Last time he ate, 6 hrs ago, he ate very little. With that and starting to show faint ketones, I'll have to get him back on Lev in the morning. Can't risk it any further, I've done all I can and everything that has been suggested to me.
Don't know what will happen now.
As of +51 he hasn't eaten in 6 hrs. He always eats every 2-3 at most. Last time he ate, 6 hrs ago, he ate very little. With that and starting to show faint ketones, I'll have to get him back on Lev in the morning. Can't risk it any further, I've done all I can and everything that has been suggested to me.
Don't know what will happen now.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Re: 12/23 Lucian +38/499,+42/429,+46/416,+48/446,+51/504
If he's not eating and you're seeing ketones, it may be time for the ER?
By the time they stop eating it's very serious.
If he's not eating and you're seeing ketones, it may be time for the ER?
By the time they stop eating it's very serious.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 12/23 Lucian +38/499,+42/429,+46/416,+48/446,+51/504
I just pm'd you, please answer if you're still online.
I'm getting very worried.
Edit: I just fed him 1/4 can FF w/fortiflora. He ate most of it.
I just remembered I bought fortiflora a couple months ago, just in case. Only once, early on, was there a time he didn't want to eat, so that has never been an issue.
I just pm'd you, please answer if you're still online.
I'm getting very worried.
Edit: I just fed him 1/4 can FF w/fortiflora. He ate most of it.
I just remembered I bought fortiflora a couple months ago, just in case. Only once, early on, was there a time he didn't want to eat, so that has never been an issue.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Re: 12/23 Lucian +38/499,+42/429,+46/416,+48/446,+51/504
I suspect he needs insulin, food and perhaps fluids right away.
Maybe we should get more opinions?
Big relief that he ate something. Add lots of water if he'll take it.
I suspect he needs insulin, food and perhaps fluids right away.
Maybe we should get more opinions?
Big relief that he ate something. Add lots of water if he'll take it.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Gave R for several reasons:
1. BG 522
2. Drinking huge amounts of water
3. Vomiting water
4. Not wanting to eat.
5. Ketones between negative and trace, which it has never been. (2 tests this evening, both the same)
I couldn't hold out any longer and don't think I should.
I'm not happy and will be talking with his vet tomorrow. She's the one that wanted me to do this 2 weeks ago, I initially refused, but decided to try it since dose increases were not working.
Clock set for 6 AM, will give R again and then .25 Lev at shot time 2 hrs later. Or so that's the plan for now.
1. BG 522
2. Drinking huge amounts of water
3. Vomiting water
4. Not wanting to eat.
5. Ketones between negative and trace, which it has never been. (2 tests this evening, both the same)
I couldn't hold out any longer and don't think I should.
I'm not happy and will be talking with his vet tomorrow. She's the one that wanted me to do this 2 weeks ago, I initially refused, but decided to try it since dose increases were not working.
Clock set for 6 AM, will give R again and then .25 Lev at shot time 2 hrs later. Or so that's the plan for now.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Debbie, how much R are you giving? I'm not seeing it on Lucian's ss. it would be helpful if you noted how much R with each dose. Just put it in the cell and then you can color it manually.
I agree with Dale, he needs to be eating and needs insulin. I hope you'll restart. If you can't get him eating right away, i'd probably go to the vet ER as well, hopefully one that is not associated with the vet that suggested you stop insulin.
I also hope you get a new vet. i can see nothing that would say Lucian needed less insulin. I would've said he needed an increase. i'm so sorry you're going through this. :YMHUG:
I agree with Dale, he needs to be eating and needs insulin. I hope you'll restart. If you can't get him eating right away, i'd probably go to the vet ER as well, hopefully one that is not associated with the vet that suggested you stop insulin.
I also hope you get a new vet. i can see nothing that would say Lucian needed less insulin. I would've said he needed an increase. i'm so sorry you're going through this. :YMHUG:
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
And keep testing for ketones every time he goes. Test and see what the R is doing.
I agree I'm not sure I'd want to go back to a vet that would propose withholding insulin in circumstances like this?
I also wonder if those Levemir pens are bad? Looks like the R has always done something, but perhaps not the L?
I agree I'm not sure I'd want to go back to a vet that would propose withholding insulin in circumstances like this?
I also wonder if those Levemir pens are bad? Looks like the R has always done something, but perhaps not the L?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
couple more things. if i were you, i'd restart at 1.0u. it will take a while to rebuild the depot with the Lev and Lucian sounds like a sick kitter. i wouldn't dink around with 0.25u in his case. I don't see anything in the 10 doses you gave him at 1.0u that would say that it was too much, although with the R in the mix it's a little more complicated.
can you explain what your strategy with the R is? generally when R is used as a bolus (secondary) insulin, we only use it to hold down the BGs or to pull down numbers slightly, in order to allow the basal (Lev) insulin to work better. It's a stronger insulin that works quicker, but pulling down numbers quickly can really set up bouncing. that might be part of what you're seeing.
That situation is different with a cat that is having ketones, however. I don't have enough experience with ketones to be able to advise you on how to treat them at home. anything more than a trace usually must be treated by a vet.
can you explain what your strategy with the R is? generally when R is used as a bolus (secondary) insulin, we only use it to hold down the BGs or to pull down numbers slightly, in order to allow the basal (Lev) insulin to work better. It's a stronger insulin that works quicker, but pulling down numbers quickly can really set up bouncing. that might be part of what you're seeing.
That situation is different with a cat that is having ketones, however. I don't have enough experience with ketones to be able to advise you on how to treat them at home. anything more than a trace usually must be treated by a vet.
Lyndsey & Mittens
Member Since 2013
Awww-Paws crossed Lucian feels better soon!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
good morning, debbie. it's 5:30 in the morning and i woke up thinking about Lucian. I hope he's hanging in there this morning. what he needs now is food, water and enough insulin.
Do you know the tricks for getting a cat to eat? With him flirting with ketones, it's critical that he eat whatever he will. even if it's med or higher carb, he needs food. you can finger feed him to try to "prime the pump." heat it up, pour on tuna water, sprinkle some parmesan, oregano or catnip on top. pulverize some dry if he's a dry food addict and sprinkle it on top.
also, water helps flush out ketones. if he will eat food soupy, add as much water as he will tolerate. if he eats and gets some water in him, he'll feel better.
please update if you are able. i'm going back to bed but will look again for your update later.
eta - i just looked back through a couple of days of your posts. Debbie, there are definitely other options to try to get him regulated besides stopping his insulin. i don't know what else you've tried. Have you tried tinkering with his food schedule? sometimes feeding at ps, +1, +2 and +3 can slow down the initial drops that can cause bouncing, thereby helping to reduce it. another option is to increase the carb content of his food to lift up his nadir (make it higher) to allow you to give more insulin and bring down the top numbers. I used R with punkin mostly as the cycle began to rise to prevent the high numbers from happening rather than after the bounce happened to try to pull them down.
and yes, absolutely, going without insulin can send him into DKA.
when i look at his ss, i don't see an unusually bouncy cat. honestly, it looks pretty typical. i don't normally even look at the Relaxed board but someone asked for help for you. i think we could help you get Lucian into better numbers.
Do you know the tricks for getting a cat to eat? With him flirting with ketones, it's critical that he eat whatever he will. even if it's med or higher carb, he needs food. you can finger feed him to try to "prime the pump." heat it up, pour on tuna water, sprinkle some parmesan, oregano or catnip on top. pulverize some dry if he's a dry food addict and sprinkle it on top.
also, water helps flush out ketones. if he will eat food soupy, add as much water as he will tolerate. if he eats and gets some water in him, he'll feel better.
please update if you are able. i'm going back to bed but will look again for your update later.
eta - i just looked back through a couple of days of your posts. Debbie, there are definitely other options to try to get him regulated besides stopping his insulin. i don't know what else you've tried. Have you tried tinkering with his food schedule? sometimes feeding at ps, +1, +2 and +3 can slow down the initial drops that can cause bouncing, thereby helping to reduce it. another option is to increase the carb content of his food to lift up his nadir (make it higher) to allow you to give more insulin and bring down the top numbers. I used R with punkin mostly as the cycle began to rise to prevent the high numbers from happening rather than after the bounce happened to try to pull them down.
and yes, absolutely, going without insulin can send him into DKA.
when i look at his ss, i don't see an unusually bouncy cat. honestly, it looks pretty typical. i don't normally even look at the Relaxed board but someone asked for help for you. i think we could help you get Lucian into better numbers.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
If he's not eating and starting to throw ketones he needs to be back on insulin NOW!!
I would give R to pull him down and start back at 1u or even 1.5u. You can walk him back down in dose later if need be. Just need those numbers down pronto. And him eating again, even if it's not a diabetic friendly diet.
Mel and The Fur Gang
I would give R to pull him down and start back at 1u or even 1.5u. You can walk him back down in dose later if need be. Just need those numbers down pronto. And him eating again, even if it's not a diabetic friendly diet.
Mel and The Fur Gang
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Debbie,
This looks too much like what Bob went thru a couple of months ago.
All I can advise is get him back on the juice, get food in him, and keep testing for ketones. Can he get sub-q fluids? I'm sorry, I don't know his history on that. If so, it should help flush ketones and keep him hydrated.
Bob went downhill rapidly, and threw ketones, and I couldn't catch up fast enough.
Sending prayers and vines to you and your boy.
This looks too much like what Bob went thru a couple of months ago.
All I can advise is get him back on the juice, get food in him, and keep testing for ketones. Can he get sub-q fluids? I'm sorry, I don't know his history on that. If so, it should help flush ketones and keep him hydrated.
Bob went downhill rapidly, and threw ketones, and I couldn't catch up fast enough.
Sending prayers and vines to you and your boy.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Thank you Carl.
Just had him at the vet 2 weeks ago, complete panel looks great. This happened because the vet thinks he may be rebounding. He can drop low on .50U and continue to climb on 1.0. She asked me to take him off insulin for 48 hrs, to see what he could do. She also suggested that maybe the Lev isn't working for him anymore. Of course, Lantus didn't work at all. So we may have to try something else.
As for fluids, he's drinking like a horse and he is eating better, last night was an issue, but I found fortiflora helped that.
He is back on low dose, .25 for now. It is what was recommended by the vet, due to rebound, actually she said maybe even lower if I could. So we'll see where this takes him.
On my way to Walmart! On Christmas Eve! Can you imagine? I need to get more strips, just in case. And I found his ketone strips have been open almost a year, gonna get new.
Just had him at the vet 2 weeks ago, complete panel looks great. This happened because the vet thinks he may be rebounding. He can drop low on .50U and continue to climb on 1.0. She asked me to take him off insulin for 48 hrs, to see what he could do. She also suggested that maybe the Lev isn't working for him anymore. Of course, Lantus didn't work at all. So we may have to try something else.
As for fluids, he's drinking like a horse and he is eating better, last night was an issue, but I found fortiflora helped that.
He is back on low dose, .25 for now. It is what was recommended by the vet, due to rebound, actually she said maybe even lower if I could. So we'll see where this takes him.
On my way to Walmart! On Christmas Eve! Can you imagine? I need to get more strips, just in case. And I found his ketone strips have been open almost a year, gonna get new.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Awe, you should have waited till like midnite tonight. It would have been so much more entertaining there at that hour. :lol:
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
@BJM, no I haven't, that will be my next trial if he won't stabilize again. Depending on how he does between now and Thurs, I'll ask the vet about trying it.
@Carl, I have no idea when they'll close, so I thought I'd bite the bullet. It was a mad house! I am 10 mins from there, 15 at the most. Took 1.5 hrs to get there and get 4 item and get home. Crazy! I NEVER go even a week before Christmas and had I not been concerned with having enough BG strips (although I have over half a container, you never know w/Lucian) and about the age of his ketone strips, it would have never happened. I picked up milk and bread as a side note. :lol: Total of 4 items, 1.5 hrs. Go figure!
Going to pull out the uncovered LB I have and put it in the bathroom, since that's where he wants to stay. That way I can see when he goes potty from my bedroom and catch his tests.
@Carl, I have no idea when they'll close, so I thought I'd bite the bullet. It was a mad house! I am 10 mins from there, 15 at the most. Took 1.5 hrs to get there and get 4 item and get home. Crazy! I NEVER go even a week before Christmas and had I not been concerned with having enough BG strips (although I have over half a container, you never know w/Lucian) and about the age of his ketone strips, it would have never happened. I picked up milk and bread as a side note. :lol: Total of 4 items, 1.5 hrs. Go figure!
Going to pull out the uncovered LB I have and put it in the bathroom, since that's where he wants to stay. That way I can see when he goes potty from my bedroom and catch his tests.
- Status