12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328 PMPS 303 pm+2 268

Status
Not open for further replies.

Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Member Since 2013
Yesterday

Happy Sunday!

Cobb is doing well this morning. It looks like he cleared that dry food out of his system overnight. Hopefully he'll start working this extra juice!

Dry food led to a little extra litter being used but that's probably to be expected. Appetite is good this morning with his regular wet food though.

Hope everyone has a great day!

~Suzanne
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369

Ok Cobb. No more shenanigans and let's start working that juse for mamabean! :-D
So happy to hear he continues to look and feel better Suzanne :-D You're doing great things with him. And don't feel bad about the kibble. Happened here too, I never threw it out because I decided the strays could still eat it, but one of the civies figured out the lid!!! Kitties are naughty! :lol:
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369

i think i'd still stick with the 4 cycles plan still. For anyone reading, this is an option from the Tilly Protocol for a cat that is continually producing high nadirs.

at what point do you want to consider getting him tested for a high dose condition? usually when people get to 6 units we suggest having the tests done so that we know what direction to take with dosing suggestions. there are 2 that he may have - acromegaly and insulin auto antibodies. acromegaly is probably slightly more common that the iaa, some cats have one or the other and some have both. Ozy just got diagnosed with iaa only, Neko has both iaa and acro, Pepper has acro, Tip has acro - i don't remember offhand if Pepper or Tip also have iaa. there are probably others that i'm missing. there are quite a few of us with high dose kitties. we love them to pieces, of course!!!!

acromegaly is from a tumor in the pituitary gland. it puts out a hormone that causes the cat to try to grow. soft tissue grows first, so we see bigger feet, the forehead can push forward so it's more vertical than slanted, sometimes there is a rattling, snoring sound when the cat breathes that is from excessive throat tissue rattling. stools can also be larger because the colon grows. the muzzle can spread out so it's rounder more than pointy-er. punkin had acro and the first thing i noticed was that his tongue had enlarged. the mechanism that causes the cat to need more insulin is that the tumor produces a hormone that mimics insulin and it blocks the body's own insulin from getting into the cells. imagine a lock with a key hole in it. insulin is the key that fits the lock and the hormone "clogs" the keyhole with its own cell. with an acro cat, we give higher doses of insulin to get enough to pass through into the cell.

iaa is when the body produces antibodies that bind up the insulin and prevent it from getting into the cells also. it is considered "self-limiting" which means that usually in a year or less, with good blood sugar management, the iaa "breaks" and goes away.

usually people have both tests run. the only lab in the US that does the testing is MSU. The two tests on this page are Insulin-like Growth Factor and Insulin auto-antibodies. http://animalhealth.msu.edu/Bin/Catalog.exe?Action=Search&SPECIES=Feline&PAGE=6&Page=7 :Your vet would draw the blood sample and send it to the MSU lab. The acro tests are run on Wednesdays and results go to your vet that Friday. the iaa tests are run whenever the blood sample arrives at the lab.

For now, regardless of any test results we would continue to follow this same protocol of 4 doses and increase. but it would be helpful to know which, if any, of these he has. You don't have to do the test right away, but whenever you're ready i wanted you to have the information.
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328

Julie, at the moment we don't have the extra money for the tests. But I'll definitely keep them in mind for the future.

I had mentioned originally that during his 2012 annual vet visit, Cobb had been diagnosed but that vet told us we could manage it with food alone. We had some other issues with that vet as well. That's when we found the Wvo dry for diabetic cats. Obviously now we know better. Then in April of 2013 was when we found our current vet and trusted what she was telling us. I say that to ask...since my poor Cobb has been an unregulated diabetic for at least a year and a half now, probably longer...could it be that he needs more insulin due to the damage that was probably done to his liver and pancreas?

His numbers today are "better." Not good, but better than they have been.

We'll stick with the 4 doses, which will mean an increase tonight.
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328

Hi Suzanne, good to see that Cobb is getting to the lower pinks, but I'm hoping the dosecrease will take his SS into the yellow zone.

None of us really know how long our cats were diabetic before they were diagnosed. Neko was diagnosed in December two years ago, but if I look back on it, she was showing signs of eating inappropriate foods 4-5 months before that. She wasn't peeing or drinking excessively, so I didn't take her into the vet for tests until her regular wellness exam.

It's hard to say why cats need higher doses of insulin without testing them. We do have examples (like Frank, who Tina took in) of cats who were unregulated diabetics for a while but he's not on a higher dose. One of the reasons we bring up testing, is that it is important to know if acromegaly is the cause. It's a benign tumor, but the excess growth hormone can cause other things to happen that are important to know about. It can cause organ growth, and enlarged hearts are a concern - especially if Cobb has a heart murmur. It's something that can be managed with medication, but you have to know to look for it. In Neko's case, she had a dental last week because she had a sore on her lower gum. Her regular vet was going to pull a tooth, but the dental specialist determined with Xrays that the tooth wasn't bad, and instead the tooth above was rubbing her gums. It is likely the soft tissue growth on her gums due to acromegaly that caused the problem. So instead of an extraction, the dental vet shaved back her upper tooth so it no longer touches the bottom gum.

Adding on to what Julie said above, Pepper is also IAA and we also have Wendy/Tiggy who tested positive for acromegaly. Tip has never been tested so we just suspect based on symptoms that she has acromegaly. There are two other high dose cats we've seen recently that weren't tested but are good examples of just keeping on increasing until you hit a good dose. They are Mr Grey and Charms GA. One doesn't usually see such an abrupt change at a good dose, but it can happen. Those SS also show that they came down the dosing scale quite quickly.
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328

Thanks Wendy! I'll definitely look into the testing. I don't really understand what IAA is. I've been watching for acromegaly symptoms in Cobb. The only things I've noticed are the higher dose and then the breathing, but since we took him off the dry food and restarted the insulin dose, his breathing has been completely normal. I know this because he sleeps right next to me. I know he doesn't have a heart murmur...the vet specifically mentioned he didn't at his last visit.

I did read up on the hard to regulate cat. I saw obesity can contribute to this, and we do know that Cobb is probably several pounds overweight at 17lbs. Maybe that is contributing to the higher dose as well.

I'm glad his numbers are looking better and do hope we're close. For now we'll stick with what we're doing and make sure to keep the high dose conditions in mind.
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328

IAA are insulin antibodies. This post has a decent definition of what it is. Basically kitties with IAA see a lot of high numbers until they get to a high enough dose to overcome the antibodies.
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328

Nice to see at least some lower pinks for Cobb Suzanne!

The iaa is only $16...I'm not sure how much the test for acromegaly is since it's not listed under that name and I'm not sure what the "official" name of the test might be, but they might not be as expensive as we first think. I don't know if there's an extra charge for shipping, and your own vet might charge something for the blood draw.

Maybe someone who's had the testing for acromegaly has an idea how much it cost them. At least then you'd have an idea of how many times you'd have to look through the couch cushions to find spare change :lol:

IAA test cost at MSU

Edited to add...FOUND it!! Insulin Like Growth Factor-1 test cost
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328 PMPS 303 - whaatttt?

YEAH! Check out that PMPS number!!! **please don't bounce, please don't bounce**

DH did everything tonight while I was out and didn't know we were upping to 6.5u so he'll spend tonight's cycle at 6u.
 
Re: 12/22 Cobb AMPS 369 +4.5 318 +7 328 PMPS 303 - whaatttt?

Nice start for this evening's cycle!!

The test for acromegaly is $52.00. What makes the testing a bit more expensive is whether your vet passes along the shipping charges to you. Since it's blood that's being shipped, there are additional costs. Donaleen/Ozy can probably tell you what it cost her since she recently had the tests run.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top