12/21/2011 Spitzer ... AARRGGHH!!

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BJM

BJM

Member Since 2010
Previously

Spitzer didn't look very good this morning; eyes gooped a lot (chronic herpes, yes, I use l-lysine).
He was very low this am, so I waited an hour and retested. He just wasn't very interested in eating, so wasn't really zooming.

Edited to add: his normal dose is 1.5 units, so basically, the following was a split dose situation

Gave a token shot of 0.5 units which wound up a partial fur shot.
Checked again at +2 and thought he was high enough to give 1 unit

AM
PS . 133 @ 7:53
+1 . 172 @ 8:48 tried to give 0.5 Lantus & had fur shot
+2 . 258 @ 9:57 gave 1.0 Lantus and it went in.
(periods are just space holders to line up columns better!!)

The Sophisticat seems a bit different this week - hard as a rock with lots of goop around it. I rinsed the goop off and added an entire can of the Pro Plan, but Spitzer was not real interested in eating. He's had the equivelant of a skinny 1.5 units.

Possibilities:
He's sick with something.
The Lantus dose is too high.
I need to change foods because there is something wrong with the Sophisticat or he's bored with it.
 
Bj,

Have you thought about trying either the split-dosing like I am with Musette or possibly t.i.d dosing to smooth him out some? Either one would give you less insulin in the cat should he decided to vomit or not eat enough.

I know the split-dosing with Musette has helped a lot to keep her from spiking into the pinks and reds, until I screwed up by giving her boiled chicken, which seems to be a major no-no for her.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Took Spitzer into the vet this afternoon. We've decided to go with anti-nausea and appetite stimulant meds for a while to see if that'll help.

I was aiming to do a curve on Saturday, at the 1.5 units, which I think may be insufficient, and I'm not sure how today's bobble in dosing will affect that. I'm thinking that if his +6s area too high, even without a curve, that raising the dose would be appropriate ... at least when he is eating.

TID dosing with Lantus really won't work with my schedule and sleep disorder; possibly split dosing may work, but I think he'd be stable on 2 units ... if he would just eat and keep it down. That is what seems to be the issue.

Because of his inappetance this morning, I did the canned food mix with a full can of the ProPlan, so he was elevated at +4, but I wanted to be sure he had enough calories in for the Lantus which did get on board (a skinny 1.5, as the initial .5 was partly a fur shot), as I had to pop out for a medical apt.
 
That was why I was thinking of possible split dosing that way you could give 1u and feed see if he is 1) going to eat and 2) keep it down before giving him that second 1u in a couple hours. If he does puke then you only have 1u and less likely to have a hypo brewing but also enough insulin to hopefully also avoid ketones from starting.

Just trying to figure out something that will help you get him down and keep him down without risking him going to far one way or the other, I know you guys have been struggling for awhile now and just like Musette there has to be an answer somewhere but it is obviously not working with a standard Lantus protocol.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
I gave him 1 of the meds when we got home from the vet. He'll eat a pill pocket, so I wrapped half of one around the half tablet, put it down, and it was gone. A couple hours later, he did eat dinner, with the half can of ProPlan mixed into the Sophisticat.

Looking over the past 2 weeks, I think I'm seeing a pattern - twice, he got a blue, then 12 hours later, he was in the red zone. Today, there was something between a split and a dose reduction (due to the partial fur shot of 0.5 units and the 1 unit an hour later)

With the split dosing, I'm wondering if 1.5 hours between the shots (7:30 & 9) would work OK and whether doing it with a larger 1st dose and a smaller 'chaser' dose would work. Say 1 + .5, or 1.25 + .5.
 
Might me worth a try, if it doesn't work you could always do .75 and .75 an hour and a half apart. I know when I first started with Musette before I would admit what I was doing on the board I was kind of doing that I would give her .5 at her normal time and then is still too high for my liking I would give her another .25u to .5u chaser.

It worked somewhat for her, but she really smoothed out splitting it in half and 1.5 hours to 2 hours apart depending on life's interruptions of having 13 starving cats to feed...but you know how that one goes...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
BJM said:
Previously


Gave a token shot which wound up a partial fur shot.
Checked again at +2 and thought he was high enough to give 1 unit
Click to expand...

I used to be a regular poster in the Lantus forum but due to time constraints I do not post as often as I would like but do lurk every now and then. I am not new to FD.......Putty has been on insulin for 3 years. Just wanted to give some background before I write the post I came to write.

BJ.....I know you do your own custom dosing or at least that is what it appears to me at a glance but for those newbies (and oldies) posting or lurking I would like to say that re-shooting after a suspected fur shot is never, ever advised. You really have no idea how much insulin did get into the cat. I have thought many times I did a partial or full fur shot only to have the numbers indicate that it was not a fur shot.
 
Miriam,

If you check BJ's spreadsheet you will see that even with the second shot, BJ didn't exceed Spitzer's normal dose. He has been getting 1.5u for awhile now. So giving him the additional unit after the possible fur shot of .5u doesn't exceed what would have been given had he gotten his regular morning shot. In my humble opinion that is no different than what I am doing with Musette with split-dosing.

No it isn't advisable to reshoot the normal dose twice because a suspected fur shot, but that isn't what happened here. Since neither BJ nor I are following the normal Lantus protocol because it doesn't work for our particular cats is the reason we aren't posting in Lantus-TR but in the "Relaxed" Lantus forum, which is the place for those of us that for whatever reason TR doesn't work for our cats. This isn't Lantus Land, we do things a little differently here, and I for one trust BJ to know her cat well enough after months of testing to know when it is safe to finish giving him his normal dose, plus she also had him to the vet as well yesterday.

Just my own personal 2 cents of the matter...Spitzer is a difficult cat, much like my own Musette, so we both have to handle their diabetes differently than what either of us would advise someone just starting out.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
If you reread my post I did not question BJ's dosing or anyone else's dosing methods here. I realize this is the "relaxed" forum and dosing etc. will be done differently.

Newbies starting in health or choosing to post in this forum first should know that reshooting insulin after a suspected fur shot is not advisable which was the only point I was trying to make. Most newbies are not reading other's spreadsheets so they may not know or understand how others may be dosing.

I did point out that I was aware of BJ's custom dosing plan....I did not question his plan or say anything that would give the impression that I was.

.
 
And all I did was point out that she didn't reshoot Spitzer's normal dose, that basically what happened yesterday was a split-dosing. That reshooting a normal dose twice is NOT advisable and what happened yesterday was done after months of testing and full knowledge that Spitzer is a difficult cat, that needs atypical dosing at times. So that anyone reading this thread would be aware that the approach that both BJ and I are taking with our particular cats is not something for a newbie to try.

We both have difficult cats that we have learned that with months of testing need a different approach to dosing, and either of us would advise what we are doing to a newbie. It wasn't an attack on what you said Miriam it was to further explain what was going on to anyone reading, that this isn't what is normal protocol, and was not technically reshooting after a suspected fur shot, but more akin to split-dosing since the normal dose was not exceeded.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Miriam

I appreciate the concern and I edited the first post to reflect the situation. This should ensure it is clear for anyone reading it, new or old, that I did not exceed his current total dose of 1.5 units, I merely divided it.
 
BJM said:
Miriam

I appreciate the concern and I edited the first post to reflect the situation. This should ensure it is clear for anyone reading it, new or old, that I did not exceed his current total dose of 1.5 units, I merely divided it.
Click to expand...


Thank you BJ. :smile:
 
And if I or anyone is unclear or confusing in what was written, it is appropriate to restate what you understood or to ask what was meant, either as a post, or if it is a sensitive topic, via a PM.

ie "It reads as though you did X. Is that what you meant?" Of, "if I understand what you wrote, you did X."

Often it is a case of "I know I understand what I thought I wrote ... but that isn't how you read it!".
 
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