12/18 Zeke PMPS=91;+2.5=54;+5.25=64;+6.75=58;+7.5=69

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MrZ

MrZ

Member Since 2013
Zeke's yesterday

Good afternoon LL.

Well, I went ahead and increased Zeke's dose to a shaved 2.0u this morning. Thanks Carl for the advice. :thumbup

Looks like he spent about 7 hours in Green this AM cycle. Keeping fingers and paws crossed this will be a good one for Zeke.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254; +9 = 98. A nice surf this AM

Beautiful surf! Looks like this dose might be the winner!! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254; +9 = 98. AMPS = 87 STALL? ADVICE PL

Sorry - I'm using the 911 icon because I need to know as soon as possible what I should do. I would normally be feeding and getting ready for his shot right now. However, I've not feed and I'm stalling. Should I retest in 15 to see if he's dropping? Last test he was as 98. Now he's down to 87. Please advise. Thanks.

I'll remove the 911 as soon as I know I have some experienced eyes on my post.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254; +9 = 98. AMPS = 87 STALL? ADVICE PL

Looks like it could be a surf and a double dip. If you can, stall 15 min and retest and post please :smile:
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254; +9 = 98. AMPS = 87 STALL? ADVICE PL

You can remove the 911 and replace it with a ? and in subject line put ...Shoot?
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254; +9 = 98. AMPS = 87 STALL? ADVICE PL

Yeah, this will be an easy call if he's up at next test. As per the "shooting low numbers" guidance, I've not fed and I'm prepared to test every 15 minutes (I know the drill). I was just wanting to get some advice from some experienced CGs in case it's not so clear cut. The more eyes the better.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254;+9= 98. AMPS= 87 STALLING? SHOOT? AD

Believe me...I hear you and feel your pain! :roll: :lol: Sometime, take a look at Twice's ss. He LOVES to mess with me!
Just want you to know someone is here, plus if I post to you it bumps you up ;-)
If he's up at all, I would shoot it. Especially since you're able to stay and test! Good luck and I'll keep an eye out for you :-D
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254;+9= 98. AMPS= 87 STALLING? SHOOT? AD

Do you have all the supplies you need, and will you be home tonight to test and monitor?

If it were me, and I was going to be home and was preparred, I would shoot and feed a good meal, and then start the testing at +1, but you could start the testing at +.5 if you feel more comfortable. To me, stalling just gets my shot schedule (which is tight for me) all out of whack and I often see cats just continue to drop because they haven't had any food and then the care giver often ends up skipping the shot, or are way way off schedule. Just my thoughts.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254;+9= 98. AMPS= 87 STALLING? SHOOT? AD

P.S., it looks like the last time you had to skip, he was red in the morning.
It's up to you. You need to do what makes you feel most comfortable. I can not stay up with you tonight, but I'm sure there will be others around to help you if you need it.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254;+9= 98. AMPS= 87 STALLING? SHOOT? AD

Dyana said:
If it were me, and I was going to be home and was preparred, I would shoot and feed a good meal
Click to expand...

Thanks Dyana. So what constitutes a "good" meal? I typically feed him 4% LC 1T to 2T. Lately, if he's high I feed him 2% & 4% (50/50). I don't want to feed him too much in case I need him to eat later (should he go too low).

I just shot (15 minutes late) - a newly increased dose of s2.0, he'd gone up slightly to 91 (I agree with you - don't want to get off schedule if I can avoid it).

I fed him 4% 1T plus about a tsp more. Is that enough food for now do you think? I can feed again at the +1.

I have supplies and will be home so we should be good but he's made me work hard on several occasions in the past. We'll see how it goes.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254;+9= 98. +12=87, AMPS(+12.15)=91

Oh, gosh no. I wasn't considering a skip - unless of course he was just continuing to drop. Fortunately, that wasn't the case. I want to keep the momentum on this new dose going. I'll be fine tonight, thanks. Usually, I ask for advice more on doses than anything. Though I do reserve the right to "panic" and post just for reassurance, more than anything.

I'm ready for the lather, rinse, repeat if it comes down to that ;-)

Thanks again.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke AMPS 254;+9= 98. +12=87, AMPS(+12.15)=91

Kim - Thanks for the bump.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1 109

great cycle for zeke today! i'm glad you went ahead and shot. he looks good at +1 - you know the routine, you just keep monitoring and give him carbs as you need to.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1 109

Nice shooting!

I think these belong to you...


:-D
 

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Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1 109;+2 = 62

Thanks Carl. 'Course now they feel like hot potatoes - I kinda wanna throw them to someone else. Here we go!

Testing in 15 minutes.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1 109;+2 = 62

okee-dokee... I'll keep an eye out. :smile:
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

Well, I'm trying to feed him enough to keep him from dropping (and actually would like to see a rise). Here's what I've given him:

+2.15 Fed: 2.5t 4% and 1t 7% and 12% Gravy (drop); Result: Dropped 8
+2.75 Fed: 1.5t 7% and 1/4t Gravy (12%); Result: No change
+3.0 Fed: 1.25t 7% and 1/4t Gravy (12%); Result: ??? (Will test at +3.5)

Would maple syrup be better than gravy? Do they both stay in the system about the same amount of time?

Is there anything different you think I should try to get him a little further away from 50 but still keep him in a good green surf?
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

It might take a bit more only because it's early in the cycle, and onset "should" just be hitting around now.
You can try just a tsp or two of gravy. That should bump him up a little, plus leave room in his belly. What you don't want is for him to feel "full" if you need to keep spooning food for a couple of hours.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

Zeke's not a big fan of gravy so I have to mix it in food. What gravy would you recommend I try? I using FF Elegant Medley's White Meat Chicken Florentine (in sauce) 12% carbs.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

Nice surfing Zeke. Neko once surfed at 53 for over 3 hours in the middle of the night. nailbite_smile

I use the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - it's 19% and has lots of gravy in it.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

Do maple syrup and gravy stay in the system about the same amount of time? He's not liking the gravy I have. May need to switch to maple syrup but it will have to be mixed in his food.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

I found that karo (corn syrup) didn't last as long as gravy for Neko. I haven't tried real maple syrup on her. I've also seen people use honey. You don't need to give HC to Zeke now, unless you are trying to get him high enough to get to sleep. Maybe more medium carb for a bit of safety margin?
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

for the next time, i'd take a look at the list and find a gravy cat food that is much higher in carbs - something upwards of 18%. there are some that are over 20% - i didn't use any but always thought that was smart to have something really high so just a tad will do. one person who taught me used a 24%.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

I agree with the others. If you can find a gravy style that is higher in carbs, like the 18% stuff, it would be a good thing to have. What I said earlier is geared more towards getting the most carbs in while leaving room in his tummy for more if needed. If he'll only take the gravy if it is mixed in with food, you run into the possibility that you're trying to bump up his BG for three or four hours, and all of a sudden, he has no appetite because he's stuffed to the gills. They you end up having to rub syrup on his gums in order to get his numbers up.

Karo doesn't seem to last as long as gravy from the condo's I've read or the times I've stayed up late on "hypo-watch". It really does come down to ECID when it comes to this though. Every cat responds to "carbing up" in his or her own way. The best thing you can do is keep good notes on what it takes any time he goes low. That gives you a good idea as to what will work "next time".
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+3=54

Just FYI, I never had to do "this" with Bob. He never dropped so low (that I caught on the meter anyway) where I had to nurse up his numbers to get him through a cycle. I only saw the 40's twice in the ten weeks he was on insulin. In both cases, it was right around nadir time (5 hours after his shot) and all it took was a half can of FF low carb to get the numbers up. Really, Bob was "easy" compared to most kitties I've watched. I was extremely fortunate, but I didn't realize that at the time.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52

Yes, actually I would like to go to bed. I've been feeding him, hoping he'd start to rise so I could stop feeding and wait the 2 hours to go to bed. I just gave him 1/2t of 17% gravy so I'm hoping next test he'll be up a bit so I can stop feeding him. I don't have higher carb food/gravy because in the past I hadn't needed it. In the past I was able to just give him the higher LC food (5%, 7% or 9%) and that would get him up. Things have changed. I'm now trying to figure out what will work now.

Here's a recap of what I've given him tonight and the result:

+2.15 Fed: 2.5t 4% and 1t 7% and 12% Gravy (drop); Result: Dropped 8 to 54
+2.75 Fed: 1.5t 7% and 1/4t Gravy (12%); Result: No change
+3.0 Fed: 1.25t 7% and 1/4t Gravy (12%); Dropped 2
+3.75 Fed: 1/2t 12% Gravy & 1/4t 11% Gravy; Stayed at 52
+4.25 Fed: 1/2t 11% Gravy; Stayed at 52
+4.75 Fed: 1/2t 17% Gravy; Result: ??? (Will test at +5.25)

The surf's great, but I'd prefer a little more wiggle room so that I don't have to test so frequently. Surfing in the 70s or 80s would be just fine with me.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52

Understand completely. Imagine where he might have gone without the efforts you've put forth in the past 3 hours. nailbite_smile Just keeping him flat hasn't been easy.

It's sort of incredible the difference in the numbers just from a .25u increase isn't it? Makes me think that maybe the "right dose" is someplace in between the two?
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52

Yes Carl, I agree. Gosh, but it's so hard to even get the current dose measured out consistently - and really I can't say we're doing that successfully although we're really trying.

I wish they made a pen that would measure out to a .10u accuracy. That would be awesome.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+1=109;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52

It'll be interesting to see what the 17% gravy does to him this time. It looks like he usually has hit his nadir and on the way up by +6. If the 17% doesn't budge him, you might want to break out a bit of syrup again. It would be nice to get him up enough so you can slow down the poking and get him past nadir and into rising number territory.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

Yeah, he's up a bit. I'm not gonna test again for an hour. And no more food until the normal 4:00 AM feeding. Oh, that brings a question to mind. I know he's not supposed to eat 2 hours before shot time but what's the longest acceptable fasting period before a shot? Four or five hours?
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

I don't think there is a "maximum" fasting period? Some people only feed two to three times a day. When Bob was on the juice, he ate every six hours, so his last feeding was at +6 every cycle.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

Thanks Wendy, Carl and Julie for checking in on me and Zeke and providing your insights. Most appreciated.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

Neko gets a +4 meal at night, then nothing but pokie treats until AMPS. I think it's common to only feed in the first half of the cycle. The insulin is waning after nadir and will have to work harder if you feed it then. Some people have cats that get upset tummies from lack of food and they'll get a later snack. Having said that, Neko gets a small +9 snack during the day. She had one then before Dx and she's not one to break a habit of getting food - I just try to make sure it's 0-2 carbs max.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

Ok, so Zeke's shot is typically at 7:00 AM. So, I don't need to get up at 4:00am anymore? I'd been doing that to make sure he ate a little something but nothing else 2 hours before shot time. So, like say tonight, since I've been feeding him through 11:15PM, I could go to bed say at 1:15 AM, maybe feed him a little then and then not feed him again until shot time? OMG - this would make my life so much easier.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

Wendy, I just saw your post. So really, I probably don't need to feed Zeke anything until shot time (assuming he doesn't drop in the next 2 hours).
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

Carl & Bob (GA) said:
Imagine where he might have gone without the efforts you've put forth in the past 3 hours.
Click to expand...

OMG - It's ONLY been 3 hours. It feels like so much longer.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

You're very welcome, Laura.
I can't speak for the others, but the way I think... the longer I do this, and the more times I interact with a kitty and bean, it's kinda that whole "FDMB family" thing. Each kitty sort of captures a tiny piece of my heart. We share the happys and the sads, and the stresses and the green smilies. From where I sit, without a sugarkitty of my own, all this is a lot easier on me than on you. Sure, there are days when "life" interferes, and days when I don't have much to offer in the way of help, but overall? This is a very positive experience for me. :-D I'm just glad I can help when I can.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS 91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64

So really, I probably don't need to feed Zeke anything until shot time (assuming he doesn't drop in the next 2 hours).
Click to expand...
Yup, as long as he's on the upswing without influence of food! :-D

As for trying to get accurate doses, a number of us have switched to using calipers. Marge did a post on Dosing with Calipers that explains it. I like that it means consistency from dose to dose, plus I can tell DH what the caliper measurement is and know that he'll dose the same amount as I do. Of course, I still need magnifiers but it does take some of the guess work out.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS=91;+2=62;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64;+6.75=

Whoa, he's down a little bit. I can't go to bed yet. I guess I won't feed for now and I'll take another test in 30 - 45 minutes. I just wish he wasn't back down in the 50s.
 
Re: 12/18 Zeke PMPS=91;+2.5=54;+4.5=52;+5.25=64;+6.75=58

It's just six points. Basically, he's been flat since +2. The good news is that he has held his own without food recently. And should be past nadir by now. He was only at 91 when you got on the ride at PMPS, right?
This is what a Lantus curve is supposed to look like.:-) Pretty flat. This is the "shoot low to stay low" principle at work. Ideally, he'd do this without all to food propping up his numbers of course. And you would be sleep deprived.
But this is all "good" stuff. :-)
In 45 from that test, it will be +7.5. If he's 60-70, give him a snack and you should be able to get some sleep.

More good news... He didn't bounce. He might later, or two weeks from now. But he didn't tonight.
 
You called it Carl. He's at 69. Yeah, I get to go to bed now (and not have to wake at 4:00 am). Thanks again for your advice and insights. We'll see what Zeke has in store for us tomorrow.

Good night.
 
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