12/15, sam, AMPS 452, +1 403, ketones detected, +11 110, PMPS 92, PMPS 81

I really dont see how him being red is a positive sign. He used to be used to far lower numbers, wouldnt bounce from low blues and would recover far quicker. He’s drinking more, eating more, and has now lost half a pound in 3 weeks. I just weighed him. He was 13 3 weeks ago, 12.4 now. So 0.6 lbs, so he’s been losing a fifth of a pound per week since i started reducing his dose.
 
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So honestly with the weight loss i’m gonna have to increase his dose. He’s trending higher, has drank a crap tonne today, etc etc. without insulin he wouldn’t bounce at all; his numbers keep going higher and higher. That’s his highest reading i’ve ever taken.
 
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I’m not an expert at all but if you’re following TR I’m curious why you didn’t stay at 1.5 after his bg of 45 the other day? Maybe this was already discussed in a previous discussion.
 
My dad just stopped by, he put some non absorbable beads in sams litterbox. He’s coming back in 2 hrs to do a ketone test on the urine. He bought ketostix
 
UPDATE; My dad had to leave earlier than he thought, he stopped at my apartment on his way home. There was more than enough urine on those beads. He said the ketostick was in the “trace” range, so 5 mg/dl, though it might’ve been slightly darker he said. I’ll be doing one on my own when i get home. So above 5 mg’s but below 15
 
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Could you update his sheet, I don't see anything for today? I'm not a pro either but honestly his sheet does look pretty good!
I know how hard it can be to be patient, I'm still trying to figure it out!
 
Carole & Indigo said:
Could you update his sheet, I don't see anything for today? I'm not a pro either but honestly his sheet does look pretty good!
I know how hard it can be to be patient, I'm still trying to figure it out!
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Yeah, at work, don’t have access to it right now. I’m just more worried about the weight loss and ketones.
 
My dads going to test him again around 4. He said he can see the weight loss on him. Kind of amazing he’s lost 0.2 lbs per week for 3 weeks! That’s about a deficit of 100 kcals per day. He did seem more lethargic this morning and wasn’t eating much, i don’t know if this is DKA or he’s just tired.
 
Carole & Indigo said:
Has Sam had DKA in the past? If so you should add that info to your signature, if no I would take a bit of a breath :bighug:
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I was told that he had ketones in his urine at diagnosis in august by the first vet. Didn’t say he had DKA, just said he was significantly more than whats normal
 
chuckstables said:
Wasnt on TR at the time; i’ve been very tempted to take him back up.
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If he’s not acting like he should be you are very wise to be concerned. I am not experienced with ketone values so can’t offer help there but it would be good if you indicate on your spreadsheet when you started TR. people usually put the date switched at the top next to dosing method and also put an extra line in the spreadsheet to indicate TR started on such and such date and everything below is TR.
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Anything above trace on ketones is a visit to the vet. In the mean time, he needs to eat and get plenty of fluids. Water down his food. Putting "ketones at Dx" would be helpful, to know he's prone to ketones.

A safe weight loss program is 1-2% of their current body weight per week: https://catinfo.org/feline-obesity-an-epidemic-of-fat-cats/#Implementing_a_Safe_Weight-Loss_Program
chuckstables said:
He was 13 3 weeks ago, 12.4 now. So 0.6 lbs, so he’s been losing a fifth of a pound per week since i started reducing his dose.
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1-2% of 13 lbs is 2 oz. Over 3 weeks that means around 6 oz, so yes, he's been losing too much weight. Time to feed him more if he'll eat it.

I think going back to 1.25 units is a good idea. The greens he got on 1.25 units could have been from the 1.5 unit depot. The larger depot influences 4-6 cycles after a reduction.
 
chuckstables said:
He’s not eating any less, and his AMPS are trending upwards, all his numbers are trending up.
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Don't worry about the preshot values - those are only important to tell you if it's safe to shoot. It's the lows that are important and tell us how to change the dose. You did get an AMPS yesterday of 113, best number in 10 days. I too agree that he's just bouncing, but the ketones concern me so think you need to increase and feed more. What is he eating now, maybe a food that is higher calorie? (not carbs)
 
My dad just went over there, he’s kinda worried about sam. He still hasnt eaten. He tried to give him a bit of dry food, he ate a bit but went back to bed. Don’t have the carrier at my place right now so we can’t take him in. 2nd ketone test showed the same as the first. Him not eating is normal when his blood sugar is high though. Just worried; don’t want him going downhill suddenly over the next week
 
I agree with Wendy. Give him more food and fluids and increase the dose. It is food and insulin that keeps ketones at bay. If he won’t eat his normal food give him what ever he will eat. Eating trumps everything when ketones are in the picture.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I agree with Wendy. Give him more food and fluids and increase the dose. It is food and insulin that keeps ketones at bay. If he won’t eat his normal food give him what ever he will eat. Eating trumps everything when ketones are in the picture.
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I have someone with hum now, being told he’s eating like 5 pellets of dry food then going back to bed. Getting worried, gonna see how he‘s doing when i get home.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Don't worry about the preshot values - those are only important to tell you if it's safe to shoot. It's the lows that are important and tell us how to change the dose. You did get an AMPS yesterday of 113, best number in 10 days. I too agree that he's just bouncing, but the ketones concern me so think you need to increase and feed more. What is he eating now, maybe a food that is higher calorie? (not carbs)
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Don’t have any calorie rich low carb foods. I have 18% carv dry food, 650 kcal per cup.
 
+11 110, he’s eating now. Giving some wet food, gonna have to start feeding him more. I was doi g 1.4-1.6 cans per day, maybe closer to 2? Left some more beads out. Hopefully i can get one more ketone test
 
chuckstables said:
Thanks. I’m so stressed. Just trying to get him to eat is hard
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Yes it sucks. Panzer has chronic pancreatitis, he's had a couple of flare ups since I've been on this site. It was very hard to get him to eat, I had to give him Cerenia, ondansetron, & mirtaz. I also tried putting fortiflora & parmesan cheese on his food. Even without having pancreatitis he turns his nose up to food, so I always have fortiflora on hand because he will eat anything I give him with it on it. He's never had ketones though, I just know food fluids & insulin for that. Now he's low when your supposed to increase & doesn’t want to eat :banghead:
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Yes it sucks. Panzer has chronic pancreatitis, he's had a couple of flare ups since I've been on this site. It was very hard to get him to eat, I had to give him Cerenia, ondansetron, & mirtaz. I also tried putting fortiflora & parmesan cheese on his food. Even without having pancreatitis he turns his nose up to food, so I always have fortiflora on hand because he will eat anything I give him with it on it. He's never had ketones though, I just know food fluids & insulin for that. Now he's low when your supposed to increase & doesn’t want to eat :banghead:
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Uggghh. That would suck. Sam started to eat again, so that's good. And he must've bounced hard; I didn't read it correctly this morning, just checked the meter. He was at 452!!!! I'm thinking MAYBE he bounced last night, because I woke up this morning and he was going crazy for food, but then I fed him and went back to bed as I was dead. Should've tested, probably would've shown dangerously low numbers.
 
chuckstables said:
Uggghh. That would suck. Sam started to eat again, so that's good. And he must've bounced hard; I didn't read it correctly this morning, just checked the meter. He was at 452!!!! I'm thinking MAYBE he bounced last night, because I woke up this morning and he was going crazy for food, but then I fed him and went back to bed as I was dead. Should've tested, probably would've shown dangerously low numbers.
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He had such a flat cycle, but he could have bounced. Anything is possible with are crazy kitty's little bodies.
 
Well I could skip his dose tonight, but I think I'll just wait another half hour and shoot 1 unit. He's eaten a decent amount so far; his problem is when he gets an active cycle he hates eating wet food. But I managed to get him to eat.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
He's food bumped so I would definitely get a +2
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Absolutely. I'll be up with him, I'm terrified. I'm going to my NA meeting right now; I'll be back by 11 (it was 9:24 pm when I gave him his PM shot), do you think that's okay? The meeting goes from 9:45 to 10:45 and is about 5 minutes walk away. Or would you suggest I just do it by zoom and monitor him?

EDIT: Nevermind, definitely just gonna do it by zoom. No need to leave him now.

EDIT2: if he drops at +2 I'm just gonna give him some honey, he actually really loves honey. Hates corn syrup, but I can drop two drops of honey on a plate and he will devour it.
 
Sorry. I'm just seeing the tags. Looks like you will be back by +1.5? Did he eat with the shot? If yes, it might be okay for you to leave him since it's only for an hour.

I will post in greater detail, but sending this out so you see it.
 
With TR, you can shoot any number over 50 (on a human meter), especially if you can monitor. You have shot as low as 72 before and 99 just a few nights back. Stalling without food can cause the numbers to drop making the shooting decision even harder. Looks like he is clearing the bounce which is why he was continuing to drop even at the end of the cycle. With ketones in the picture skipping the shot is not an option.

Looks like you shot 2 hours late tonight? Did he eat at +12 and was the 130 at +14? In that case, the test may not have been food influenced. Though dry food tends to stay in the system longer.
 
chuckstables said:
Absolutely. I'll be up with him, I'm terrified. I'm going to my NA meeting right now; I'll be back by 11 (it was 9:24 pm when I gave him his PM shot), do you think that's okay? The meeting goes from 9:45 to 10:45 and is about 5 minutes walk away. Or would you suggest I just do it by zoom and monitor him?

EDIT: Nevermind, definitely just gonna do it by zoom. No need to leave him now.

EDIT2: if he drops at +2 I'm just gonna give him some honey, he actually really loves honey. Hates corn syrup, but I can drop two drops of honey on a plate and he will devour it.
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I would say it's safe to go to your meeting or you could just do a zoom meeting...proud of you!
 
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