12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46, pmps/198

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alicia.1771

alicia.1771

Member Since 2011
Last post 11/30/11 -- http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=57634

amps - 359
+5 - 46, 2nd test to confirm = 52 -- fed 1/2 FFC chicken feast which is his normal snack at this time.

Ok, totally not expecting this drop at all! Came home and find out he only ate about 1/2 to 3/4 can of FFC this morning instead of his normal 1 + 1/4 can. Maybe that accounted for the super drop???

** Need some eyes to help me through this low# since it has been a while since we had to deal with double digits.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Ok..retest 30 minutes from when you last fed him.

These numbers are ok....breathe. Please post when you get the next test.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

He's still hungry so fed him another 1/4 can of FFC.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Please be sure you test before you feed so we can get an accurate number .....we just need to be sure he is coming up.

Once he's up, please continue to monitor him. I'm not able to stay with you all afternoon...I'm working but just caught this 911.

Once you get me his next number, then we'll decide where to go from there. You can take the "911" off please.

Thank you!!!
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

+5.5 - 55

Took the 911 off first post. He still seems hungry, can I feed him more? He only ate 1/2 of his breakfast this morning and what I fed him is about his normal snack meal. Test in another 15min or 30min?

I'm also working today, actually just came home for lunch break to check on him. Had to call-into work and explain my situation.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Yes...just feed him low carb food....he's doing absolutely fine at this number.

Once you feed, pls retest him in another 30 minutes. 55 is a safe number for him to stay at.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Alicia:

Since I'm working, I got Ann to jump in to watch and make sure all is ok. So, just go ahead as I suggested and if he's hungry only feed LC and recheck 30 mins after the last test. Post and Ann will take it from there.

Thank you...he's doing great!!!
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Thanks Marjorie for helping me out :)

Next test is coming up in 15min and will post then.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Hi Alicia, marje just called me. You are looking fine now. don't feed too much at once, he needs to be willing to eat if he drops again. When is his usual nadir? If he is at or past it it's good to only feed LC if possible.

It's a balancing act with having enough time after food to get a good reading, feeding enough to keep him up, but hunngy enough to still eat if you need feed again.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

+6 - 65

Hi Ann -- Thanks for checking in! We are so new to Lantus (only started just 3 weeks ago on 11/12 pm shot) so we don't have a pattern for nadir yet. When he was on Prozinc he nadirs around +5 to +6. On Lantus he seems to nadir late, a few times his lowest # is his PMPS#. And on the weekends when I do curves he is usually bouncing so we're in the pinks and red zones throughout most of the curve. If you have time perhaps you can take a look at his SS and see if you can see a pattern?

I'm thinking another test in 30min and if it's still rising is it safe for me to go back to work? And leave some LC food out for him just in case?
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Did you feed him this time? We like to see 2 rising numbers without food influence. Definitely check again in 30 minutes. I'll take a look at your SS.

Where are you in Orange county? I live up near San Luis Obispo. :-D
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Without more tests it's sort of hard to determine Beau's nadir. From what I can tell it seems to be in the =4 to +6 range. those days when you saw the "late" nadir were probably bounces clearing. Often when coming out of a bounce BGs just keep dropping as the liver stops putting out glucagon.

The reason we want to see 2 rising tests without food is that the food masks whether we are seeing an actual nadir or not.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Oops, I did feed him more food cuz he was still hungry...

Recap:
+5 -- 46 & 52 --> fed 3/4 can FFC chicken feast which is his normal snack at this time.
+5.5 -- 55 --> fed 1/4 can FFC chicken feast
+ 6 -- 65 --> fed 1/2 HM (~1 oz mixture of FFC and NV frozen chicken medallion)
+6.5 -- 63 --> no food

Will not give any more food until next test at +7, coming up in 15min.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Good. Let's hope he keeps going up. If he goes down again you will need to give him a little more LC. How critical is it for you to get back to work soon?
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Your kitty looks like a munchkin (I think that's what they're called), the kitties with the short legs. Is he? Cute as can be!!!
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

Hi Patty! -- hahaha....no, Beau's not a munchkin, it's the angel of the picture (I was standing up with the camera pointing downward) so it kind of created a special effect :)

Hi Ann, here is the latest update:

+5 -- 46 & 52 --> fed 3/4 can FFC chicken feast which is his normal snack at this time.
+5.5 -- 55 --> fed 1/4 can FFC chicken feast
+ 6 -- 65 --> fed 1/2 HM (~1 oz mixture of FFC and NV frozen chicken medallion)
+6.5 -- 63 --> no food
+7 -- 65 --> no food

He seems to be holding steady. I can get one more test in but have to get back to work. There was a meeting scheduled at 3:30pm today that the office pushed it back to 5pm for me, so I can't stay any longer after the next test. Can you guys help me with a plan of action for the following scenarios just in case?

If rising to > 70 --> we're safe?
If holding around 60's --> leave LC out?
If dropped --> leave HC out?
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

How soon before shot time do you get home? Getting one more test in is great, if you are home 2 hours before shot time I'd leave some LC out even if Beau is still up and above 70. Generally we don't want them to eat closer than 2 hours before shot time for a clear test. But if you can't get home it's your call if you want to leave the food out. You'll just need to watch a little closer in the evening.

If he is going down again, get him to eat HC and leave some out since you have to leave. Better to have a food spike than chance going too low. I think he is probably surfing though.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

You're doing great. Leaving some food out as a back up plan is a good idea.

FWIW, the next time this happens, think of feeding in terms of teaspoons of food vs. 1/4 of a can. You want to feed small amounts to Beau doesn't fill up.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

+5 -- 46 & 52 --> fed 3/4 can FFC chicken feast which is his normal snack at this time.
+5.5 -- 55 --> fed 1/4 can FFC chicken feast
+ 6 -- 65 --> fed 1/2 HM (~1 oz mixture of FFC and NV frozen chicken medallion)
+6.5 -- 63 --> no food
+7 -- 65 --> no food
+7.5 -- 64 --> no food

He seems to be surfing. I just spoke to my manager and he's kind enough to move the meeting to tomorrow for me so I can take the rest of the day off and stay to monitor Beau. He's still hungry though, do I need to continue to hold off food or can I feed him some more?

Sienna -- Beau normally gets 1/2 can of FFC during his +5 check. So if this happens next time I should split up his snack to teaspoon portions?
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

What a great boss! So many other people think we are just nuts.

You could feed him a little more now but not too much. i'd check hourly at this point. And yes, if it happens again and you think that you might need to intervene w/ food I'd spread it out. he seems to like to eat though and you know your cat best. Beau might just eat whatever you give him. :lol:
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- NEED EYES!!!

SWEET!!!!

celi

Munchkin????? AWESOME!!!
Dorothy-Binks

220px-Munchkins-film.jpg
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

Like Ann suggested, portion out the +5 feeding. If you give Beau his usual amount all at once and he decides he's liking these green numbers, you could end up with a very, ummmmmm, "round" kitty.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

:lol: thanks for the humor Sienne! I needed that :)

+8.5 -- 78

He is starting to come up. Thinking ahead to pm shot which is coming up in 2.5 hours, our lowest PS# on Lantus was 241 on 11/26 where I shot a 1.75u, after that it's all > 297 on 2.0u. This morning was our 2nd cycle on 2.25u so I wonder what his PMPS# would be after this dip and what to give as his pm dose? I know on Lantus it's the nadir we use to dose with some consideration to PS, but I don't think I'm comfortable shooting into a much lower than normal PS# just yet. But knowing Beau he'll probably bounce back to his favorite colors :lol:

[Side note] -- thinking back to this morning I have a theory of his low # today. When I draw Lantus from the pen into U-100 syringe I always draw more to get rid of air bubbles, then eject the extra (usually less than 1 drop) unto a tissue paper which I later use to hold off his ear poke. This morning I overdrew a bit more than normal (about 1-2 drops) so the paper was slightly damp to the touch. While holding off his ear poke I wondered if the insulin on the paper would be absorbed through his ear poke and I'm thinking that's what happened since it's a direct access to his blood stream. Because I don't see how else his number would be so low considering the lowest reading we've got on Lantus was 118, and that was with a PS of 241.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

Alicia:

Hmmmm...I doubt very seriously he got more insulin through the ear poke. It's not rare for kitties to clear bounces and drop like this; check out Mikey's SS...he just did the same thing the other day.

I know you work but if there is any way you can do his shot so you can get a +2 before you go, it would often let you know what kind of day he might have. The +2 "should" be about the same as the PS. If it is lower by more than meter variance, you should expect an active cycle. I bet today you would have seen a +2 that was much lower than 359.

Two things:
1. Beau is a newly diagnosed kitty even though he was on PZI; he has been diabetic less than one year. A newly diagnosed kitty earns a .25u reduction when they go below 50. He got to 46.

2. Please do a +11 or +11.5 and post his number. If he is not zooming up and gives you a low number, someone can walk you through stalling, shooting the new dose, etc. If his number is zooming up, someone can discuss with you whether you
want to take the reduction tonight or shoot through the bounce ONE time and take the reduction tomorrow.

Sound like a plan?
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

I'd get a +11 and post you question again. He may be in much more comfortable numbers by then. :-D Oh, I see Marje just answered this too.

It could be that Beau was ready to clear his bounce when you gave the increase. What ever the cause, the +5 46 earned him a reduction. :mrgreen: Although we say 6 cycles cats can take differing amounts of time to adjust to a dose, just like thy do with everything. Tess just had an 11cycle bounce and then cleared it in grand style! ohmygod_smile You made a great catch today and handled it well. You will start to know where Beau is leading in this sugar dance.

I too don't think the insulin would be absorbed from the tissue. Furshots happen and then the insulin is directly on the skin and we never see it effecting the cat.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

+10 -- 118

He's coming up. Will post his +11 in 30min.

Thank you everyone for helping me through today :) I'm so happy Beau earned a reduction!

Marjorie -- unfortunately I work a 10-12 hour shift and sometimes longer. Currently his shot time is when I wake up and about 30min before I walk out the door because I've been staying up late monitoring him. If I move his shot time up for the +2 hour window, there will be many times when I can't make it back home from work to give his pm shot.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

Great...glad he's coming up!!!

I understand...I used to work those 10-12 hour days, too, but DH was here to monitor Grace.

Congrats on the reduction. See you on the hour.
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

+11 -- 169

If his pmps is > 200, is it safe for me to shoot the reduced dose of 2.0u?
 
Re: 12/1 Beau - amps/359, +5/46 -- need PM dose advise!

Yes....with your work situation, etc., I think you should take the reduction tonight and shoot on time. Can you monitor at least +2 and make sure he is still headed up?
 
Good....please be sure and get a +2; his +2 should be at least around his PMPS. If it's lower, you'll need to get more tests.

Great job today!!! What an awesome boss you have.
 
I'm thinking he might bounce although that is not a huge spike.

Can you sleep/test? If so, I'd do a +4 and if he's still coming up, I'd call it a night.

Nice work today and don't forget about the reduction tomorrow :-D
 
Beau is probably bouncing from the low numbers he isn't used to anymore. I think one more test and you can get to sleep. Ni Ni
 
+3 -- 223

Will get one more test in 30min then head off to bed.

Marjorie -- I already reduced his dose from 2.25u to 2.0u tonight, do I need to reduce further tomorrow or just keep the 2.0u? Thanks!
 
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