12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385 +5:256 PMPS:601 +2:594 +4:543 +6:569

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Barn Cats R Us

Barn Cats R Us

Member Since 2011
Marilyn was feeling pretty good yesterday. She jumped up on "her" antique chair, for the first time in a couple months. That was one of big signs I was waiting for, however, I thought it would have come with much lower numbers.

Now, it's another day. The vomiting, somewhere around AM +2 is worrisome. She was laying in it...that has me scratching my head too. The AM +4 is the first time she's gone "yellow" on Lantus. I realize low numbers are what we're "shooting" for...but her Lantus data, thus far, gives me nothing to go on. I don't know what to expect, and although my "little orange terror" is loving all the attention lately...I really need sleep. Anyone have any clues for me?

Marilyn's Yesterday 11/30/11: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=57637

Marilyn's Today 12/01/11:
AMPS = 385
AM Dose Increase + 0.25 = 1.25u
+2.5 = Vomited Large Amount Friskies Mixed Grill from AMPS
+3 = 312; Gave 1/2 Can DM
+4 = 268
+4 Ketones = 0.0 mmol/L
+5 = 256
PMPS = 600+ = HI = Off the Meter
+2 = 594
+4 = 543
+5 = 530
+6 = 569
+9 = 525
+9 Ketones = 0.3 mmol/L
 
Re: 12/01/11 Marilyn: AMPS:385 / 0.25 Dose Increase / Vomite

Why is she still coming down after eating? I got the DM in her after she vomited.
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

I don't have any advice. Did she keep down what she ate after the pukey episode? I hope her tummy is settled down now and all is well.
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

Morning, just some support here for you. Sometimes Maggie vomits as she tends to eat too fast. Maybe the Mixed Grill didn't agree with her, just a guess. Try feeding small amounts with her tummy still upset. Sending feel better vines to Marilyn.
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

Yes, she kept it down so far. I'm kinda panicked, since she just had a dose increase, has never gone this "low" on Lantus, and went lower an hour after eating...and don't know, but think "lower" is still to come. I know it's not like she's going lower on a green...I just don't know what to expect.
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

The Lantus, and Marilyn, are doing exactly what they should so try not to worry. Her numbers are supposed to go down, even with food, until she reaches her nadir. Her nadir isn't a set number either. I know some people not well versed in Lantus think it's always +6, but it can be anywhere Marilyn wants it to be, and then she'll change her mind the next day. Her nadir can be anywhere from +3 to +7 on any given day. This is why a lot of us become testaholics. God forbid out cat should hit his nadir and we don't catch it!!! I would definitely stay away from the DM unless it's all she'll eat after puking. It she throws up, just give her frequent, small meals so she can't scarf and barf.

I hope you have a great fursday!!
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

Thanks Patty.

It sounds encouraging. Although, it would be a waste of energy to "try not to worry"...so I'll stick with full blown worry. You have a great fursday too. :-D

Deb
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

Hi guys .. don't think we have stopped into marilyn's condo before, so welcome from us! It sure is a big worry, making sure we catch all the right numbers at all the right time's .. sometimes we manage that and it still throws us off .. just remember to take a nice deep breath and relax .. it will get easier, we promise!
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

Patty is rightm Marilyn's numbers are coming down because the Lantus has onset. Remember too that meters are only required to be within 20% +/-, so her numbers are really pretty flat.
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: Dose Increase/Vomited/Why Still Coming Do

If you have time, try to update your first subject line with Marilyn's BG's from today. I just took a look at her SS and she's looking fantastic! She's very flat yellow which is so much better than pink/red/black!!! Don't hesitate to shoot her full PM dose if she has a yellow number. As a matter of fact, if you can, try not to feed her anymore today until her PMPS and check her +10 or +11 so we know where she was at that time compared to what her PMPS number will be. If her PMPS is a rising number, you'll be good to shoot her full dose if she's 150 or above, as long as you can test her for the first few hours after shot time. If she insists on a snack late in the AM cycle, you can give her about half an ounce of people chicken, raw or cooked (with nothing on it). That's a no-carb food and shouldn't affect her BG with that small amount, but will satisfy her until dinnertime. For shooting under 150, I would definitely ask Sienne, Laurie, or one of the other "expert" people for their advice. I know I shoot numbers in the 60's, but I've been at this a lot longer and have a better idea of how my cat will react. Anyway, good job today!!!
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385, +3:312, +4:268, +5:256, PMPS:60

Hi Patty,

Didn't get the +10, or +11...since I tried to sleep at +6.5 for a half-hour...only to find it had been 5 hours. She didn't eat anything between AM +3, and PMPS. I better go back to the stickies, because I'm really not understanding these numbers, or why food doesn't bring up the BG within an hour, or so, due to Lantus having "onset". If food doesn't increase BG, how would I ever handle a hypo situation? And, why so black & red during the PM cycles? The confusion is taking hold. :?

Thanks Everyone,

Deb
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385, +3:312, +4:268, +5:256, PMPS:60

Deb:

You want her to come down once you've given her insulin. When there is a hypo where you need to get them up, if she's in the 40s, THEN you would use HC food which should bring her up.

Cats have different sensitivity to foods regarding the amount of carbs. Some cats are very carb sensitive and you can give them a LC food and it will stop them cold. Others need much higher carb foods in response to really low numbers.

Right now, do not worry about this......the insulin is doing it's job and so is the food. The LC foods at regular intervals help to control the curve by keeping the BG from dropping like a hot potato. Example: when Gracie was on lantus, she gave me a 300 one morning. I gave her breffis (LC) at PS. At +1, I went to give her a minimeal but then the doorbell rang and I got distracted and Tobey ate her food. When I rechecked her BG at +2....it was 50 because she had no food to balance the onset of the insulin. Marilyn's curve this a.m. looks great.

Her high numbers tonight could be a variety of things: a bounce from the 256 (lower than she is used to) or it could be new dose wonkiness (NDW). For some reason unknown, sometimes an increase in insulin causes the BG to temporarily go up. But if it is NDW, it will come back down.
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385, +3:312, +4:268, +5:256, PMPS:60

Unfortunately, Marilyn is a bounc-aholic. Just a toe touch into the yellows is enough to get her liver to panic and cause her to bounce. Just about all kitties bounce, but just about all kitties learn to like the lower floors and get off the trampoline. Each cat differs in how long this process takes...some are quick learners and some, like my Champ, just keep having to go back to LTS (liver training school).
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385 +5:256 PMPS:601 +2:594 +4:543 +6

Hi All,

Marje & Patty: Thanks for explaining. I'm trying to understand this, however, it looks to me like the liver didn't panic from just the sight of yellow. She's black & red every PM cycle until at least +9, so if a liver bounce is to blame, it (her liver) also doesn't like purple...or it only likes afternoon, & night work. Also, if today's "off the meter" PMPS is due to "new dose wonkiness", it would be impossible to tell, since PM blacks & reds seem typical so far. I think I need a GPS unit to fully understand the map from Humulin House to Lantus Land. Humulin was simple...it went in...it went out. I decided to try Lantus so I could avoid Humulin TID dosing, and because it would be better for Marilyn...two birds...one stone.

The reason I need to "worry", or better yet, understand this now, is because I would rather have a full understanding while in yellows, as opposed to cramming for an exam while she's diving in greens.

Marje: Regarding differing carb sensitivity in cats, are you saying if she is not "carb sensitive", then a LC full meal (1/2 can) will not show a rise in BG numbers over the course of an hour, or so? I must say, something like Gracie diving from 300 to 50 in two hours, due to missing a "mini-meal", after already consuming a meal at shot time, is not something I can deal with, or worry about....especially on a constant basis. I have 11 other "patients" here, who all require special attention (not including myself; who receives zero care). I think I saw mention somewhere that Gracie (I think it was Gracie) receives 8 mini-meals per day, plus snacks? I was informed that Lantus is a gentler choice, however, if it requires this kind of micro-managing, I may have made a bad decision on the insulin change. I'm spread way too thin here as it is. Is this a bad insulin choice in my situation? Does it take time to find out if it's a bad choice, or do you ladies already know what I'm in for? Any thoughts?

Thanks so much. Sorry if I'm taxing the system.

Deb
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385 +5:256 PMPS:601 +2:594 +4:543 +6

I don't know your full story, but I think you should give Lantus a chance. Those yellows were really nice to see.
We want to see more yellows, please Marilyn :-D
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385 +5:256 PMPS:601 +2:594 +4:543 +6

you are NOT taxing the system...
that's what it's here for!!!!!!!!

but oh, Marilyn...please come down some!
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385 +5:256 PMPS:601 +2:594 +4:543 +6

Deb:

Remember ECID. Gracie is no longer on lantus because she liked to dive and bounce. Many of the kitties who do that are on a feeding schedule to slow that down. But you have to find what works best for Marilyn on the feeding.
Yes, on lantus, Gracie ate at PS, +1, +2, +3 with a snack. Now on lev, she eats at PS, +2, snack, +4, +5 because it works best for her. Some people free feed...some use timers. Marilyn may not ever do what Gracie did and you won't know
until she starts seeing some lower numbers. But, typically, food management is involved somehow.

Food is used to control the low numbers. If you have a cat that is carb sensitive and you feed her too high of carbs, her numbers will be higher. But if that is all she eats, then you increase the insulin. This is what Jill taught me:

manage the curve with food ----> flatten the curve ---> adjust the dose accordingly

Lantus is a much better insulin than Humulin and the chances of a hypo are much less. They are not non-existent but are less. You have to give it a chance...it is a great insulin and many cats do very, very well.

IMHO, you should PM Sandy and Black Kitty or Libby and Lucy and ask about some help with "R". Marilyn's numbers are a little too high for my comfort and you are following the protocol. The "R" when administered correctly and under the supervision of one of these very experienced ladies, can work with the lantus to bring Marilyn's numbers down.
 
Re: 12/01 Marilyn: AMPS:385 +5:256 PMPS:601 +2:594 +4:543 +6

Thanks everyone. You're all so nice! Also, thanks Marje for all of your experience with food. I need rest, so I can think this through. I don't understand the Lantus well enough to start shooting R along with it. I already can't find a good time to sleep.
 
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