11/9 & 11/10 Big Hen

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Angela&Henry

Angela&Henry

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11/9
AMPS 472 @ +10 3.3U
+4 324
+6 248
PMPS @ +14.5 225 (dropped from +6, rechecked at +14.5 240) 3.4

daily food:
can of FF liver & chicken feast at AMPS
1/2 can turkey & giblets feast +1.5
1/2 can liver & chicken feast +4 after BG check
1/2 can liver & chicken feast +6 after BG check
1/2 can turkey & giblets feast +10
1/2 can cod, sole & shrimp feast +12
1/2 can cod, sole & shrimp feast +1
1/2 can turkey & giblets + 3.5
1/2 can turkey & giblets +4.5 all FF flavors

11/10
AMPS 479 @+10 3.3U
+4 288
+6 256

food:
whole can FF liver & chicken feast @ AMPS grazed for awhile
1/2 can ocean whitefish & tuna FF @ +4 after BG check
1/2 can ocean whitefish & tuna FF +6 after BG check
1/2 can FF fish & shrimp feast +10
 
How big is Henry? Any chance that he is eating more than he needs and that is keeping his numbers higher? (Nothing personal, Henry. No, your picture does not make you look fat.)

My Maine Coon, Oliver, was 13 pounds at his ideal weight and he got 2.5 cans of Fancy Feast a day. Here is Dr. Lisa's formula:

In this case, figure out what you think your cat *should* weigh and plug that number into this formula:

Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

Using an optimal body weight of 12 pounds as an example, we come up with 233 calories/day as a starting point.

[13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233

This formula provides a very generous starting point (usually far too generous) so be aware that some (most) cats will not lose weight when eating the number of calories generated by this formula. I would suggest feeding according to this formula for 2 weeks and then re-evaluating the caloric needs based on the cat's weight loss, or lack thereof. Of course, if during that period of time your cat is losing weight too rapidly, you will need to increase his calorie intake immediately.

If he is maintaining his weight on the number of calories provided by the above formula, reduce the amount by 20%.

Just a thought......
 
I was thinking on the same track as Sue. I thought Kitty ate a lot, but it looks like Big Hen is eating 5 cans of FF a day. Kitty eats three and would eat five if I gave it to her. But, I can tell a big difference in her following preshot based on how much she eats the previous cycle. With that being said, if Big Hen is going to eat that much, maybe he does need more insulin to offset the food.

I don't know.....it just strikes me as a lot of food!!!! Sorry Hen!
 
Henry was in 17.5-18 lb. range for years.
He had shot up to 19-20 lbs. before diagnosis of FD.
When diagnosed, he was down to 14-14.5 lbs.
At 14 lbs I could feel his spine and his shoulders seemed bony. He lost weight rapidly, from 19.5 lbs to 14 in about 3 weeks so I think his FD was caught early. He had blood work 9-10 months prior that checked his BG level and he was normal then.
He went up from 14-14.5 to 15 lbs. after he started insulin and vet thought that was good, but we don't want him to go back up like he was . Last check about a month ago he was 15.6.
So that is a good point. I feed him 1/2 can FF at a time except at AMPS when he seems really hungry. He usually eats 1/2 of initial can in the morning then finishes it slowly. The rest of day and in evening, sometimes he eats all right away but a he usually eats 1/4 then comes back and sometimes civvie brother, Monkey, eats a little of it.
So using that formula, I would add to it to whatever think his ideal weight should be? Vet seems to think about 15lbs ins right for him or maybe 14.75 lbs.
I have noticed it seems when he doesn't eat overnight between 2-4 am his blood sugar goes up even more at BG check at AMPS.
He has a large frame, big paws. long body, Maine Coon type.
Are the calorie counts for the food on Janet & Binky's list?
 
His consumption varies.
Today hes had 2 1/2 cans so far.
And its the 3 oz. FF cans not 6 oz. larger cans like Friskies or 9-Lives. (just sayin' lol :lol: )
Hes always been a big eater.

I will try this and see how it goes and also ask vet again what she thinks a good weight for Hen would be. She thought around 15 before but we may revise that.
Thanks for the input, Sue and Kim.

Another question: If you notice he eats the majority of the food during the day and early evening. But as we all know his PMPS's are always lower than AMPS's and most always, significantly so. Overnight after 12:00 am he gets usually 1 can in 1/2 can amounts mid pre dawn hours. So how would the food factor in? Just thinking he would be higher than he is for PMPS. Sometimes the PMPS is lowest number of the day.
 
I do think the calories are on J & B's chart.

I wonder if you could substitute something like boiled chicken or even tuna (I know, you don't want to feed a lot)...into one or two of the feedings, so he could eat but have zero carbs and see if it made a difference. I am grasping for straws, but if the carbs are the culprit, you might could keep his feedings the same, but reduce the carbs and see if it would help. Maybe worth a trial?! We trial everything!!!
 
Okay, I am really going to reveal my ignorance here! My Mom always said it is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!! :lol: But, I never listened much, so here goes.........

Do you think that Big Hen's pancreas is producing some insulin....but, just not enough? Could it be that the food during the day is stimulating insulin production from the pancreas. Then at night, there is no food...thus, no stimulation for insulin production, so the PZI is on it's own. Could it be that the PZI is actually almost supplemental to Hen's "real" insulin.

The am cycle that he is eating the most is going 14 hours and producing the low pm preshot.

Okay....how far fetched is that?! :lol:

Be Nice!!!!
 
Kim, I often think the same thing.
You know the test Lori told us about where you test before PMPS by about an hour or hour and a half then feed just a snack and see if they drop in about an hour? We tried that several times and he was lower or tried testing him at +1 after food and he was lower.
No I don't think its far fetched. A few times when he missed his mid pre dawn food he was even higher.
There has to be a reason for the dramatically higher AMPS and much lower PMPS and the days hes too low to shoot at PMPS with long duration.
 
Well, all of this being considered.....if he is not overweight and the vet thinks he can even gain a little weight, then maybe leave him some food out overnight and see if he will eat during the night. It sure appears that maybe his Pancreas is helping some....just not enough to substain him. Have you ever left food out overnight for him? Or, maybe take the additional three cans that you are feeding outside of his preshot feedings and break them down further to create an additional night feeding. Then you wouldn't increase the calories, but maybe the food would be more consistent.
 
He has an auto feeder. Usually someone gets up around 3:30 AM and he has a 1/2 can then. I could divide the food up further and put in different compartments of auto feeder.
 
I would try it! At the least, if it doesn't help you can discard that scenario.

Good Luck!
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
<snip>

In this case, figure out what you think your cat *should* weigh and plug that number into this formula:

Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

Using an optimal body weight of 12 pounds as an example, we come up with 233 calories/day as a starting point.

[13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233

<snip>
Click to expand...

Using this formula, Henry is being fed enough found to maintain almost 30 lbs. :o

Cod, Sole & Shrimp Feast: 84.2 cals per can * 1can = 84.2 calories
Turkey & Giblets Feast: 97cals per can * 2 cans = 194.0 calories
Tender Liver & Chicken Feast: 89.3cals per can * 2 cans = 178.6 calories

84.2 + 194 + 178.6 = 456.8 total calories

456.8 - 70 calorie allowance = 386.8 claories / 13.6 per ideal weight - 28.4 pounds ideal weight


Ooops - changed 12.6 to 13.6 so that makes it less than 30 lbs. :oops:


The carb content in all that food is surely influencing his BG levels, don't you think?
 
Thanks for posting the calorie content of what hes eating.
Oh my!
Looks like he only needs 2 1/2 to 3 cans a day.
He will drive me insane on 2 cans a day. Maybe I can cook some chicken breasts and let him have a little of that along with reducing his FF intake.
 
Damn, I wish I hadn't missed this thread!
Angela, yes the cals are all on the chart
Most FF are in the 70-100 range per can. When I was contolling Bob's intake I wrote the cal # on each can and stacked them to total about 280 per day.
The carbs for just about all the classics run from 2%-4%, so I don't think you'll see much variance in his numbers due to flavors.
The simple formula I used was 20 cal per pound per day. Bob stays around 14 lbs., so 280. That would put Henry around the same range - 280-300 cal per day. Roughly three cans of FF a day, unless he just burns more cal per day fir some reason.

Carl
 
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