11/7 Johnny AMPS 307 PMPS 300 ~ Dosing help needed

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Janice & Johnny

Member Since 2010
Hi all! Long-timer coming back with her tail between her legs to ask for advice...(please don't kill me, I already feel guilty!)

Johnny's numbers are all out of whack. Let me explain why. Towards the end of September, we could tell the insulin was losing its oomph. We called the vet to request a refill. She hadn't seen Johnny in a while and asked us to do a curve at home and send her the numbers so she could see how he was doing before calling it in. I reminded her that we chart and sent her the link. She called the next morning and said that she believed that he was showing signs of samoygi effect and that she wanted to see how he would do without insulin. She advised us to stop insulin for a week and not test him (so that his numbers could regulate without us reading too much into them). We were excited at this prospect and I wish I'd discussed it here before we took this step.

It was determined that he did need the insulin, so she called in the refill on 10/3. She wanted us to try once-a-day dosing (said that Lantus was initially developed to work that way for humans) because she didn't like the low numbers he hits in the evening time. She felt the 40s and 50s he was hitting were not safe and also potentially causing bounces. We started at 0.1u once a day and did that for five days before we decided (without the vet) that he needed twice-a-day and we took the reigns back from there.

The vet wrote today and said the following: "Just wanted to check in. I checked Johnny's spreadsheet- It looks like he is now on 0.25 units twice daily [note from Janice: The chart was not updated then, but is now]. I am wondering if he is once again dropping too low at night. Is he drinking and urinating a lot or is that under control on this dosing? Based on his numbers we might try him on just morning insulin at this higher dose. We may have to increase the dose, but I would do that before going to twice daily dosing. I am interested to hear your thoughts on this."

Johnny has been acting normally. All Ps are in place. Fall is usually his time to start sleeping in forts and he has been requesting them everywhere. :) His chart is updated. We've been increasing him, but he just doesn't seem to be responding to the insulin like he normally would. This makes me really nervous and we feel SO awful for throwing him so far off track. Dosing advice greatly appreciated. Note: We aren't around M-F during the day to test.

Sorry so long!
 
Yo, Janice....
get that tail out and wagging!!!!

there is no place for blame or shame when you're trying to help a loved one!!
you were trying to do something beneficial for Johnny...

come back & look embarrassed when you pull a Celi & wind up bumping a kitty Off-Off-the-Juice. :-D

Now that I've hollered at you...sounds like Johnny's feeling well...
How are you guys??

Hugs from me, and a big ol' sloppy kiss from the Binkster

Celi

ETA- can you tell I've missed you & JC ? :lol:
 
sorry, but a VET that doesn't understand that CATS are not HUMANS and data for HUMANS cannot just be extrapolated to CATS?!?
cat(2)_steam
 
Celi, you are a HOOT! I've missed you. Please thank Binks for that sloppy kiss. Sorry he's back on the juice and lol at "off-off-the-juice." You're in good company. I hope it's a short visit.

MJ, I know! I remember we either tried it (with recommendations from the dosers here) or thought about it as a possibility back when Johnny was getting a drop and still going too low at night. But, he's certainly not going low NOW. He's not going anywhere!
 
Celi, I totally missed the boat about what you were saying....CONGRATS on day 4 of no insulin for binks! Change that "short visit" to PERMANENT MOVE to the Falls! Woot!
 
I was wondering where you'd gotten to!!

My guess is that you are just going to need to work the protocol and keep increasing until you are able to bring Johnny's numbers back down.

FWIW, your vet needs to actually read the research on Somogyi. The original research was done in 1938. The study, which was done on humans, has never been replicated. At best, the phenomenon is controversial. At worst, it doesn't exist. As far as Somogyi with Lantus, there is absolutely no research. Somogyi with Lantus in cats -- zero research.
 
Janice & Johnny said:
Celi, I totally missed the boat about what you were saying....CONGRATS on day 4 of no insulin for binks! Change that "short visit" to PERMANENT MOVE to the Falls! Woot!

no, you were right the first time...

he came back from the falls due to being fed HC canned & kibble cuz i didn't get the message across to the person I chose as caregiver
while doing a little traveling... :oops:
 
Oh Celi, I'm so sorry! Binks must have been in heaven. But no momma guilt, okay? We're all doing our best for our babies. Wow, I more than missed the boat...I missed the dock. Sorry 'bout that. :oops:
 
Thanks, Sienne. We will be following the protocol and possibly contacting the vet you recommended, depending on how our vet reacts to this. I don't think it's going to go well. I just don't know how to "prove" that he's not dropping low at night, except to point to his history. It seems like common sense to me. Anyways, I'm nervous about going up to 0.75u now because it will be the first time he's had more than 0.50u since the first couple of weeks after his dx 1.5 years ago. But, it's where we are and I'm glad he's doing well regardless, so we will carry on and upward!
 
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