11/5 callie tid

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calliecat an marty

calliecat an marty

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hello everyone !!


update ! last time I was on I was waiting for results on callies urine sample, when I brought it to the vet it came back she still had infection so they said they were going to send it in... they did and results came back callies infection is cleared up so thats good cat_pet_icon

11/4 1.9 units

amps = 481 ( totaly sucks )
+ 5 = 329
pmps = 312
+ 3 = 277


11/5 started tid 1 unit 3x day

amps =472
+ 4 =375
mdps =368
+ 4 278
pmps = 349

I will get a tid ss up soon !!

thanks for any feed back
callie and marty !
 
Hi Marty,

It will probably take him a few days to adjust to the different schedule, since he's going to have insulin in his system more consistently on TID. For the first day especially, those numbers don't look bad. I know Kim has said that with Kitty, she sees flatter curves, but overall lower numbers. That's a good thing to see.

Carl
 
Marty,
I never tried TID, but from reading about the several other PZI kitties and how they have been doing on TID, there's a couple things I've picked up on that you should look out for.

1 - you have to make sure that you try to test at +7 and +8 if possible. That's because you need to make sure Callie's numbers are going up before you give a shot. If you shoot into a falling number, Callie will drop faster and lower.

2 - One thing you might see is what they call "overlap", where there's still a little insulin from the previous shot in the system and the next shot sort of joins in with what's left. The effect is to make the dose act like an "increase". One of the signs of overlap is what I said in #1 above - her BG will be falling instead of rising at shot time.

If she is falling, you have to wait, hold off on feeding, and check a half hour later to see if it has started to go up. If so, feed and shoot. If not, you have to consider an smaller dose.

Best thing to do if you are not sure is to post early enough so that people can respond before shot time. If nobody is in PZI, post in Health. You'll get used to the routine just like you did with BID, but at first, you'll probably have lots of questions. Of course, ASK if you have them!

Carl
 
thank you Carl

I did talk to kim on the phone tonight about tid and my other cat tesse ! she told me the same thing you did and to keep posting on here with her numbers for advise which I will , I realllllyyyyyy thanks you guys from the bottom of my heart I don't know what I would do with out you guys cat_pet_icon

callie has been a real good girl through all this I just want to squeeze the pieces out of her ! one thing about this sugar dance is I've become even more protective over my babies and I've never felt closer to them cat_pet_icon :YMHUG:
 
Hi Marty, isn't it amazing how much closer we get to our furries once we start this dance.

About the tid, your bid dose was 1.9u but you have gone to 1u tid which is a huge increase and concerns me, I would hate to see you have a problem with it.

I'll be the descenting voice here, I think you should stick with twice a day dosing for now for several reasons. Your busy schedule, Kim's busy schedule and lastly there are more people who can help with twice a day dosing then there are for three times a day dosing.

Anyone else want to chime in?
 
Yes. I was ready to post the same thing, Robin. Marty, I don't think you gave BID enough time. Kim switched after months of working with ProZinc and figuring how it worked for Kitty.

TID is complicated and can cause fast unexpected changes. It requires a lot of testing and knowledge of how ProZinc tends to work in your Kitty. There are few people here with actual experience with TID to advise you if you have questions.

The last entry on your ss shows a reasonable response to BID but that is a week old.

I would much rather see you go back to BID for a while, get a lot of tests in mid cycle and raise the dose by a little - maybe to a fat 2 twice daily.
 
Hi Marty, did you get a amps test this morning?

Please post your test so we can see what is going on.

Maybe Robin and Sue are right and you should increase Callie's bid dose and see what happens before going to tid. They both have A LOT of experience with bid and if they feel that you gave up to soon on bid, then maybe that is the route you should take--go back to bid and increase the dose. What do you think?

Please let us know how Callie is this morning.

Kim
 
good morning eveyone !

callies shot this morning was an hour late , I shot 1 unit


11/6 early this morning her + 4 = 322

amps = 409
+ 4 = 295






I am so confused at what to do ??? when I shoot bid callies ps are so high and they have been like that for a long time so far no ketones I don't know what I would do if she got DKA I don't have the money to take care of the cost for that, I check her every day , she is clear of all infection , and all her other blood works it good I'm just so scared that its going to start affecting her organs if I don't get her numbers down :`( I will get her bid ss up to date now , I do value all of your imput on this and with all your help will decide what to do , I could lower the tid dose , I check her every 4 hours no matter what I could check more.


thank you all so very much!
callie and marty cat_pet_icon
 
I appreciate your concern over DKA, but MOST kitties that go into full blown DKA go into it because their mom's aren't testing for ketones. If you are testing for ketones on a regular basis...and from you SS it appears you test daily, then you would most likely catch any ketone activity early. Ketones are the result of too little insulin normally and they are really put into motion when things like infection come along. Some kitties are not prone to ketones, while others are....my Kitty went into DKA, but it was due to not enough insulin. I did catch it early and she survived, thankfully. If you catch ketone activity early, then the treatment is mainly increased insulin and fluids. It is only when the ketones progress that the expensive DKA treatment develops.

But, you are right to always have your eyes on ketones! Good for you!

Post your test today...and let's see what is going on. Hopefully, since it is a weekend some people will be around to chime in....let's see as a group if we can figue out how to get Callie in better numbers.

How is Tesse?
 
We walk a fine line, Marty, between supportive and nervous. I am a cautious advice giver as I think Robin is. My theory is always better safe than sorry.

Why don't you start with updating the spreadsheet so we can see exactly what you are looking at? And then maybe we can give better advice.
 
I won't argue with sue or robin on the BID VS TID aspect. Both are a lot more experienced than I am. But, dose wise.... you were shooting 1.9 BID, right? That is 3.8u per day. 1u TID is only 3u per day... so it's actually less insulin per day, isn't.it?
 
Yes Carl, you are right about the 1.9 bid vs 1 unit tid...but, it appears the 1.9 has just started recently.
 
Oops
Too many kitties and numbers! I just remembered she's been shooting a scale. Sometimes less than 1.5, which would be the point where the daily dose would be "equal"

Carl
 
I updated her bid ss , and Kim, Tesse ate about a big table spoon of food this morning and so far kept it down cat_pet_icon thank you so much for asking :YMHUG:


this is callies tid numbers

11/5 1 unit

amps = 472
+ 4 = 375
mdps = 368 shot 1 unit
+ 4 = 278
pmps = 349 shot 1 unit
+ 4 = 322

11/6 1 unit
amps = 409
+ 4 = 295



I have to check her in an hour I will post her numbers I hope eveyone is having a great Sunday !
 
Marty,

I have to go out for several hours but will look at your spreadsheet when I get back.. (thanks for the update!)

Meanwhile, how about just getting a lot of numbers today? That may help us figure out the puzzle that is Callie.
 
I agree that you have high preshot numbers. But you generally have high numbers overall. Which can mean too much or too little insulin, unfortunately. I guess I am going with too little, mainly because you are concerned about ketones and you did start low and go slow.

It would seem, if you increase the dose, you should get lower numbers overall. ( I know....it doesn't always work that way...) When I think about TID, I am thinking a kitty that rises fast and is back high by +6. High enough for another dose of insulin at +8. I don't think Callie has that pattern. She isn't low at nadir, but she has lots of yellow nadirs. And although they make a high curve, they do make a curve.

TID is hard. And it is so easy to get mixed up. For instance on 11/5 you had 375 at +4. Your next number was 368 and you shot one unit. She has going down (or staying flat if you want to consider meter variance.) That could really have come back to bite you. It didn't, but those kinds of problems are compounded with TID.

Let's see what others say. But my vote is to up the dose to 2 units twice daily (fat if you want to try that) and see what your numbers are. Test as often as you can.
 
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