11/29 Crushy amps 253 +2 318 +3 330 +6 336

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Michele M

Michele M

Member Since 2013
previous http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=109050&p=1152748#p1152748

Well we had an interesting night.

Yesterday I used R at PS and got yellow numbers in the middle of a bounce where he would normally be in reds or stinky pinkies. That was SO encouraging! then last night at +2 he shot back up to 360 @-) I didnt know if it was a new bounce from the yellows yesterday (he has bounced from yellows before) or if he was just resuming his position from the bounce he started 11/27 pm. His bounces *usually* last 3 cycles so I figured if it was a new bounce, he'd be in high #s all night, AND if he was resuming his bounce from 11/27 he'd be in high #s all night too. So after much internal debate I shot 0.1 unit of R at lantus +2 last night. or at least I THOUGHT I did!! nothing happened! he stayed in the 370s for R+1 R+2 and R+3. Thats when I gave up and went to sleep. Terumo syringes are SOOOO sensitive I think the drop must have come out as I was sitting there holding it and mentally debating whether to shoot R or not. ohmygod_smile or it was a fur shot or something.

he was 342 at lantus +8 (R+6) last night, but this morning it looks like he is coming down!

So I guess that answers my question! He resumed his position last night in the bounce that started on 11/27 and it is now breaking on schedule (that or I am thoroughly over thinking this)

If a cat does bounce from R can you have two bounces going on at the same time? say if his rise at +2 last night was a bounce from the yellows yesterday, would the bounce from 11/27 still be going on? and would you have to watch for two bounce breaks? Or does one bounce just sort of take over?

Im guessing the answer to these questions is ECID and know thy cat

I feel like I learned a lot last night though....so thats good
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

Great job with the R. :thumbup

What I've seen is that once the bolus runs it's course the underlying bounce may resume. But taking the edge off the high numbers has benefit. With a food spike or perhaps other spikes, sometimes the numbers may remain lower after the bolus brings them down.

Of course if you overdo the bolus you may cause another bounce. That's why you don't want to drop much more than 50-100 points with R.

Easy to *lose* your tiny dose of bolus but better to "do no harm" than to shoot too much.

What you never want to do is add 50-100 points of momentum to a bounce already clearing. If something like that does happen you must be ready to intervene with carbs and of course continue monitoring closely.
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

Hi. was watching for you.

I am not your authority on R so will leave those questions for those that R :lol:

But did glance quickly at a couple of the threads Libby left for you the other night when she was advising others on getting started. a couple of things in this comment may apply/help. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=41609#p443982
(discusses the goal not being as much to bring the #'s down to a lower range as much as keeping it from bouncing as high)
- Also notes safe to try for first 2-3 cycles of bounce then to Back Off)


I could feel your excitement last night when he dropped...your moods still have colors akin to his numbers- you were feeling yellow- almost felt green.
I think his numbers may affect how you feel more than him.

if the drop was due to the R, then suspect it feels more in control- like you can DO something about the numbers.
It may be that it will still be a series of trial and error..once you figure out how he responds to this tool. Maybe it was a fur shot, maybe not.
Maybe you play with the timing of the R in concert with the Lantus..but also still experiment with the food % and timing.

Just think its a process and not something you will work out in any one or two cycles. Crushy is sometimes not easy. And I think he isn't giving you the control you want..because he keeps doing it his way. But you know him so well and now just have more tricks to pull from...even if they don't have the same result each and every time.
You did learn (stealth) and it may be there isn't THE magic pill but it is all good info. We also need to get you a magic pill so you are in better colors even if he may not be. You said he is purry when Hi, maybe he can teach you. ;-)
I know it's hard cause you love him and just want him better. We do too. So hopefully essence of green soon for everyone. :mrgreen: ..and at least purry in the meantime.


Will be anxious to see what the other feedback is on your (brave solo) venture into R territory
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

The easy answer is that yes, the R can cause a bounce. That's why you want to start at a tiny dose, curve, keep good records, and then use that information to guide your decisions. My best thought is that is you are unsure whether a bounce off of either Lantus or R is clearing, don't use R. The breaking bounce can have a good deal of momentum and you don't want to add to the momentum either by using R or by increasing the Lantus dose.

Im guessing the answer to these questions is ECID and know thy cat
Click to expand...
That observation is very, very important!
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

bettyandhank said:
(she discusses the goal not being as much to bring the #'s down to a lower range as much as keeping it from bouncing as high)
Click to expand...
That's an important point. It's not so much about bringing the numbers down as "taking the edge off" and keeping the numbers from going higher. Going for too much with a bolus will likely make the bouncing worse.

That's why you want to start slow and test much.
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

thanks Dale, Betty and Sienne

Im well aware that the goal of bolus is just to take the edge off of a bounce and that it can cause a bounce itself if #s go too low

my question was

If the cat is on a bounce from low #s, and you give bolus that causes a bounce, can you have two bounces going on at the same time? and thus two potential clearings pending?

(and seriously Betty, that was not a "brave solo venture" into using R. Its not like I havent been reading about this for the last week or so)
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

Both types of "panicky liver" bounces would *likely* add up to one longer bounce. But you still might get the Lantus nadiring at a different point than the bounce(s) clearing.

Until you get lots of data, it's best to go slow, be ready for anything, and test more frequently.
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

sorry Michele if that hit wrong...I must be projecting. I'd be scared __-less and want someone holding my hand. But I'm like that. I'm a worrier and chicken.
You must just be more ballsy overall.
I got nervous trying to even shoot Hank at times..you have had to learn way more tricks that us. Hank was overall pretty easy. You have a more complex cat.

(have you ever sky dived?)


....now my tails between my legs.
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 questions about using R

sorry Betty Im just a little grumpy today I think. no sleep, pms, AND I had to deal with family yesterday (bit of a perfect storm)

It IS scary, but my MO is to gather all the data I can to get a good idea of what Im getting into, and then just jump. I had to jump in because the more I thought about it the more nervous I got.

I havent sky dived but Ive always wanted to. ;-)

and thank you Dale, that makes sense about the bounces combining

Arg his +2 and +3 are higher than PS....I still think the bounce from 11/27 may break soon so Ill hold off on the R for now
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 +2 318 +3 330

YAY!!! You did great!!!

I would hold off on the R because this could be a high before a break so you are smart to think about that. Well done, you!!!

What I observed with Gracie....and ECID....the first few times I gave R, she'd go right back up. But then she started not doing that. She'd just keep coming slowly down and get into great numbers. Then I wasn't able to use it again for a long time because she wasn't bouncing or she was clearing them fast. Gracie's diabetes is definitely seasonal and the fall is her worse time so I started using the R again to stop those high numbers from increasing. We're still at the point where it continues to bring her down most of the time, but occasionally, she goes back up. There are probably other variables involved, too.

Good job!
 
Re: 11/29 Crushy amps 253 +2 318 +3 330

thats really interesting Marje, thanks! This cycle already looks a little different. A yellow PS then a slight shift into low pinks isnt usual for him.

Ive noticed for years that all my cats get hungrier in the fall when the weather starts to get cooler. (Ive also heard its harder for humans to loose weight in the fall) It has something to do with a biological survival thing to put on weight to last through the winter. Like we need to do that anymore! That might be one of the myriad of variables at play with Gracie (and maybe Crushy) this time of year.
 
i found with punkin that using R at the right time would hold him flat, preventing a bounce from going higher, and therefore preventing a big drop that led to another bounce. then the subsequent couple of cycles would really show the effect of the R by lowering the entire range.

in answer to your question about a double bounce, with 2 clearings - i understand what you're speculating about, but i don't think so. at least i didn't see any evidence of that in my own experience.
 
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