11/27 Michelangelo AMPS 339, +3/331, +6/325

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KPassa

KPassa

Member Since 2012
Previous Condo.

He never broke under 300 last night. :sad: I'm optimistic that it's because he was bouncing from lower numbers during the day while I was at work and unable to test. Which means I'm also optimistically hoping that his bouncing is starting to follow a discernible pattern. For example, it seems lately that whenever he hits blues and greens, his next 12-hour period will remain in the yellows and pinks. The 23rd is the one day where he was high across both day and night, so maybe it's just me trying to find patterns in random chance.

I FINALLY found someone else on this planet (on facebook) that also has a cat that had diabetes since birth (no underlying causes or infections) and she had a specialist in Australia who assisted her. They decided to start the kitten on caninsulin for the first year or so because it was easier to manage while the kitten was was still growing. Then, once the kitten had finished growing, they moved her over to Lantus. I'm not sure how caninsulin works and I've also been told it's no longer sold in the US so I can't even begin to speculate on why that's a better choice initially for a growing kitten than Lantus. Plus, we have the added complication that Mikey's part Maine Coon, so his growing won't be done for up to three years!

Hypothetically, is there something comparable to the way caninsulin works that we might be able to try with Lantus? I've read about people using a "sliding scale" with Lantus, but I have no idea what that means either.... Don't worry; I'm not planning on changing anything. The girl from facebook gave me her vet's contact information so I'll be reaching out to them in the next day or so, but I am curious as to how this all works so I'll understand what might be going on with Mikey a bit better and be able to understand why they chose to treat with caninsulin initially.
 
Re: 11/27 Michelangelo AMPS 339, +3/331

Interesting, do you know how long ago this treatment was used? Caninsulin (Vetsulin in the US) has had some major manufacturing problems and was under a USDA warning against using when we started in 2010.

It is a short acting insulin which doesn't work as well in cats because of their high rate of metabolism. If you can afford it you might want to consult a feline internal medicine specialist. Is the problem high numbers during growth spurts? There is a bolus insulin that can be given to bring high numbers down in certain situations. I've never tried it, but there are those here who use it. I'd check w/ Sienne.
 
So, today's high numbers are showing me so far that I'm trying to see patterns that don't exist. That's what I get for attempting to mathematically formulate some sort of cycle he might be following. :lol:

Ann & Tess said:
Interesting, do you know how long ago this treatment was used? Caninsulin (Vetsulin in the US) has had some major manufacturing problems and was under a USDA warning against using when we started in 2010.

It is a short acting insulin which doesn't work as well in cats because of their high rate of metabolism. If you can afford it you might want to consult a feline internal medicine specialist. Is the problem high numbers during growth spurts? There is a bolus insulin that can be given to bring high numbers down in certain situations. I've never tried it, but there are those here who use it. I'd check w/ Sienne.
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She said her cat is about two years old now and is expected to be on insulin for the rest of her life, so at least I now have a possible answer to one of the questions I've been wondering: are "born diabetics" like Mikey even capable of going OTJ?

I have a feeling he might be going through another growth spurt soon because his numbers aren't significantly dropping again and he's been overly hungry today. I've already had to feed him 4 times and we've already reached his daily PMPS caloric intake level, which isn't even for another 6 hours! I'm still holding out hope that we'll see some blues and greens again tonight.

One completely non-FD, OT question: My previous two kittens weren't biters/chewers, however Michelangelo LOVES putting everything (including me!) into his mouth to bite and/or chew on. Does anyone know of a cat chew toy or some "cat whispering" technique to appease his oral fixation?
 
I hate to break it to you but Maine Coons don't reach their full growth for 5 years (not 3). Gizmo is also a big size cat (Norwegian Forest Cat) although a little smaller than a Maine Coon. They are kittens for 5 years!

One thing to keep in mind is that bounces can last for up to 72 hours. It looks to me like Mikey is still bouncing off of the blues and greens from 11/25. Mikey has spent a while in numbers that are not in the normal BG range. It's going to take a while for his system to readjust to normal numbers without panicking and causing a bounce.

When people refer to a "sliding scale," what they mean is that the dose is based on the pre-shot numbers. This isn't a good strategy with Lantus because it is a depot type insulin. If you were to adjust the dose every cycle, you'd see seriously wonky numbers and lose any benefit of using a long acting insulin. I wouldn't recommend a bolus insulin at this point. We still don't know what Mikey's patterns are and how quickly he will clear a bounce.

What it sounds like you've found out about is Type 1 vs. Type 2 diabetes. The majority of cats (and humans) have Type 2 diabetes. There's no way to test to find out which form of FD Mikey has. (Type 1 used to be referred to as "juvenile" diabetes.)
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
I hate to break it to you but Maine Coons don't reach their full growth for 5 years (not 3). Gizmo is also a big size cat (Norwegian Forest Cat) although a little smaller than a Maine Coon. They are kittens for 5 years!
Click to expand...

Oh, crap. ohmygod_smile
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
One thing to keep in mind is that bounces can last for up to 72 hours. It looks to me like Mikey is still bouncing off of the blues and greens from 11/25. Mikey has spent a while in numbers that are not in the normal BG range. It's going to take a while for his system to readjust to normal numbers without panicking and causing a bounce.

When people refer to a "sliding scale," what they mean is that the dose is based on the pre-shot numbers. This isn't a good strategy with Lantus because it is a depot type insulin. If you were to adjust the dose every cycle, you'd see seriously wonky numbers and lose any benefit of using a long acting insulin. I wouldn't recommend a bolus insulin at this point. We still don't know what Mikey's patterns are and how quickly he will clear a bounce.
Click to expand...

Ugh! This bouncing is what is driving me insane! I'll finally see some good numbers and then, BAM! Back to being chronically over 200 again. I know it's not helping that hes a growing boy and I'm absolutely certain that a lot of my issues with his bouncing numbers are due to his inconsistent caloric consumption due to growth spurts and the like. I basically free-feed him although I limit him to around 300 calories a day (6 pound kitten x13.6+70, times two for kitten) and he usually ends up consuming around 250-275 calories. Today, however, he'd already hit 200 calories by noon, which makes me think he's got another growth spurt coming on.

Sienne and Gabby said:
What it sounds like you've found out about is Type 1 vs. Type 2 diabetes. The majority of cats (and humans) have Type 2 diabetes. There's no way to test to find out which form of FD Mikey has. (Type 1 used to be referred to as "juvenile" diabetes.)
Click to expand...

Yep, my vet had originally diagnosed him as Type 1/juvenile who was probably diabetic since birth, but then I read how the only way to find out for sure is through genetic testing, so I took what he said with a grain of salt. But, the more I've researched about diabetic kittens, the more I've found that almost all of them (except for the one I just discovered on facebook) had a prior condition that caused the diabetes and every single one of them went into remission after the underlying problem was treated and/or their diet was changed. Since Mikey has no other issues and the "prior condition" (minor UTI) turned out to be a symptom, I'm starting to agree with my vet that Mikey is a Type 1.
 
As long as he's eating LC food, numbers won't stay high for long due to food alone. The bounces are a normal response to either lower numbers than what a cat is used to or to a fast drop.
 
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