11/26 Old-timer Kitty-Possible IBD or...?

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Kathy and Kitty

Kathy and Kitty

Member Since 2009
Happy post-Thanksgiving, everyone!

Kitty just celebrated seven months OTJ! He also has been eating more, losing weight, and throwing up every 3 or 4 days. We've had two rounds of bloodwork in two months. Here's the link where I posted about that:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30246

The labs are linked in my signature.

The vet has just run an fPli (pancreatic lipase) for pancreatitis. Happily, the fPli came up normal, so the vet is leaning against pancreatitis as a diagnosis.

His main concern now is IBD, but he thinks we can try treating for worms/parasites first, and also switch his diet, in case this is a food allergy issue. The vet suggested the hypo-allergenic duck with green pea from Science Diet -- but he isn't as concerned about the diabetes as I am. (Kitty has been eating nothing but FF chicken, with ample Liv-A-Little chicken dust on top, for seven months. He used to eat FF beef, until they changed the formula. It made his numbers rise about 25 points, which is why we shifted to chicken just before he went OTJ.)

I think it's time for me to cross-post in Health, but I would love to hear any reactions our LL family might have. Thanks for your thoughts!
 
EVO makes a 95% Duck cat food. I tried it with my IBD kitty. He did not like it. We did the wormer route also twice. Keep us posted.
 
Thank you both!

I tried the Evo and also the Blue Wilderness brands, duck and other flavors. He threw up. At the time, I thought it was because of the higher fat content. In retrospect, maybe it was whatever he has now.

Barb, I have been trying to add supplements. He eats the food sprinkled with Cosequin, but everything else, he rejects.

Glad to hear you tried the deworming with no bad side-effects (I assume!).
 
Evo also makes a venison canned food, which my cats found relatively palatable. I believe (this is from memory, not from reviewing the J&B food list) that the Evo foods can be higher in fat, which some kitties find upsets their tummies (flares their pancreatitis). Venison should also be a novel protein, which could help with allergies (have your vet review the other ingredients too).

If it is IBD, you could try a course of Metronidazole (Flagyl). It's technically an antibiotic, but also has an anti-inflammatory effect on IBD kitties.

You could try the Pepcid AC if you are not already doing that. Is his hydration OK? He could be dehydrated from frequent vomiting.

Is scarf and barf an issue? You could try feeding smaller more frequent meals to lessen vomiting.

If you want to pursue diagnostics you have a choice to make between endoscopy (less invasive, gives less complete results) or full thickness biopsy (very invasive, gives more complete results). You could start off with an abdominal ultrasound, which could give you an indication if something is going on.

If IBD is present, steroids may be needed. The steroid Budesonide has less of an effect on BG's than Prednisolone does. If you think that you are at all interested in doing diagnostic testing, do not start steroids before doing that. It will invalidate the results. If the IBD (if that's what it is) is causing problems with QOL, then you may have to consider treating and dealing with the effect on BG's. I think you can try a few other things first, though.

I am concerned about the part where you say he is eating more, but still losing weight. I don't know why he would lose weight if consuming more calories. An IBD cat may have a reduced ability to absorb nutrients from the gut. The weight loss issue would be enough to make me want to pursue something along the lines of an abdominal ultrasound. You could try tracking the amount of calories consumed (less those lost through vomiting). I don't like weight loss if calore intake is adequate.
 
Linda -- Thank you so much for sharing all you learned with sweet Bear Man.

Kitty's QOL seems good now. He is throwing up once every three or four days only -- no scarf and barf, so he is eating well most of the time. We free-feed, BTW, and he just eats a little at a time. The vet did not feel Kitty is dehydrated.

I keep wanting to try simpler things to try first. I have not yet given Pepcid, and I will do that. I will also try some kind of different food, although I want to avoid higher fat foods. And we'll try the deworming/parasite treatment. He's an indoor kitty, but we could track something in from our lawn. There are rabbits and other critters out there.

After those things, I would try the meds. The vet said something about mertz? Is that Metronidazole? Maybe I misunderstood him.

As for diagnostics, we would next think about ultrasound.
 
The vet may have been referring to Mirtazapine, an appetite stimulant. That would help if his appetite is off. Not sure if it would help with vomiting.

You could look into feeding raw. I didn't do that, but many people have had success with treating IBD with raw diet. You could try feeding raw rabbit.

You could also ask the vet about vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) shots. (Not the same as methyl B12 used for neuropathy). IBD cats can be b12 deficient. You could just give the shot (with your vet's approval of course), or test serum B12 and folate first.
 
Linda, you're right -- he was referring to appetite stimulant. I agree, that doesn't seem to be the problem. I will ask about Metronidazole, also about the B12.

Raw is not practical, but I can find something else to feed him.

In my cross-post on Health, Jill and Remi suggested food allergy. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=30734&p=317428#p317428Kitty always has itchy ears. Maybe I could set him right with a switch to beef, or venison. That would be nice.
 
Kathy--Sending Major Healing Vines to sweet Kitty! Hope this will be resolved real real soon--HUGS to both of you!!--pLEASE GET WELL KITTY!!
 
I would highly recommend either Feline's Pride Raw or Nature's Variety Raw Rabbit. Just 2 weeks ago I switched Attie to the NV Raw and within 2 days his issues resolved themselves...after 9 months of assorted trials.

Also would suggest an abdominal x-ray or ultra sound to rule out any other issues.
 
Blue said:
I would highly recommend either Feline's Pride Raw or Nature's Variety Raw Rabbit. Just 2 weeks ago I switched Attie to the NV Raw and within 2 days his issues resolved themselves...after 9 months of assorted trials.

Also would suggest an abdominal x-ray or ultra sound to rule out any other issues.
Click to expand...

Sorry I haven't kept up -- did Atlas have similar issues? I'm so reluctant to try raw; I don't think we can keep it up safely. But two days to normal, that's a fantastic result! Hard to argue with success.

If we need to go to diagnostic procedures, I will definitely go ultrasound before more invasive things. I'm just hoping I can achieve something with diet.

Choy Foong, thank you too. I'll read Dr. Lisa's link. I wonder if a consult with her might be in Kitty's future.
 
The Nature's Variety Raw Instinct is frozen medallions. Simply thaw and serve. Hate to say it, but I find it even easier than opening a can and having to store the leftover in the fridge!
 
Hi Kathy, Sorry not to be of any help, but I can send some healing vines, so that's what I'm going to do. I hope all of the issues resolve themselves very soon.

(((((Kathy & Kitty)))))

Ella
 
From Dr. Lisa's link above:
Soy contains phytoestrogens and soy also negatively influences the thyroid gland. Given how common hyperthyroidism is in the cat, soy has no business being in cat food. Unfortunately, soy is a common ingredient used by pet food manufacturers because it enhances their profit margin.

When considering allergies, the ingredient list is useful since we don't care how much of the offending ingredient is in the food. The bottom line is that we don't want any of the ingredient to be present. (Fish, beef, lamb, corn, wheat, and soy tend to be the most hyperallergenic ingredients for the cat.)
Click to expand...

Amazing. There is soy in Dasuquin, which Kitty refused, even though he accepts the Cosequin. And beef AND fish on the hyperallegenic ingredients! Venison is sounding better. I wish duck weren't so high in fat.

The Nature's Variety Raw Instinct is frozen medallions. Simply thaw and serve. Hate to say it, but I find it even easier than opening a can and having to store the leftover in the fridge!
Click to expand...

I did NOT know that! I thought it involved cooking skills -- and no living creature should be subjected to my cooking skills! :lol:
 
Hi kathy,
Sorry to hear about kitty.
Linda covered everything so well, as usual.
Natural balance has a venison/green pea, and duck/green pea. All grain free.
I have some random cans of grain free, novel protein if you would like me to send them and see if kitty likes them (instinct, evo, natural balance, etc). No idea of carb count unfortunately.

Let me know.
 
carolynandlatte said:
Hi kathy,
Sorry to hear about kitty.
Linda covered everything so well, as usual.
Natural balance has a venison/green pea, and duck/green pea. All grain free.
I have some random cans of grain free, novel protein if you would like me to send them and see if kitty likes them (instinct, evo, natural balance, etc). No idea of carb count unfortunately.

Let me know.
Click to expand...

You are a sweetheart, Carolyn, thank you. I think I can buy most of those locally. I know the Pet Supermarket here carries Natural Balance. The vet recommended the duck/green pea, but I was concerned about the fat content and the carb count. I'll check.

My goodness, so many foods to try. I guess that's how you end up with 9 months of trials! Looks like Kitty is going to get a new menu soon.
 
Hi Kathy
I have no advice on IBD or allergies. I just wanted to sned hugs
and feel better tummy for Kitty.

I have started used the Nature Valley Instinct frozen medalions.
My kitties seem to like it although I do have to shmear some Ff over the top.
2 of them will eat it full raw, the other 2 not as much.
They are grain free. Very easy to use. Take your porion out for the day the night
before defrost in fridge!
So far I have used the lamb and chicken.

Hope you find some answers.
 
Good luck with the de-worming...hope Big kitty feels better soon....lots of great suggestions here Kathy! :razz:
Sending feel better vines to him...and hugs to you.... :YMHUG:
 
As far as cooking skills, feeding raw requires about the same level of skill as adding water and mixing a powder if you don't want to buy the already frozen medallions. I make my own raw. You can always buy ground chicken and use a pre-mix. If you need a novel protein, it's harder to get ground rabbit unless there's a butcher who will grind it for you.

Feline's Pride comes in a tub -- usually 1 pound. It generally arrives mostly frozen. I don't know if you can section it off so you have a manageable amount in the refrigerator. It's very high quality.

I think the Natural Balance is pretty high in carbs. I don't know if it's on Janet & Binky's list, though.
 
i used feline's pride for several years before having delivery problems. the food comes in 2.5 pound containers and is difficult to portion when it arrives frozen like it's supposed to. the nature's variety frozen medallions are much easier to use. nashville pet products used to carry them. not sure if they still do. i haven't looked for them since i started making my own raw food. it might be worth calling to ask...
 
I didn't realize so many beans fed raw! Maybe I have the wrong idea about it altogether. I know i like my own food cooked... I thought it was unsanitary or prone to contamination or something.

Could someone who uses it tell me about the consistency? It must not be too tough if Gabby eats it. Is it more like eating a steak or ground meat? Kitty has some teeth issues and wouldn't do well with food he has to tear apart.

Sienne, I can boil water, and I can stir powders. Skills end there!
 
Thanks for that info! I'll look for the carb content. If it's low, I guess it couldn't hurt to try! Maybe Kitty would like some nice... raw meat :o !
 
Hi Kathy-

Boomer had IBD and I wanted so badly for him to like raw food, but he wouldn't touch it. I tried a few flavors of NV but no luck. It's very easy to serve. Merlin will eat it but he doesn't love it. After looking into raw it really seemed like a great chance to get Boomer better without all the meds. Boomer also had a condition (and I can't remember the name anymore :o ) that his intestine didn't absorb the nutrients in his food. It was very rare in cats. He had to be given Pancrezyme powder to help absorb nutrients. He was also on budesonide and was able to go OTJ while on it. I still have some if it turns out that Kitty needs it I'll send it.

Merlin (who I have had for 4 months now) had diarhea for 2 straight months and I switched to Wellness grain-free and he was instantly cured. I was SO relieved.

Boomer first had an ultrasound but IBD can only be diagnosed "officially" by a biopsy. You can treat IBD without a biopsy, but it's a best guess. He wasn't doing well so then he had an endoscopy. At the time I wasn't convinced that he could handle a more invasive procedure. He had moderate IBD - the three ratings were mild, moderate and severe. Then he was put in leukaran. Looking back, he really didn't even need the biopsy because we would have put him on leukaran anyway because that was the only other choice. Sorry - I'm rambling here. It was a very tough time. I hope your food changes work. IBD sucks.
 
Traci -- That was so helpful, thank you. I really, really hope to avoid putting Kitty through invasive procedures, and our vet has also stated that only the biopsy can diagnose it for sure.

Kitty has had no diarrhea (knock wood!!!), and he has his appetite. It's just that persistent barfing every few days, for many weeks now, and the weight loss. Something is upsetting that digestive and absorption of nutrients -- that's what sounds logical to me. Thanks for mentioning the Pancrezyme. That's something I can ask the vet about.

I've been giving him the FF Turkey on the plate with his usual chicken, and today for the first time, he ate the turkey and left the chicken. I know I'm grasping at straws here, but it gave me hope. Now I just have to wait a few days to see whether he barfs.

So if you wan to send settled-tummy vines, that would be great. :mrgreen: Thanks again.
 
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