11/23/22 New Member

[Henry’s Mom]

Hello! I am Henry’s mom! Henry is a 15 year old kitty who was recently diagnosed with diabetes and started on insulin (Vetsulin 2U twice a day) on 10/31/22. He rules over his kingdom that includes his two other cat siblings, Hailey and Spicy, and the court jester, Max the golden retriever. Henry is our “first born” and love of our lives.

Henry’s diabetes history:
BG in April 2022 was normal at 111 - at this time he was already starting to become more withdrawn and lost about 2 lbs (he was usually around 13 lbs) so that’s why I asked for bloodwork to be done - vet did not recommend anything except continue to monitor

Henry’s more obvious symptoms started over the summer - polydipsia, polyuria, lethargy, weight loss, hind leg weakness - brought him to the vet who suggested he had an infection and started him on oral antibiotics x 2 weeks.

Brought back to vet in October because he started walking on his hocks on right leg, in addition to the above symptoms continuing, asked for bloodwork to be done again.

BG in October 2022 was 400+ and was started on Vetsulin 2U twice a day on 10/31/22.

BG on 11/6/22 at +6 was 111 - vet told us to keep everything as is (no change to dosage or diet) and come back in two weeks.

11/23/22 Joined FDMB and going to purchase a glucometer kit today. Will get a spreadsheet started today and get my signature up. Lots to read up on!

11/26/22 Going to bring Henry to a new vet. Should I ask to change his insulin to Lantus instead?

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

WELCOME!!

You are up to a great start already, home testing is one of the best things you can do to help him, the other is the food, what is he eating? Do you know if it's low carb or not?, and the good thing is that you can actually change everyone to a low carb high protein diet, they will all benefit from it and you won't have to worry about Henry getting some bad snacks from his siblings

In my experience Lantus is one of the best insulins for cats so if you can changing him to Lantus could be a good idea

 

[Henry’s Mom]

WELCOME!!

You are up to a great start already, home testing is one of the best things you can do to help him, the other is the food, what is he eating? Do you know if it's low carb or not?, and the good thing is that you can actually change everyone to a low carb high protein diet, they will all benefit from it and you won't have to worry about Henry getting some bad snacks from his siblings

In my experience Lantus is one of the best insulins for cats so if you can changing him to Lantus could be a good idea

Thank you! I am going to ask the new vet about Lantus. Henry eats Fancy Feast pate, small portions throughout the day and he usually finishes a total of 3 cans per day.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome Kay,AJ and Henry and all your other furry friends!
I would buy a human meter as it is much cheaper to run, our dosing methods are based on the human meter numbers and it is just as good as the pet meter. Not sure where you live but the US walmarts has a ReliOn meter which is not expensive.you will also need some lancets….get size 26 or 28 gauge and some cotton rounds to hold at the back of the ear as you test and then hold upon the prick for a few seconds to stop bruising.
Vetsulin is not a great insulin for cats. It is really a dog insulin and their metabolism is different to cats. Lantus is a bit better insulin for cats and is recommended by the US vet association. Yes I would ask to swap to Lantus.
I am also concerned that you were started off with 2 units. That is too much. The starting dose is 1/2 to 1 unit.
If you are not feeding a low carb diet yet, I would not change over to one until you are hometesting as the change over can drop the BG a lot.

I am going to link HELP US HELP YOU as it has a lot of information for new members including the hypo kit. I would get that set up asap.
I’m looking forward to seeing the spreadsheet.

HOMETESTING HINTS AND LINKS another link for you to look at.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank you! I am going to ask the new vet about Lantus. Henry eats Fancy Feast pate, small portions throughout the day and he usually finishes a total of 3 cans per day.

Welcome, I have to tell you Henry is so adorable! What a preciousl face
many members use the generic lantus
Lantus is expensive in the US
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year
Its generic lantus

Or this one
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1

Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens

You will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings for lantus , just insert the syringe into the pen and draw out the insulin.
13.47 for a box of 100 Here is the link to buy them from
If they say you need a script from you vet they will call the vet to fax it over 'ask for refills and give your vets office a heads up . I know that some member didn't need a script at all ,I did I live in N.J. So I guess it depends on where you live

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct



We use the pens just like a vial , just stick the syringe in the gray rubber stopper and draw out your insulin
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!

Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

The reason we don't use the needles that would go in the pens is because you can only dial the pens by whole units
With the U-100 syringes with half unit markings we can adjust by 0.25 units at a time
@Henry’s Mom

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

Henry is adorable and clearly knows how to strike a pose! No wonder he rules the kingdom.

You have great instincts and seem to know more than the vet. (I can't imagine putting a cat -- or human for that matter -- on insulin without having bloodwork. A basic panel would have ruled out an infection and told you his blood glucose numbers were elevated over the summer.)

If a new vet gives you push back about starting Lantus, there are two insulins that are recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn -- Lantus and Prozinc. This is a link to their guidelines in case you need to let the new vet know you've done your homework.

If you switch to Lantus, you will need to use a different syringe. Vetsulin is a U40 insulin and the syringe you're using is a U40 syringe. The syringe needs to match the concentration of the insulin. Lantus/glargine is a U100 insulin so you need a U100 syringe. Diane is correct -- Lantus is expensive in the US. Many people either purchase their Lantus from Canada (at Marks Marine Pharmacy) or are now purchasing biosimilars (aka generics). You may need to call around to see which pharmacies carry the biosimilar.

Lantus works differently than Vetsulin. If you make the switch, we'll give you more reading to do (sorry)! Please let us know how we can help.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Welcome and you’ve already gotten comprehensive info from everyone here. I just wanted to talk about his back legs. What you’re describing is called neuropathy and it’s common in cats whose diabetes is unregulated. It was one of the symptoms Minnie developed early on. It happens because the extra sugar in their bodies starts to attack and damage the nerves mainly in their back legs. The good news is that once he’s regulated, it’s totally reversible. Minnie’s got so severe she couldn’t jump or go in and out of the litter box, but once she was regulated after about 3 months, she recovered 99% (even though her vets said she never would!) You can also give him Zobaline, which is a special b12 supplement that works to help regenerate the nerves. @Diane Tyler's Mom has the info on it. It’s been a while and I don’t remember but I got the generic version and I’d open the capsules and mix it with her food.

switching to Lantus and home testing is def the best way to get help regulated

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Brought back to vet in October because he started walking on his hocks on right leg,

Methyl B-12 for neuropathy it's tasteless ,just sprinkle it on the wet food and add water to it. Give one per day
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
14.49 for 100 capsules
Once you start to get Herman's BG regulated and starting the Methyl B-12 you should start seeing an improvement
Tyler had neuropathy and he's back to walking and jumping
Took about less than 2 months, but every couple of weeks I saw improvement

 

[Henry’s Mom]

Hi and welcome Kay,AJ and Henry and all your other furry friends!
I would buy a human meter as it is much cheaper to run, our dosing methods are based on the human meter numbers and it is just as good as the pet meter. Not sure where you live but the US walmarts has a ReliOn meter which is not expensive.you will also need some lancets….get size 26 or 28 gauge and some cotton rounds to hold at the back of the ear as you test and then hold upon the prick for a few seconds to stop bruising.
Vetsulin is not a great insulin for cats. It is really a dog insulin and their metabolism is different to cats. Lantus is a bit better insulin for cats and is recommended by the US vet association. Yes I would ask to swap to Lantus.
I am also concerned that you were started off with 2 units. That is too much. The starting dose is 1/2 to 1 unit.
If you are not feeding a low carb diet yet, I would not change over to one until you are hometesting as the change over can drop the BG a lot.

I am going to link HELP US HELP YOU as it has a lot of information for new members including the hypo kit. I would get that set up asap.
I’m looking forward to seeing the spreadsheet.

HOMETESTING HINTS AND LINKS another link for you to look at.

Thank you so so much. I appreciate everyone’s help more than you can know! I did not buy the glucometer yet, but definitely getting one today after seeing Henry’s new vet. I was looking at human meters and there are so many. I did see the ReliOn on Amazon though so I may go with that since others have had success with it.

 

[Henry’s Mom]

Welcome, I have to tell you Henry is so adorable! What a preciousl face
many members use the generic lantus
Lantus is expensive in the US
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year
Its generic lantus

Or this one
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1

Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens

You will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings for lantus , just insert the syringe into the pen and draw out the insulin.
13.47 for a box of 100 Here is the link to buy them from
If they say you need a script from you vet they will call the vet to fax it over 'ask for refills and give your vets office a heads up . I know that some member didn't need a script at all ,I did I live in N.J. So I guess it depends on where you live

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct



We use the pens just like a vial , just stick the syringe in the gray rubber stopper and draw out your insulin
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!

Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

The reason we don't use the needles that would go in the pens is because you can only dial the pens by whole units
With the U-100 syringes with half unit markings we can adjust by 0.25 units at a time
@Henry’s Mom

Thank you sooo much…this is such great information. Today we are seeing Henry’s new vet and will discuss the information you have all provided here. This group has been so helpful in alleviating some concerns. This week I’ve just been so upset thinking how I should have looked for a new vet sooner; felt like Henry was being strung along all summer and could have been started on insulin sooner.

 

[Henry’s Mom]

Welcome to FDMB!

Henry is adorable and clearly knows how to strike a pose! No wonder he rules the kingdom.

You have great instincts and seem to know more than the vet. (I can't imagine putting a cat -- or human for that matter -- on insulin without having bloodwork. A basic panel would have ruled out an infection and told you his blood glucose numbers were elevated over the summer.)

If a new vet gives you push back about starting Lantus, there are two insulins that are recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn -- Lantus and Prozinc. This is a link to their guidelines in case you need to let the new vet know you've done your homework.

If you switch to Lantus, you will need to use a different syringe. Vetsulin is a U40 insulin and the syringe you're using is a U40 syringe. The syringe needs to match the concentration of the insulin. Lantus/glargine is a U100 insulin so you need a U100 syringe. Diane is correct -- Lantus is expensive in the US. Many people either purchase their Lantus from Canada (at Marks Marine Pharmacy) or are now purchasing biosimilars (aka generics). You may need to call around to see which pharmacies carry the biosimilar.

Lantus works differently than Vetsulin. If you make the switch, we'll give you more reading to do (sorry)! Please let us know how we can help.

Thank you That was Henry last year! He’s gotten more scruffy and lost weight since then, and finally know why. I hope he can get some weight back on once his glucose is regulated. And hopefully his hind legs will get stronger too! Thank you for the info on Lantus and Prozinc; I will review today! I appreciate all this information so much.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

If you're noticing diabetic neuropathy, methylcobalamin (methyl-B12) can help. There's a product called Zobaline that's available on Amazon that's formulated specifically for cats. The combination of this specific form of vitamin B12 along with getting your cat's numbers in a better range can help a great deal.

 

[Henry’s Mom]

If you're noticing diabetic neuropathy, methylcobalamin (methyl-B12) can help. There's a product called Zobaline that's available on Amazon that's formulated specifically for cats. The combination of this specific form of vitamin B12 along with getting your cat's numbers in a better range can help a great deal.

I forgot to mention - we started him on the Zobaline this past week after reading about it in other discussions. Thank you so much!

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

There’s also a generic version:

Methyl B-12 for neuropathy it's tasteless ,just sprinkle it on the wet food and add water to it. Give one per day
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
14.49 for 100 capsules

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

How are things going today?

 

[Henry’s Mom]

How are things going today?

Hi there! Thank you for asking. So we brought Henry to the new vet yesterday - the difference was night and day from his previous vet (who has been seeing him since he was a kitten unfortunately). They did their own workup (bloodwork, urine, physical exam) including taking fructosamine (?) level, and provided a lot of education about managing feline diabetes (a lot of which I’ve read about on this forum ). Her plan is to see how Henry’s blood sugar has been over the past 2-3 weeks via the fructosamine level then based on that determine if Lantus or Prozinc would be better for Henry. Then she recommended we do the Freestyle Libre for 2 weeks to see how Henry’s sugar reacts to whichever insulin/dosage she will prescribe. She also showed us how to check his sugar using a glucometer. So right now, just waiting for his results to come back. I will be sure to update on the results. Henry is otherwise doing as well as he can be, grooming a lot more, started licking my husband’s face again to wake him up for breakfast (he had not done this since earlier this year). Staying positive about management of his glucose with the new vet and the knowledge shared on this forum.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I’m glad it went well with the new vet and you are happy with her. And it’s good she is on board with home testing. . Not all vets are.
Not sure how looking at the fructosamine test will tell her which insulin to use. That’s the first time I’ve heard that. But both Lantus and Prozinc are good insulins. One thing to think about is you will get a lot more help here using Lantus as there are many more who use it compared to Prozinc in the forum.
looking forward to an update.

 

[Henry’s Mom]

I’m glad it went well with the new vet and you are happy with her. And it’s good she is on board with home testing. . Not all vets are.
Not sure how looking at the fructosamine test will tell her which insulin to use. That’s the first time I’ve heard that. But both Lantus and Prozinc are good insulins. One thing to think about is you will get a lot more help here using Lantus as there are many more who use it compared to Prozinc in the forum.
looking forward to an update.

Thank you! I think I misunderstood the vet. The fructosamine seems to be a check of average blood glucose over the past 2-3 weeks and she wanted to see if Henry’s current insulin (and dosage) needs to be change. Henry’s fructosamine was 327 and she advised that we try 1U of Vetsulin twice a day (from 2U twice a day) and see how he does over the next 2 weeks. She also showed us how to do the glucose check by pricking the ear.

And thank you for the info about Lantus v Prozinc! I guess the discussion of changing the insulin will be continued at his follow up in 2 weeks.

Other info…urine sample did not show any sugar, no ketones…there were some other labs the vet went over and she emailed me the information…she would like us to continue to monitor his weight as well. Since Henry started insulin a month ago, it seems that he’s gained 1 lb!

 

[Chrispooky12]

Thank you! I think I misunderstood the vet. The fructosamine seems to be a check of average blood glucose over the past 2-3 weeks and she wanted to see if Henry’s current insulin (and dosage) needs to be change. Henry’s fructosamine was 327 and she advised that we try 1U of Vetsulin twice a day (from 2U twice a day) and see how he does over the next 2 weeks. She also showed us how to do the glucose check by pricking the ear.

And thank you for the info about Lantus v Prozinc! I guess the discussion of changing the insulin will be continued at his follow up in 2 weeks.

Other info…urine sample did not show any sugar, no ketones…there were some other labs the vet went over and she emailed me the information…she would like us to continue to monitor his weight as well. Since Henry started insulin a month ago, it seems that he’s gained 1 lb!

If you can share your labs here there are quite few members who are very experienced in reading & understanding them one being @Suzanne & Darcy