11/22/22 New Member - Feeling overwhelmed and disappointed in myself

[tessa's mom]

Hi all! My sweet girl Tessa was just diagnosed with diabetes today. She had been sick last week (lethargic, not eating all of her food, horribly foul poop, drinking way more than usual, etc.) and had a vet appointment. Her liver enzymes were elevated and her glucose was high. She went in today for a urinalysis and repeat glucose test and together they confirmed that she's diabetic. We got insulin and put a Freestyle Libre on her so we can check her numbers more regularly. I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed but trying my best to not break down because Tessa needs me to be strong for her.

I'm also feeling really disappointed in myself because I feel like I "let" this happen, maybe even "made" this happen. She had been having some digestive issues a couple months ago and I let the vet talk me into trying a prescription diet. I knew that the foods (both canned and dry) were high in carbs but I was desperate because she was having diarrhea daily and I was so sick of trying to clean nasty poop off of her, the floor, the side of the litter box, etc. So I put her on that way too high carb diet and it wasn't long before she started showing the signs of diabetes.

I wrote off the extra thirst because she was eating dry food. I wrote off the weight loss because she wasn't eating as much. I ignored the signs that were as clear as day and I hate myself for it. I hate that I let myself be talked into that garbage "prescription" diet instead of continuing to fight the diarrhea in other ways. Now I'm paying the price both literally and figuratively.

I'm changing Tessa's diet to be low carb canned ONLY and I'm going to give her S. Boulardii in hopes that it will keep her poop firm. My other cat is going to finish off the rest of the prescription food and then she's moving to the low carb canned food too. I cannot let this happen to any other cat.

Sorry for the long rant, I just needed to get this out somewhere.

 

[chuckstables]

Hi!

Welcome to this forum. Getting a freestyle libre is a great investment. It makes the whole testing thing a non issue.

This is NOT YOUR FAULT. At all. Diabetes doesn’t develop overnight. It’s genetic, and still under researched in felines. I guarantee you a few months of a high carb diet didn’t cause this.

Please watch 14:30 to 14:50 of this video; https://youtu.be/evRCy0lEjIM. I will paraphrase; diabetic cats are genetically abnormal. There is something intrinsically wrong with their beta cells that causes this tendency to not work properly. So YOU did NOT cause this. I just want to make that clear. You shouldn’t be feeling guilty. You didn’t cause one of a dozen mutations linked to feline diabetes. You didn’t notice the signs for the same reason i didn’t. We didn’t go to school for 8 years to learn about veterinary medicine. And because the signs happen so slowly.

So; what insulin is Tessa on? Prozinc or Glargine are ideal for cats; caninsulin is not. Sam was on caninsulin for 6 weeks; he still ate a lot, drank a lot, and peed a lot. Fructosamine tests showed caninsulin was not controlling him.

Also; please be careful with switching diets. If Tessa is on insulin; switching to a low carb diet could tank her blood sugar. Hypoglycaemia is deadly. You should make a hypo kit. Get some high carb wet food, and some corn syrup and have them ready in case she shows signs of hypoglycaemia. You’ll also want a normal syringe to squirt the syrup into her mouth if she’s not okay. See this link for more info. https://felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm

This place is amazing; if you need help or you are worried reach out. Others who are more senior than me will reach out as well. Might be a bit quieter than usual due to American Thanksgiving.

TLDR; Tessa will be fine. None of this is your fault. It is genetically caused. You are an amazing person and an INCREDIBLE cat owner. I wish you both the best. Reach out if you’re struggling with this, with insulin Tessa will be right as rain

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
Regarding the food. Changing to a low carb diet is a great idea, but it can lower the blood glucose considerably, so I would not do it until you have a spreadsheet set up and we can help you with the transition.
Do you have a hypo kit set up in case of low numbers.
HELP US HELP YOU has very useful information and links to the hypo kit, the spreadsheet and the signature. You might like to have a look.

 

[PH&MonkeyPenPenFaFaTiger]

Hi all! My sweet girl Tessa was just diagnosed with diabetes today. She had been sick last week (lethargic, not eating all of her food, horribly foul poop, drinking way more than usual, etc.) and had a vet appointment. Her liver enzymes were elevated and her glucose was high. She went in today for a urinalysis and repeat glucose test and together they confirmed that she's diabetic. We got insulin and put a Freestyle Libre on her so we can check her numbers more regularly. I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed but trying my best to not break down because Tessa needs me to be strong for her.

I'm also feeling really disappointed in myself because I feel like I "let" this happen, maybe even "made" this happen. She had been having some digestive issues a couple months ago and I let the vet talk me into trying a prescription diet. I knew that the foods (both canned and dry) were high in carbs but I was desperate because she was having diarrhea daily and I was so sick of trying to clean nasty poop off of her, the floor, the side of the litter box, etc. So I put her on that way too high carb diet and it wasn't long before she started showing the signs of diabetes.

I wrote off the extra thirst because she was eating dry food. I wrote off the weight loss because she wasn't eating as much. I ignored the signs that were as clear as day and I hate myself for it. I hate that I let myself be talked into that garbage "prescription" diet instead of continuing to fight the diarrhea in other ways. Now I'm paying the price both literally and figuratively.

I'm changing Tessa's diet to be low carb canned ONLY and I'm going to give her S. Boulardii in hopes that it will keep her poop firm. My other cat is going to finish off the rest of the prescription food and then she's moving to the low carb canned food too. I cannot let this happen to any other cat.

Sorry for the long rant, I just needed to get this out somewhere.

Hi, sorry to hear that. I totally get the feeling of "I "let" this happen, maybe even "made" this happen.

Some time ago I was extremely guilty and regretful because i felt i "failed" my cats, i was thinking "why i was not careful" "why am I so stupid and neglectful" and loop for thousands of times.

But I later forgive myself, because i realised that we human, have a lot of cognitive bias that make us do the wrong thing or not do the right thing. When I was very stressed at life, I did not have the psychological resource to monitor my cats close and careful enough.

Even I love my cats so much that i want to give them perfect life, life can catch us off guard. So my advice is to admit your limitations and forgive yourself. You are better than most pet-owner already.

Also, in order for me to prevent careless mistake, now i have a system that for example there is a reminder email every week that remind me to slow down and review my practice of care to my cats

 

[Henry’s Mom]

Hello! New to feline diabetes as well. Our Henry was diagnosed on 10/31/22. Came here to say I am suffering from tremendous guilt for not doing “more” when the symptoms were there. Could have been more persistent at the vet that something was wrong. But we are all doing our best and I was comforted to read about someone in a similar situation.

You are not alone and you are doing the best you can for Tessa! She is lucky you’re her mom!

 

[tessa's mom]

Hi!

Welcome to this forum. Getting a freestyle libre is a great investment. It makes the whole testing thing a non issue.

This is NOT YOUR FAULT. At all. Diabetes doesn’t develop overnight. It’s genetic, and still under researched in felines. I guarantee you a few months of a high carb diet didn’t cause this.

Please watch 14:30 to 14:50 of this video; https://youtu.be/evRCy0lEjIM. I will paraphrase; diabetic cats are genetically abnormal. There is something intrinsically wrong with their beta cells that causes this tendency to not work properly. So YOU did NOT cause this. I just want to make that clear. You shouldn’t be feeling guilty. You didn’t cause one of a dozen mutations linked to feline diabetes. You didn’t notice the signs for the same reason i didn’t. We didn’t go to school for 8 years to learn about veterinary medicine. And because the signs happen so slowly.

So; what insulin is Tessa on? Prozinc or Glargine are ideal for cats; caninsulin is not. Sam was on caninsulin for 6 weeks; he still ate a lot, drank a lot, and peed a lot. Fructosamine tests showed caninsulin was not controlling him.

Also; please be careful with switching diets. If Tessa is on insulin; switching to a low carb diet could tank her blood sugar. Hypoglycaemia is deadly. You should make a hypo kit. Get some high carb wet food, and some corn syrup and have them ready in case she shows signs of hypoglycaemia. You’ll also want a normal syringe to squirt the syrup into her mouth if she’s not okay. See this link for more info. https://felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm

This place is amazing; if you need help or you are worried reach out. Others who are more senior than me will reach out as well. Might be a bit quieter than usual due to American Thanksgiving.

TLDR; Tessa will be fine. None of this is your fault. It is genetically caused. You are an amazing person and an INCREDIBLE cat owner. I wish you both the best. Reach out if you’re struggling with this, with insulin Tessa will be right as rain

Thank you, I needed some perspective. I think my emotions are really raw because I lost a cat to cancer 2 years ago and having another cat with health problems dredges up the memories of what he went through before he died. I actually adopted Tessa and her "sister" (not related but had been together their entire lives) a few months after he passed.

Tessa is on Glargine. 1 unit twice a day (my husband and I picked 7am and 7pm since they were reliable times that we'd be awake and home).

I have everything on the hypo tool box except a bulb syringe (unless the one that came in my ear cleaning kit would work?). I haven't bought a regular glucose monitor and test strips yet. I just have the Libre sensor on her. The vet didn't tell me to get one but she didn't tell me a lot of things that I am reading here.

I was very clear with the vet that I was changing her to a very low carb diet and even mentioned that the foods would be under 10% carbs and she said that was fine even with the insulin. I had asked her if it was OK to wait to start the insulin until after the holiday but she said she really wanted me to start right away. I'm not too thrilled about that because if she gets sick tomorrow (Thanksgiving), we will be rushing to the emergency vet and my husband will be an hour away with our only vehicle. Luckily my mom lives 5 minutes away and would drop everything to help me and my cat (she calls my cats her grandkitties lol).

But since multiple people are warning me against changing her food, I will keep the higher carb canned food in rotation until we have more data and know how the insulin is affecting her. She'll eat pretty much anything so I can switch at any time.

 

[tessa's mom]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
Regarding the food. Changing to a low carb diet is a great idea, but it can lower the blood glucose considerably, so I would not do it until you have a spreadsheet set up and we can help you with the transition.
Do you have a hypo kit set up in case of low numbers.
HELP US HELP YOU has very useful information and links to the hypo kit, the spreadsheet and the signature. You might like to have a look.

Thank you! I looked at the spreadsheet last night but got overwhelmed and decided it would be better to look at it when I get off work today and can think a bit more clearly.

I will keep her on the higher carb canned food and just add in some lower carb canned until we see how the insulin is affecting her. The vet didn't seem to have a problem with me switching her food and starting insulin at the same time but I will take the advice of owners of diabetic cats over the advice from a vet who tried to convince me to buy the garbage prescription food any day of the week lol.

I answered this in another comment as well but I do have all the stuff listed on the hypo kit page aside from the bulb syringe and I don't have a regular glucose monitor and strips yet. The vet didn't tell me I needed those things but I'm reading that the Libre might not be 100% accurate all the time so I will pick up a regular monitor too.

 

[tessa's mom]

Hi, sorry to hear that. I totally get the feeling of "I "let" this happen, maybe even "made" this happen.

Some time ago I was extremely guilty and regretful because i felt i "failed" my cats, i was thinking "why i was not careful" "why am I so stupid and neglectful" and loop for thousands of times.

But I later forgive myself, because i realised that we human, have a lot of cognitive bias that make us do the wrong thing or not do the right thing. When I was very stressed at life, I did not have the psychological resource to monitor my cats close and careful enough.

Even I love my cats so much that i want to give them perfect life, life can catch us off guard. So my advice is to admit your limitations and forgive yourself. You are better than most pet-owner already.

Also, in order for me to prevent careless mistake, now i have a system that for example there is a reminder email every week that remind me to slow down and review my practice of care to my cats

Thank you! Sometimes I do need that reminder that I am only human. I won't get into details but my childhood was not great and sometimes I beat myself up for not being perfect because I was expected to be perfect as a kid.

I love your idea of setting up a reminder to review the care of your cats. My husband and I both have ADHD (he takes meds, I don't) so things can definitely slip our minds and setting up a reminder is a great way to be sure that we are doing everything that needs to be done and nothing is being forgotten.

 

[tessa's mom]

Hello! New to feline diabetes as well. Our Henry was diagnosed on 10/31/22. Came here to say I am suffering from tremendous guilt for not doing “more” when the symptoms were there. Could have been more persistent at the vet that something was wrong. But we are all doing our best and I was comforted to read about someone in a similar situation.

You are not alone and you are doing the best you can for Tessa! She is lucky you’re her mom!

It is comforting to know I'm not alone in feeling this way.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

looked at the spreadsheet last night but got overwhelmed and decided it would be better to look at it when I get off work today and can think a bit more clearly.

If you don’t think you can manage to set it up I will ask @Bandit's Mom to do it for you. She can do it in a minute!

will keep her on the higher carb canned food and just add in some lower carb canned until we see how the insulin is affecting her. The vet didn't seem to have a problem with me switching her food and starting insulin at the same time but I will take the advice of owners of diabetic cats over the advice from a vet who tried to convince me to buy the garbage prescription food any day of the week lol.

Very sensible !

answered this in another comment as well but I do have all the stuff listed on the hypo kit page aside from the bulb syringe and I don't have a regular glucose monitor and strips yet. The vet didn't tell me I needed those things but I'm reading that the Libre might not be 100% accurate all the time so I will pick up a regular monitor too.

Are you talking about the freestyle libre that sits on the skin? We have found that it is not always accurate when it gets into low numbers under 100. So we always say recheck with a normal meter if worried. It is a good idea to learn to use the normal meter anyway as buying the libre all the time is very expensive. It’s great to get you started in the beginning though.

 

[tessa's mom]

If you don’t think you can manage to set it up I will ask @Bandit's Mom to do it for you. She can do it in a minute!

Very sensible !



Are you talking about the freestyle libre that sits on the skin? We have found that it is not always accurate when it gets into low numbers under 100. So we always say recheck with a normal meter if worried. It is a good idea to learn to use the normal meter anyway as buying the libre all the time is very expensive. It’s great to get you started in the beginning though.

I think I got the spreadsheet set up correctly: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...J6_z8dnm4OXp-HpmntsbzQU_v0CbrsUOri2H6/pubhtml

Yes, she has the Freestyle Libre that is on her skin. We figured it would be a good way to ease her into things. She's stressed and annoyed that I keep checking on her, I can only imagine how difficult trying to get blood out of her is going to be lol. She's worth the trouble though.

The Libre app doesn't give any exact numbers unless you manually scan so I don't have any data from overnight other than a chart that I can kind of guess the numbers on. Based on the chart I can see, the lowest number overnight was just above 180, around 9 hours after she received insulin.

Her numbers have all been pretty high today. I'm wondering if it's the "bounce" I read about on the glossary page?

I'm going to look into normal meters and get one ordered soon.

 

[chuckstables]

I think I got the spreadsheet set up correctly: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...J6_z8dnm4OXp-HpmntsbzQU_v0CbrsUOri2H6/pubhtml

Yes, she has the Freestyle Libre that is on her skin. We figured it would be a good way to ease her into things. She's stressed and annoyed that I keep checking on her, I can only imagine how difficult trying to get blood out of her is going to be lol. She's worth the trouble though.

The Libre app doesn't give any exact numbers unless you manually scan so I don't have any data from overnight other than a chart that I can kind of guess the numbers on. Based on the chart I can see, the lowest number overnight was just above 180, around 9 hours after she received insulin.

Her numbers have all been pretty high today. I'm wondering if it's the "bounce" I read about on the glossary page?

I'm going to look into normal meters and get one ordered soon.

If she’s stressed that can increase the numbers. It’s called stress induced hyperglycaemia. Its a big problem when testing at the vet.



EDIT: Looking at that chart you’ll probably have to increase the dose eventually. Super cool to have it broken down every hour though. I’m a “nerd”. I like stats, math, and physics.

 

[tessa's mom]

If she’s stressed that can increase the numbers. It’s called stress induced hyperglycaemia. Its a big problem when testing at the vet.

Yeah, she's really not liking me scanning her every hour (and poking her with a needle twice a day) but as far as I can tell, it's the ONLY way to get an exact number for each hour. I can get a chart with data as long as I scan at least every 8 hours but it doesn't give an exact number. She's been hanging out in more enclosed spaces like her cat condo, under chairs, etc. so she's definitely not feeling great but she did come snuggle with me while I watched TV earlier so she's not hating me at least lol.

 

[chuckstables]

Yeah, she's really not liking me scanning her every hour (and poking her with a needle twice a day) but as far as I can tell, it's the ONLY way to get an exact number for each hour. I can get a chart with data as long as I scan at least every 8 hours but it doesn't give an exact number. She's been hanging out in more enclosed spaces like her cat condo, under chairs, etc. so she's definitely not feeling great but she did come snuggle with me while I watched TV earlier so she's not hating me at least lol.

She’ll get used to the needles don’t worry. I use the 0.3 ml U-100 ones; they have an ultra short needle. Sam barely feels it. Where are you injecting by the way? Sam hated it more at first because his skin was so tight and he had no fat. Now that he’s plumped up he literally doesn’t react at all. I just gently push him down and inject to the left or right of the scruff area. Each cats different though.

If its that stressful for her though to scan it then maybe just scan it a few times? Weird it wouldn’t save the data.

 

[tessa's mom]

She’ll get used to the needles don’t worry. I use the 0.3 ml U-100 ones; they have an ultra short needle. Sam barely feels it. Where are you injecting by the way? Sam hated it more at first because his skin was so tight and he had no fat. Now that he’s plumped up he literally doesn’t react at all. I just gently push him down and inject to the left or right of the scruff area. Each cats different though.

If its that stressful for her though to scan it then maybe just scan it a few times? Weird it wouldn’t save the data.

I've mostly been trying for the side of her chest or her flank area. She cried when I tried the flank so I'll probably stick with the side of the chest. The only problem is that her Libre sensor is on the other side so I can't switch sides to avoid bruising and whatnot. It may be down to technique and the fact that it's hard to see what's going on because she's got long hair.

She has a grooming appointment next week (been on the books since before she got sick) and I'm going to have the groomer give her a teddy bear cut. She's had them before and seems to really enjoy not dealing with her long hair for awhile. Tessa is not a good self-groomer so professional grooming is a must for her at least a couple times a year.

The device does save data, I just can't see exact numbers. Here's what the app is showing me:

Ignore the tint of the picture, I have an app that reduces blue light after dark and it makes everything orange/red lol.

So I can see all the readings, just not the exact numbers for each one. I can only see numbers for the scans I've done manually and I need those numbers for the spreadsheets.

 

[chuckstables]

I've mostly been trying for the side of her chest or her flank area. She cried when I tried the flank so I'll probably stick with the side of the chest. The only problem is that her Libre sensor is on the other side so I can't switch sides to avoid bruising and whatnot. It may be down to technique and the fact that it's hard to see what's going on because she's got long hair.

She has a grooming appointment next week (been on the books since before she got sick) and I'm going to have the groomer give her a teddy bear cut. She's had them before and seems to really enjoy not dealing with her long hair for awhile. Tessa is not a good self-groomer so professional grooming is a must for her at least a couple times a year.

The device does save data, I just can't see exact numbers. Here's what the app is showing me:

Ignore the tint of the picture, I have an app that reduces blue light after dark and it makes everything orange/red lol.

So I can see all the readings, just not the exact numbers for each one. I can only see numbers for the scans I've done manually and I need those numbers for the spreadsheets.

I can tell you that the uncertainty due to noise will be greater than the uncertainty of you eyeballing it. Imagine her glucose is 300. Random noise might make the meter read 315, or 290, or 305. I can eyeball it pretty well; you’d probably only be plus or minus like 5% at most.

I’ll ask around, see if i can find any of my friends who can find a program to convert a graph into data. Might be tough though.

 

[chuckstables]

I've mostly been trying for the side of her chest or her flank area. She cried when I tried the flank so I'll probably stick with the side of the chest. The only problem is that her Libre sensor is on the other side so I can't switch sides to avoid bruising and whatnot. It may be down to technique and the fact that it's hard to see what's going on because she's got long hair.

She has a grooming appointment next week (been on the books since before she got sick) and I'm going to have the groomer give her a teddy bear cut. She's had them before and seems to really enjoy not dealing with her long hair for awhile. Tessa is not a good self-groomer so professional grooming is a must for her at least a couple times a year.

The device does save data, I just can't see exact numbers. Here's what the app is showing me:

Ignore the tint of the picture, I have an app that reduces blue light after dark and it makes everything orange/red lol.

So I can see all the readings, just not the exact numbers for each one. I can only see numbers for the scans I've done manually and I need those numbers for the spreadsheets.

Okay, so I found this https://automeris.io/WebPlotDigitizer/

You have to set the axes by selecting four points and labelling them. Then you have to mask the curve using the tools (draw over the black curve), and then change the color of the curve to black. Then click run and it spits out a bunch of data points. You end up with a bunch of pairs of points like this...

-3.504116260801257, 380.0709956926775
-3.4441791044776124, 370.4217169187619

In this case -3.504 means 3.504 hours before 12am, and 380 is the blood glucose value. I have 80 of these for the rest of the day. If this is too much for you PM me photos like that every day and I can send you the data. I enjoy stuff like this honestly, it's no trouble.

 

[Chrispooky12]

I've mostly been trying for the side of her chest or her flank area. She cried when I tried the flank so I'll probably stick with the side of the chest. The only problem is that her Libre sensor is on the other side so I can't switch sides to avoid bruising and whatnot. It may be down to technique and the fact that it's hard to see what's going on because she's got long hair.

She has a grooming appointment next week (been on the books since before she got sick) and I'm going to have the groomer give her a teddy bear cut. She's had them before and seems to really enjoy not dealing with her long hair for awhile. Tessa is not a good self-groomer so professional grooming is a must for her at least a couple times a year.

The device does save data, I just can't see exact numbers. Here's what the app is showing me:

Ignore the tint of the picture, I have an app that reduces blue light after dark and it makes everything orange/red lol.

So I can see all the readings, just not the exact numbers for each one. I can only see numbers for the scans I've done manually and I need those numbers for the spreadsheets.

I shoot my boy in between his shoulder blades & rotate from one side to the other. I also use the short syringes. He doesn't even mind it, he just keeps eating his food.

 

[tessa's mom]

Okay, so I found this https://automeris.io/WebPlotDigitizer/

You have to set the axes by selecting four points and labelling them. Then you have to mask the curve using the tools (draw over the black curve), and then change the color of the curve to black. Then click run and it spits out a bunch of data points. You end up with a bunch of pairs of points like this...

-3.504116260801257, 380.0709956926775
-3.4441791044776124, 370.4217169187619

In this case -3.504 means 3.504 hours before 12am, and 380 is the blood glucose value. I have 80 of these for the rest of the day. If this is too much for you PM me photos like that every day and I can send you the data. I enjoy stuff like this honestly, it's no trouble.

That is super cool and I very much appreciate the offer but I actually figured out how to get a download of the raw data!

I found the instructions here under "How to export your data from LibreView": https://support.glooko.com/hc/en-us...ibre-1-FreeStyle-Libre-2-or-FreeStyle-Libre-3

I was able to download a CSV file, upload that to google sheets, and now I have data from every 15 minutes since the sensor was activated. Now I only need to scan her 3-4 times a day.

I was right on the money with my guess that her lowest was just above 180. It was 183 at 3:45am which was 8 hours and 45 minutes after her insulin dose.

 

[tessa's mom]

I shoot my boy in between his shoulder blades & rotate from one side to the other. I also use the short syringes. He doesn't even mind it, he just keeps eating his food.

I'll give this spot a shot (pun intended) tomorrow.

 

[chuckstables]

I'll give this spot a shot (pun intended) tomorrow.

That is super cool and I very much appreciate the offer but I actually figured out how to get a download of the raw data!

I found the instructions here under "How to export your data from LibreView": https://support.glooko.com/hc/en-us...ibre-1-FreeStyle-Libre-2-or-FreeStyle-Libre-3

I was able to download a CSV file, upload that to google sheets, and now I have data from every 15 minutes since the sensor was activated. Now I only need to scan her 3-4 times a day.

I was right on the money with my guess that her lowest was just above 180. It was 183 at 3:45am which was 8 hours and 45 minutes after her insulin dose.

Fantastic! That’s great! Progress is being made. You’re doing a great job. Reach out if you need help.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

The Libre app doesn't give any exact numbers unless you manually scan so I don't have any data from overnight other than a chart that I can kind of guess the numbers on. Based on the chart I can see, the lowest number overnight was just above 180, around 9 hours after she received insulin.
Her numbers have all been pretty high today. I'm wondering if it's the "bounce" I read about on the glossary page?
I'm going to look into normal meters and get one ordered soon.

Yes I can see the SS. Thanks for setting it up.
It is possible she could be bouncing when she dropped to 180 overnight…cats can bounce not only from low numbers or a fast drop but also if they drop lower than they have been used to since getting diabetes.
There is no need to check the BG every hour unless it is dropping fast or is getting low and then you would check more often. Try distracting her by giving her a small low carb treat while you check the libre. All the data you can get is good data for the SS and help us help you.
With Lantus, the onset is usually around +2 and the nadir (lowest point in the cycle) is usually around +4 to +7 but is can be earlier or later. Cats like to keep us guessing.

I'm going to look into normal meters and get one ordered soon.

I would recommend getting a human meter as they are much cheaper to run than Pet meters and our dosing methods are based on the no human meter.
You might like to have a look at our two dosing methods as it is much better if you are following one of them
DOSING METHODS

I was right on the money with my guess that her lowest was just above 180. It was 183 at 3:45am which was 8 hours and 45 minutes after her insulin dose.

Can you pop that into the SS please…great data.

I've mostly been trying for the side of her chest or her flank area. She cried when I tried the flank so I'll probably stick with the side of the chest

It’s possible you hit the muscle and that hurt.

 

[chuckstables]

I'll give this spot a shot (pun intended) tomorrow.

I tend to inject to the left of the scruff. It hurts him less. You should make a skin fold; bunch it up, and inject sideways, not down. It takes some time; but 3 months in i can inject sam in about 2 seconds. He doesn’t even flinch.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

@chuckstables do you have a SS? I can’t see one.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

FWIW, I don't think there's a member here who wasn't completely overwhelmed when they first landed on this Board. Even if the member was a human diabetic and familiar with much of the information, there's still a lot to assimilate. That's the bad news. The good news is that this is a community of devoted caregivers that is willing - and able - to offer help and support.

Please try to not overthink everything. My diabetic kitty, Gabby, was with me for 6.5yrs of diabetes management. She hated a flank shot! I consistently shot in her scruff and mostly on one side. Ditto for testing. She permitted testing on one ear only. (She was a bit of a diva.) Alternating sides both for testing and shooting may make more sense but you can only do what your cat lets you do!

The Libre has been helpful for many people. The downside is that sometimes the sensor fails after only a few days. Compared to a glucometer and strips (providing you're using a meter that has relatively inexpensive strips), a meter is more economical than spending $60 or so every 2 weeks. However, you're correct -- the Libre gives you information as you're starting out and it's one less thing to get accustomed to. Many of the members here use the Walmart brand Relion meter as the strips are the least expensive around.

Bron has provided solid information. In looking at Tessa's spreadsheet, my reaction was the same -- you're likely seeing a bounce. You may want to take a look at the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board if you've not already done so. There's even more information there about how Lantus works, dosing methods, etc.

As for blaming yourself, don't. If eating high carb turned someone into a diabetic, we'd all be diabetic after the holidays when everyone is consuming way too many carbs and way too many desserts. There are many other factors that contribute. You're too good of a cat parent to get caught up in regret. The fact that you're here speaks volumes about how much you care about Tessa.

Please let us know how we can help.

 

[tessa's mom]

Yes I can see the SS. Thanks for setting it up.
It is possible she could be bouncing when she dropped to 180 overnight…cats can bounce not only from low numbers or a fast drop but also if they drop lower than they have been used to since getting diabetes.
There is no need to check the BG every hour unless it is dropping fast or is getting low and then you would check more often. Try distracting her by giving her a small low carb treat while you check the libre. All the data you can get is good data for the SS and help us help you.
With Lantus, the onset is usually around +2 and the nadir (lowest point in the cycle) is usually around +4 to +7 but is can be earlier or later. Cats like to keep us guessing.


I would recommend getting a human meter as they are much cheaper to run than Pet meters and our dosing methods are based on the no human meter.
You might like to have a look at our two dosing methods as it is much better if you are following one of them
DOSING METHODS

Can you pop that into the SS please…great data.
View attachment 65758



It’s possible you hit the muscle and that hurt.

Thank you for all this! I really thought I needed to fill in every blank on the spreadsheet lol. I've been overwhelming myself by trying to read and absorb everything on here and I must have missed the fact that the spreadsheet doesn't need to be 100% complete, just whatever data I can get.

I added all the data I have from the Libre. I suspect that the "HI" readings are something close to 400 but I won't know for sure until I get another meter to check with. I'm also going to order the illumavein because that seems like a good way to handle finding the vein and not sticking myself and it's cheap enough that if I hate it, I won't be out much.

In doing some reading I realized that my vet sold me repackaged insulin which is really annoying. I'm reading that it's illegal so why do so many vets do it? My only thought is that they don't want to scare people with the upfront cost of insulin so they sell small amounts at a time?

I was planning on ordering from that Marks Pharmacy in Canada that I read about on here but if the insulin I already have might be bad, should I pony up the extra to buy some at a local pharmacy first? I am not really good at confrontations so I'm not sure how to handle this with the vet. I was planning on just asking for a paper prescription that I can use anywhere but if I'm going to need to buy locally and then also at Marks, I'm assuming I'll need 2 prescriptions?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Most of the time, Mark's asks you to fax your prescription or to send a copy as an attachment. That means you keep the original.

If it were me, my conversation with the vet might be something along the lines of my having been at the pharmacy and overheard the pharmacist talking about Lantus/glargine and you asked what the price was. You then mentioned that you got yours from your vet. The pharmacist then asked how the vet was able to sell a human insulin and then showed you the packaging. When you said it wasn't in the same packaging that you saw at the pharmacy, the pharmacist then told you that it's illegal to repackage Lantus and, in fact, the other problem is that in transferring the insulin to a second container, it could become contaminated. Given the concerns, you'd like your money back.

If you need to purchase insulin before buying from Mark's, Lantus/glargine is now available as a biosimilar (aka as a generic). It's much less expensive than Lantus. It's on a par with what you'd pay if you ordered from Mark's. There are a number of people here who use a biosimilar. You may need to call around to see which pharmacies in your area stock glargine -- not all do.

 

[tessa's mom]

Welcome to FDMB!

FWIW, I don't think there's a member here who wasn't completely overwhelmed when they first landed on this Board. Even if the member was a human diabetic and familiar with much of the information, there's still a lot to assimilate. That's the bad news. The good news is that this is a community of devoted caregivers that is willing - and able - to offer help and support.

Please try to not overthink everything. My diabetic kitty, Gabby, was with me for 6.5yrs of diabetes management. She hated a flank shot! I consistently shot in her scruff and mostly on one side. Ditto for testing. She permitted testing on one ear only. (She was a bit of a diva.) Alternating sides both for testing and shooting may make more sense but you can only do what your cat lets you do!

The Libre has been helpful for many people. The downside is that sometimes the sensor fails after only a few days. Compared to a glucometer and strips (providing you're using a meter that has relatively inexpensive strips), a meter is more economical than spending $60 or so every 2 weeks. However, you're correct -- the Libre gives you information as you're starting out and it's one less thing to get accustomed to. Many of the members here use the Walmart brand Relion meter as the strips are the least expensive around.

Bron has provided solid information. In looking at Tessa's spreadsheet, my reaction was the same -- you're likely seeing a bounce. You may want to take a look at the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board if you've not already done so. There's even more information there about how Lantus works, dosing methods, etc.

As for blaming yourself, don't. If eating high carb turned someone into a diabetic, we'd all be diabetic after the holidays when everyone is consuming way too many carbs and way too many desserts. There are many other factors that contribute. You're too good of a cat parent to get caught up in regret. The fact that you're here speaks volumes about how much you care about Tessa.

Please let us know how we can help.

Thank you! I'll definitely stick to shots nearer to her scruff, she is doing much better with those. My husband gave her insulin this morning and he said she did great although she's been hiding a lot this morning.

We couldn't find her about 3 hours post shot and I started panicking. It turns out she had crawled inside our loveseat. It's one of those that has recliners on both sides and a storage compartment in the middle, she was under the middle part sleeping. She didn't even come out when I shook a treat container.

I think she's not liking all the poking and prodding. Once she came out, I scanned her Libre and then gave her one of those lickable treat things that's mostly pureed meat.

I'm going to pick up a glucometer and strips this weekend sometime, once the Black Friday shopping rush has died down.

 

[tessa's mom]

Most of the time, Mark's asks you to fax your prescription or to send a copy as an attachment. That means you keep the original.

If it were me, my conversation with the vet might be something along the lines of my having been at the pharmacy and overheard the pharmacist talking about Lantus/glargine and you asked what the price was. You then mentioned that you got yours from your vet. The pharmacist then asked how the vet was able to sell a human insulin and then showed you the packaging. When you said it wasn't in the same packaging that you saw at the pharmacy, the pharmacist then told you that it's illegal to repackage Lantus and, in fact, the other problem is that in transferring the insulin to a second container, it could become contaminated. Given the concerns, you'd like your money back.

If you need to purchase insulin before buying from Mark's, Lantus/glargine is now available as a biosimilar (aka as a generic). It's much less expensive than Lantus. It's on a par with what you'd pay if you ordered from Mark's. There are a number of people here who use a biosimilar. You may need to call around to see which pharmacies in your area stock glargine -- not all do.

Thank you, this is very helpful!

 

[PH&MonkeyPenPenFaFaTiger]

Thank you! Sometimes I do need that reminder that I am only human. I won't get into details but my childhood was not great and sometimes I beat myself up for not being perfect because I was expected to be perfect as a kid.

I love your idea of setting up a reminder to review the care of your cats. My husband and I both have ADHD (he takes meds, I don't) so things can definitely slip our minds and setting up a reminder is a great way to be sure that we are doing everything that needs to be done and nothing is being forgotten.

In terms of caring for pets, I am perfectionist too that beat myself up too, but i dont know where does this trait comes from. I just cannot tolerate my pets are not getting excellemt care.

I use Google Calendar to send email reminders. In case you are not tech savvy, you may just set reoccurring alarm in your phone.

 

[tessa's mom]

So this is probably a dumb question but as long as I can't feel any wetness after I pull the needle out, I probably didn't do a fur shot, right? Her fur is so long that it's hard to see anything that's going on. I know it's pretty normal for numbers to stay high for a bit when starting insulin but I just can't shake that feeling that maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Her spreadsheet is up to date. I added what I had of her labs too.

I also finally added a profile picture with a picture of Tessa. I think it's a super appropriate picture for how she's been feeling lately. It's mid-yawn but it looks like she's doing an open-mouth "what?" kind of look. I smile every time I see it.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

So this is probably a dumb question but as long as I can't feel any wetness after I pull the needle out, I probably didn't do a fur shot, right? Her fur is so long that it's hard to see anything that's going on. I know it's pretty normal for numbers to stay high for a bit when starting insulin but I just can't shake that feeling that maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Her spreadsheet is up to date. I added what I had of her labs too.

I also finally added a profile picture with a picture of Tessa. I think it's a super appropriate picture for how she's been feeling lately. It's mid-yawn but it looks like she's doing an open-mouth "what?" kind of look. I smile every time I see it.

Hi and welcome , not a dumb question at all If you didn't feel any wetness you most likely didn't do a fur shot, also you would definitely smell it on her fur, it smells just like a bandaid
What a great pic of Tessa
Things will get easier , if it wasn't for the advice of the experienced members here Tyler wouldn't be in remission today.

many members use the generic lantus
Lantus is expensive in the US
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year
Its generic lantus

Or this one
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1

Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens

You will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings for lantus , just insert the syringe into the pen and draw out the insulin.
13.47 for a box of 100 Here is the link to buy them from
If they say you need a script from you vet they will call the vet to fax it over 'ask for refills and give your vets office a heads up . I know that some member didn't need a script at all ,I did I live in N.J. So I guess it depends on where you live

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct



We use the pens just like a vial , just stick the syringe in the gray rubber stopper and draw out your insulin
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!

Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

The reason we don't use the needles that would go in the pens is because you can only dial the pens by whole units
With the U-100 syringes with half unit markings we can adjust by 0.25 units at a time

Can you also add to your signature

• Name of Insulin
• Name of your meter
• Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"

@tessa's mom

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

It's not always the case if notice some wetness on Tessa's fur that you gave a fur shot. When I would draw up a dose of insulin, I typically drew off a bit more than I needed. I would then twist the syringe's plunger to "dial in" the accurate dose. A drop or two of insulin would sometimes still be on the needle or the syringe. When I shot, that drop may have been transferred to Gabby's fur. If this was the case, there would be a slightly damp spot and her fur would have that distinctive bandaid smell.

A couple of thoughts for a long-hair cat: When you're going to shoot, blow on the spot to move the fur out of the way so you can better see what you're doing. Alternatively, you could shave a small spot. Frankly, I think you'll get used to what it feels like when you're injecting and now if the syringe went where it was supposed to.

A word of caution, as well. Never, ever shoot a second time if you gave a fur shot. Even if you know that the syringe went in one side and out the other and you saw the insulin squirt across the room, do not give a second shot. There's no way to be certain if any insulin went into your cat. You risk an overdose if you shoot a second time.

 

[tessa's mom]

Hi and welcome , not a dumb question at all If you didn't feel any wetness you most likely didn't do a fur shot, also you would definitely smell it on her fur, it smells just like a bandaid
What a great pic of Tessa
Things will get easier , if it wasn't for the advice of the experienced members here Tyler wouldn't be in remission today.

many members use the generic lantus
Lantus is expensive in the US
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year
Its generic lantus

Or this one
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1

Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens

You will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings for lantus , just insert the syringe into the pen and draw out the insulin.
13.47 for a box of 100 Here is the link to buy them from
If they say you need a script from you vet they will call the vet to fax it over 'ask for refills and give your vets office a heads up . I know that some member didn't need a script at all ,I did I live in N.J. So I guess it depends on where you live

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct



We use the pens just like a vial , just stick the syringe in the gray rubber stopper and draw out your insulin
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!

Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

The reason we don't use the needles that would go in the pens is because you can only dial the pens by whole units
With the U-100 syringes with half unit markings we can adjust by 0.25 units at a time

Can you also add to your signature

• Name of Insulin
• Name of your meter
• Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"

@tessa's mom

Thank you! I added the info to my signature, as requested.

I am definitely going to get the pens and just use them like vials, seems like the best option all around IMO.

It looks like I can get them for ~$125 at Meijer pharmacy using the GoodRX coupon so I'll probably go with that instead of ordering from Canada.

The vet gave me 20 ReliOn syringes to get started (she said they get a lot donated), I'll probably stick with those just because I'm getting used to them. They do have the half markings on them.

 

[tessa's mom]

It's not always the case if notice some wetness on Tessa's fur that you gave a fur shot. When I would draw up a dose of insulin, I typically drew off a bit more than I needed. I would then twist the syringe's plunger to "dial in" the accurate dose. A drop or two of insulin would sometimes still be on the needle or the syringe. When I shot, that drop may have been transferred to Gabby's fur. If this was the case, there would be a slightly damp spot and her fur would have that distinctive bandaid smell.

A couple of thoughts for a long-hair cat: When you're going to shoot, blow on the spot to move the fur out of the way so you can better see what you're doing. Alternatively, you could shave a small spot. Frankly, I think you'll get used to what it feels like when you're injecting and now if the syringe went where it was supposed to.

A word of caution, as well. Never, ever shoot a second time if you gave a fur shot. Even if you know that the syringe went in one side and out the other and you saw the insulin squirt across the room, do not give a second shot. There's no way to be certain if any insulin went into your cat. You risk an overdose if you shoot a second time.

Thank you! I've been drawing up a little extra, then flicking to bring bubbles to the surface, and then slowly twisting to get the dose as close to the 1 unit line as possible. I hold it up to the light so I can see that itsy bitsy line more clearly lol.

She's going to get a teddy bear trim next week so her hair won't be a problem then. Of course by then I'll probably have it down. But she needs the trim for other reasons like matting too so she's getting it regardless.

And yes, I will NEVER give her a second dose, no matter what. I've made that clear with my husband too. Always appreciate the reminder though!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Did you have a chance to read the 2 dosing methods for lantus and see which one you might want to follow , Bron posted the link for you in her post #22 ,

They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed, you can always ask someone to take a look at your spreadsheet also

@tessa's mom

 

[tessa's mom]

Did you have a chance to read the 2 dosing methods for lantus and see which one you might want to follow , Bron posted the link for you in her post #22 ,

They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed, you can always ask someone to take a look at your spreadsheet also

@tessa's mom

Yes, I'm leaning towards Start Low Go Slow but I need to talk it over with my husband as well. I unfortunately caught a stomach bug (or ate some bad food on Thanksgiving) and haven't felt great the past few days so things have slipped by the wayside a bit. I'm on the mend though so finally getting Tessa's spreadsheet up to date and ready to jump back in to figuring everything out.

The vet asked us to send in screenshots of the Libre app daily reports after a few days, I'm planning on sending them in tomorrow. I'm assuming she's going to want us to increase her dose since her numbers are still really high.

I need to work more on getting her transitioned over to low carb canned, she's been eating partially low carb (Fancy Feast or Friskies pate) and partially high carb (Hill's i/d canned) based on advice I got earlier in the thread. I was hoping the numbers were just high because of a "bounce" but since they're still high, I'm guessing that's not the case.