11/20 Squamee AMPS 321 .4U +7 260

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judy and squamee(GA)

judy and squamee(GA)

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Hi all,
AMPS 321 .4U
+7 260

No vomiting or diarrhea and she is taking her phenobarb. pill, taking her Flagyl (sort of---spitting out, also), and eating a decent amount with fewer mouth symptoms. However, she is still spending her time under a blanket on the couch, and since the diarrhea stopped (I think that was as of Friday morning) there has been no poop. (can't win, right?!) Don't know how long with no poop before it is of concern.

We are going to give her SubQ fluids in a few hours. nailbite_smile Hope it is as easy as last time and that was not just beginner's luck!
 
Whoopeeeee :thumbup We did it! This was a little harder. Got her settled, got the needle in, but DH , who is in charge of the bag, couldn't get the fluid running. After a few precious and tense minutes, I figured out he did not have the secondary clip opened! So then we were a "go", and halfway through she wiggled and squirmed, and the needle came out, spraying all over the place! And yours truly (Cousin of WonderWoman) told DH to shut off the flow, got the needle back in, and held Squirming Squamee (so in our house SS does not mean spread sheet) until it was finished!

AND , to my utter amazement, yours truly, computer compromised person, figured out how to take a video of Squamee and put it on YouTube---so you can see what she does when she is having trouble eating. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X4lrZgORIQ. Go take a peek at my beautiful kitty.
 
Awwww, a very loved kitty. I like your blue lights too - I love dark + blue light. :smile:

She really has the FOPS thing bad it looks like. :sad:

More than three days w/o poop is bad getting into really worry time. Good thing is that you are doing SubQ which helps soften the stool. The other is lactulose or Miralax. I liked lactulose which is Rx but you might like Mirilax better sing you can put it in there food. Lactulose is oral via syringe. They both do the same thing of drawing water in though the intestinal wall to soften the stool.

Next on the list:
I'm going into Internets blackout tomorrow or Monday until Thursday evening. And I'll be back in SoCal Thursday too so my time zone will change too. If need be and you get into a pickle you can try my cell- it'll just be more difficult for me since I won't be able to see you SS. I've done the remote dosing thing with H though and it works ok. As I mentioned earlier, I think you are starting to really get the hang of things and there are many here that can help. I think Robin has been following some...maybe :roll: .

It's looking like her insulin needs might be up a tick - in general this is good because it would mean she was eating more. But that thing where they were in the 1.2-1.4 range I'm a hint suspicious now of being influenced by whatever the metronidazole is now working on. We'll just have to see how things play out.
 
Oh Gator, I will miss you! And it makes me nervous not to be able to count on you. I find the phone very difficult, but thank you for the offer, and I guess if things get really hairy, I will overcome my reluctance. I know there are other eyes here to help. too.
For tonight
AMPS 321 .4U
+7 260
PMPS 347
She has been eating a lot more, especially this evening. I gave her a special FF treat appetizer after the fluids, and she ate the whole thing, as well as other food. Good new, she is eating, and with fewer symptoms, but difficult in figuring the possible BG spike. The delta is +26 ---do I stay the same dose? Go up a little?
 
Delta is the change from PS to nadir not from PS to PS :smile:

Tonight shoot +.1u since she is not coming down on .4u - so .5u. At 300+ you would definitely like the numbers to come down.
 
Thanks, Gator. Delta is change from previous PS to nadir? So I will shoot .5. I just checked the date I started the medicine, it was evening of Nov 17, so she is 3 days without pooping. I will call the vet tomorrow. Is Miralax something you can just pick up in the pharmacy? How do you know how much to give?
 
Judy, she is beautiful, how sweet, her mouth issues sound painful.

and Gator you're right I've been lurking and learning, so I am familiar with your coarse of action, but havn't had any hands on experience with multiple health issues.

I can help if you want or need.
 
Thank you, Robin. It helps to know I have someone I can check my thinking about the dose with.

And I am glad you watched the video and really got to see Squamee! You, too, Gator. She really does make those strange clicking noises. Vet thought it might be TMJ but dental specialist found no jaw problem. Interesting , but maybe irrelevant piece of info---clicking jaw noises are mentioned as a symptom of kidney disease.
 
Most likely your vet will recommend bringing her in for an enema [if not x-ray then enema]. One can do their own kitty enema so if you go to the vet ask for the lesson or at least to watch while they do it.

Basically the danger is using human enema solution with kitties [it's toxic to kitties] so you can buy the Fleet baby enema bottles, empty them then fill with tap water.

lol if she doesn't like things stuck in one end I'm not sure how she will deal with things stuck in the other end. :shock:

I forget the dosing on miralax - I think it is approx 1/8th or 1/4 tsp twice per day? You can google it. It is at the pharmacy - OTC. But it is something used better for chronic constipation not instant relief.
 
Hi Judy,
the Sub Q's are a learning experience and sounds like you are doing great! i've gotten so I rarely close the second clip because I always realized it when I was out of hands :lol: One suggestion though- when the needle coms out (as it will from time to time) or you don't like the placement for whatever reason, you really need to put on a new needle. I poke Cody 2-4x with the insulin syringe ( I split up his big dose) and he doesn't complain, but when I've re inserted the SQ needle he usually lets me know it hurts.

Thanks for posting that video- I know NOTHING about FOPS. it really looks like something neurological- did they pursue it being a tumor/ - did you ever talk to other beans who have treated them. I think Phoebe tiggy Norton and others gave their kitties pred which helped 'circling' symptoms. Seems like a read a fairly recent post about this over on the high dose/ acro ISG. I'm sorry she has to endure that. She is beautiful cat_pet_icon

Oh and after diarrhea, they can be pretty cleaned out so I would not panic on the lack of poo yet. As G said, the fluids will help. Miralax is tasteless and can be sprinkled on the food, but is better preventative, not so good once she's in trouble. I'm thinking she'll poop by monday, and you wont need to worry.
 
in case I miss it later- the dose I use on Cody is 1/4 teaspoon per 5.5 ounces of Friskies ( or 3/4 measuring cup of food)

I really don't think your gonna need it...

and hate to admit it, but I can help you on the enema too :oops:
 
Gator, I have been thinking about delta, which I had confused with the difference from AMPS to PMPS. The 30 to 50 drops you had been saying were desirable were PS to PS, right? What are we hoping the delta to be? And how is Mr. T?

Nancy,
Thanks for your suggestions. I hope the SubQ needle doesn't pull out again, but I will keep in mind using a new needle. DO you use the Terumo? Although she was not happy with the fluids, I did not get the impression that the needle bothered her---she objected when the liquid started going in. I don't know anybody with a cat with FOPS> I believe it is a pretty rare condition. When she first had it last year, it did respond to a long acting steroid injection. The vet tried that again this year, and it had no effect whatsoever. And the people who write about FOPS use primarily phenobarb. and other anti-epileptics. They consider it to be trigeminal neuralgia, frequently caused by dental problems (which she did have). As far as a brain tumor, it is still a possibility, but the vet said that then the next course of action would be a CAT scan and possible surgery--which I am not willing to do.
And thanks for the info about the miralax, I will buy some tomorrow. I read that people here recommend using pumpkin---which I will also try.

edit---whart a surprise---I forgot to say anything about the enema. I think maybe that really is more than I can do! hope I don't have to find out :-Q
 
judy and squamee said:
Gator, I have been thinking about delta, which I had confused with the difference from AMPS to PMPS. The 30 to 50 drops you had been saying were desirable were PS to PS, right? What are we hoping the delta to be? And how is Mr. T?
Click to expand...
Delta is NOT the drops from PS to PS that I talk about. Heck I need to make up a name for that.

The drops from PS to PS are scaled for the territory you are in so:
<150 = 0 drop from PS to PS wanted
150-200 = 10-20 point drop from PS to PS desired
200-300 = 20-30 point drop from PS to PS desired
300-400 = 30-50 point drop from PS to PS desired

Of course life is not always ideal like that so we take what we can get and improvise along the way.

Also if there are any beginners looking on this, I would just say that it takes some time to get to know [data collect] the dose that will probably drop your kitty 10 points at a PS of 160 for instance. A lot of people just struggle to find the dose [range] that their kitty will even react to.

Keep in mind this is just me making this up - I have never seen this anywhere else. But it sounds good to me. :mrgreen: I'm not some vast repository of info - I'm just kind of making this up as I go based on my experience, how I had kind of worked things plus a little expanding on that experience. I'm trying to keep you Judy in safe territory with a difficult kitty. And heavens to Betsy, if something comes up or you think you need to not follow the above rough guidelines then do not follow them. I outlined that the real goal is not to push her down below 150 which the outline pretty much sets up, I'm just happy for you right now if you can keep her under 300. And honestly that was the goal I set for H, to keep him under 300 [and maybe under 200 as much as possible]. Again life and these complicated kitties do not allow us to run things just perfect.

Sometimes too we run in catch up mode when their insulin needs are increasing. And a decrease from PS to PS in this mode is like off the radar. But basically if the drops are any bigger than outlined then you might think about dropping back the dose a bit.
 
FWIW Cody who eats anything anytime- wouldn't eat pumpkin, :lol:

the thing about miralax is that it can lead to really soft - hard to control poo. when I give too much, poo can just ooze out.

If he had diarrhea on Fri morning, I really might wait until monday... or at least start with 1/2 of what I use.
 
Thanks, Nancy. I REALLY don't want more diarrhea to deal with! I am going to call the vet tomorrow. I want to know if the Flagyl, which I am still supposed to give 2x/day till at least Monday, might be contributing to this.
 
and yes the Terumo ETW are the best- unfortunately I am using a different brand now because it's what I can get locally in boxes of 100. and its more affordable for me on a daily basis. next box I may go back to Terumo.

Currently using B-G or B-D? brand 21 guage - not a big fan - but...

Cody is sssooo patient.
 
As for delta and desired delta I'll send to to what Joanna wrote well about earlier:
viewtopic.php?p=300109#p300109

But the 50-65% is really more when you have a cat that is trying to find the dose that is enough for it [drop would be less than the 50-65%] or is rebounding [drop would be more than 50-65%]. Neither really apply much to you. But we can look at your deltas and if she does not reach the 50% that *might*, and I use that very tentatively in your case, indicate that the dose at that cycle was not enough. Not every cycle needs a delta of 50-65%.
 
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