11/19 Boo Kitty AMPS 414 / PMPS 362

Adam Roberts

Member Since 2020
Hi folks, I'm new here but wanted to ask your advice on my 9YO male, Boo Kitty, who was diagnosed as diabetic about 6 weeks ago but so far we've not been able to get him close to regulated. My vet here in San Francisco as well as a specialist that he's been referred to have not yet been able to crack the code. Today I completed his third-ever curve, and the first I've done (the other two were done by vets; I'm trying it to get hopefully more accurate results & save money). He's 9lbs, 9yo, and now up to 4U on Lantus, but we're seeing minimal effect. More background below, but other than the high BG readings, his only other symptoms are intense hunger -- constantly begging for food, sitting next to his bowl all day, jumping on kitchen counter (he's getting 3/4 can 2X daily of Purina ProPlan DM; no dry food at all), all of which is totally out of character. His thirst is normal. Other than Lantus, he's now on week 2 of weekly B12 injections and we did a round of Cerenia (though vomiting was hardly an issue; happened 1-2 times).

Background:
BK is an indoor cat who in all of his nine years has been very easygoing and never had more than the occasional hairball. In September, I noticed him acting a bit more lethargic than normal, brought him to the vet where they did a basic evaluation, checked vitals, nothing seemed too off so the decision was to simply keep a close eye on him. 4 weeks later (early Oct), he suddenly stopped eating and after 36 hours of not eating at all, I brought him into the vet where he was diagnosed with diabetes and pancreatitis. He was hospitalized for three days, was put on fluids and Lantus, then came home. Ultrasound revealed the pancreatitis, which led the primary vet to refer to an internist who performed more bloodwork and a liver sample, to which she concluded "[the liver sample results are] consistent with changes we see with poorly regulated diabetes. This is nothing to worry about and should resolve as he is better regulated." 6 weeks later, per these results, we continue struggling to get him regulated and (in turn, hopefully) less hungry.

Thoughts on how to proceed? We know 4U is at/above the limit for cats, so we're stuck with how to proceed.

Full curve from today: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...i-JEaH2CfJx/pubhtml?urp=gmail_link&gxids=7628
 
Hello and welcome. If you haven't already, make sure you read the yellow starred Sticky Notes at the top of this forum. There is lots to learn, but we can help you.

First of all, good to see you are home testing. It's is definitely cheaper and a better representation of what a cat's blood sugar values really are. Thank you for starting that spreadsheet too. As for the data, I'm sorry to say there is not enough there yet for us to reach any conclusions on the dose. Can you tell me what AR, Sage, and SF PH are? Another thing, even if you don't have blood sugar test data, would it be possible for you to put in the last two weeks worth of data on how many units of insulin he's gotten in the AM and PM? Lantus is a depot insulin, so we need to see a bit of history on size of dose as well to figure out what is happening.
We know 4U is at/above the limit for cats,
Not true. A cat needs however much insulin they need. We have several cats here on higher doses. My Neko got up to 8.75 units of Lantus.
his only other symptoms are intense hunger -- constantly begging for food, sitting next to his bowl all day, jumping on kitchen counter (he's getting 3/4 can 2X daily of Purina ProPlan DM; no dry food at all), all of which is totally out of character.
Cats in high numbers cannot properly process the food they are getting. Insulin is the key to getting nutrition into their cells, so without it, they will be hungrier. DM is not great food. There are lots of good commercially made foods that work well. Anything under 10% carbs on this food list will work. There are other brands out there too, but this gives you an idea of what is available. Two meals a day is also wrong, even human diabetics are told to eat several small meals. It's easier on their pancreas. It's "old school" thinking that just two meals a day are required - it used to be with the older style insulins, but not true with Lantus. Spreading out his meals, with less time between food, will make him feel fuller.d

Regulation is a process, and you are in early days yet. One of our favourite sayings here is that feline diabetes is a marathon, not a sprint. Hopefully we can help you get where you are going.

I noticed that BK had a big drop at +3 today. Any chance of getting a test in an hour or two? I suspect he might be going lower. It's possible that what you are seeing is he's going low at times, then bouncing. If you test at the wrong times, you see bounces which make you think the dose is too low, when in fact it's too high. Here is the definition of bouncing:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Going forward, make sure you get a test before every shot, to make sure it's safe to give insulin. Post here, and we can help you figure out what to do with the dose.
 
Interesting he’s not thirsty. Wendy has given you excellent advice so I’m just going to say hi and welcome aboard. We can absolutely help you help your Boo Kitty.
 
Thank you all so much for the warm welcome! BK and I appreciate it. I will update the spreadsheet @Wendy&Neko (as well as your other suggestions), but long story short he has been on the same dosage of 4U (2x/day) for the last 3 or so weeks. I am starting to test him before each shot as you suggested and tonight him PMPS was 149!! So thrilled with this but am now concerned that I should definitely not give him his 4U tonight. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Many many thanks!
 
Sorry no one got back to you in time. On this forum, we request one new post per day, so it might have gotten missed as a yesterday's post.

That 149 is very nice. :cool: However, with the data you have so far, you had two options. One was the skip. The other was to wait 1/2 hour, without feeding, to see if he comes up to a number you feel more comfortable shooting. Since you are new, that skip was perfectly fine.

Now I'm wondering if his begging during the day was because he was feeling his blood sugar drop. Are you injecting with syringes? Do you have ones with 1/2 unit markings on them?
 
It’s a good idea to get syringes with half unit markings. If BK needs a dose change, it would be up or down by a smaller amount. If you need to skip a lot, he may need a reduction, but not yet.
 
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