11/13 Gracie PMPS 225 +1 261 +2 216 +4 137

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Marje and Gracie

Marje and Gracie

Member Since 2010
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Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29646

Recap:
AMPS: 353
+2: 248
+4: 296
+6: 205
PMPS: 301
+2: 210
+3: 148
+4: 130
+5: 152
+6: 141
+11.5: 220

HAPPY CATURDAY dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat

WCR: Happy cat!!! 3Ps in place...no playing yet but it's cold in the house this morning and Tobey went btb while I was working on the issue at hand for Grace. She is so much more active when her numbers are not in ...I don't even want to say that color :lol: :lol: We had a nice slow movement down into blue last night. And I think she probably surfed it nicely. While her AMPS is not low this morning, I am happy with it compared to the last several cycles. In consultant with you more experienced LL'ers this morning, I did take her up a drop to a sk1u. Jill and I had discussed taking her up and probably to a unit but I've found Gracie is very responsive to changes and I'm hoping if I take her back up slowly, we won't get so much NDW (anti-jinx) so the ultimate goal may be 1u but I don't want to take her up too much, too fast.

Got to attend to my civvies right now, get ~O) ~O) , and be back to check condos. Thanks to Sienne, Roni, Laurie, Ronnie, and Miriam for answering my post this morning about the increase. Be back soon...hope your morning is going great.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

hey you, listen up :lol:

a few days ago (in Wednesday's Novel with tons o' good feedback from Jill)
Jill suggested this:

just a suggestion... i would try to get a few +1s here and there (even from a high ps number). those +1s will give you an idea if there's any food spike. this in turn will shed some light on how carb sensitive gracie really is.
Click to expand...

and it's a good idea, since it's been a while that we've seen a +1.
okey-dokey? Ok. :-D

Good luck with the skinny!
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

Morning Marjorie! :-D and get that +1. I think that data will help. I know it does with Mannie - really good indicator of "what's up". it is so nice to see Gracie start with a yellow number. YAY!!! Good luck with the dosecrease!

Gracie - what's up girl? Wanna do somethin' today? Spot is free... ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

Agreed on getting the +1s...that's exactly how I evaluate new foods for Tinkles. I only do that when he isn't bouncing though....the bounce affects the data.

BTW...I have found that not all foods that are the same carb % affect Tinkles the same way. I can feed Special Kitty Mixed Grill (4%) and get very little food spike. If I feed Wellness Turkey or Chicken (4%), he gets a BIG food spike that lasts for 6 hours or more. So, I suggest experimenting with different foods, not assuming that carb % is always the defining characteristic. Fancy Feast gives Tinkles the same spikes...I sometimes use FF LC as a MC food. EVO works well for him. I'm not suggesting that you use lower quality foods, just don't always consider the carb percentage as an independent variable....

Good luck with the dosecrease.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

Glad you did a skinny 1--Moonie does also respond to small changes-like that..See how her ps comes down with a little increase..
Have a great day--Will check back with you later- good job! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

Much better AMPS today. see they always wait until you are just about to give up before they come around. How does getting to sleep through the night feel? :razz:
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

Ditto on all of the above. I find it to be true what Laurie wrote on different types/brands of foods in the same % range.

Gracie: road trip today! We are off to Moonie's. It's 70 there and she has the beach and stuff. You in? ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

Ronnie: I'M SORRY...I so bad!!! I deserve this. :oops:


In my poor defense :lol: :lol: the last few cycles have been so high that I couldn't take an even higher number at +1 BUT I see the light :idea: that I will better know how she responds to each different food if I do the +1. Unfortunately, I missed it this morning because I was too busy socializing in LL. I PROMISE I'll start getting them. So..I don't know if this +2 is because of the Cowboy Cookout or if she's bouncing. Needless to say...not a number I'm happy about but the day is early.

Thanks Ann, Pat, Michelle, and Ele...yes I did sleep but only from 2:30 to 6:30 but that's ok. I feels GOOD today :lol: :lol:

Laurie and Roni: well, after reading everyone's input this morning I decided to go the middle road...not aggressive but not wait (sorry, Laurie) so I took Roni's advice and just added a drop. We'll see....she did really well on sk1u before.

Mannie...I'm in for the beach!!! Sounds terrific but mamabean said no bringy home sand this time
 

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Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241

mornin' y'all - I thought I remembered reading that you had the weekend shift.

was peeking at Gracie's SS - does look like sk1U was her last good dose. The whole "shave" thing is kinda tough for me. It is so difficult to feel like I'm being consistent. I've been practicing though with a used syringe and wax paper. anyway - Gracie did pretty good on the 1U too, so you're definitely moving her in the right direction.

good luck with your dosecrease.

I think kitty baby talk is precious, and I'm not kidding about that one bit.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 arrgghhh

OMG! that's a halloween pic right? :lol:
:roll:

lol, that'z a little extreme, but ok, lol!!

dont worry, I'll get you again for a +1 after PMPS :-D
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 arrgghhh

oww - I'm hoping that's a wax museum!

your new dose will take a cycle or two to increase her shed, not sure if that arrgghh is about the pink or the +2.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 arrgghhh

Ronnie...couldn't resist...gotta keep it light right?? I have it marked on my calendar in big red letters GET +1..NO EXCUSES! :lol: :lol: Truly...what would I do without you all and I know I best listen up...your goal is the same as mine and that's to get Gracie regulated and hopefully even better than that but I don't want to jinx it.

Kim...arrggh over the pink number at +2. BUT I am experimenting with foods and I am hoping this is just a big food spike. She ran in blue all night and had a great amps...she could be coming up to bounce...we'll see at +4. No more Cowboy Cookout today :lol: Oh..and I'm not the expert at kitty baby talk....Celi and Anne have it down! I am a poor imitation! But Mike's doing ok with it and that's probably what you are referring to (re: my late post on your condo last nite). Yes, I do have the weekend shift and I have been practicing ALOT on that sk1u. I know, for me, it is one drop less than 1u and that's what I aim for. She did really well on that dose but if I have to take her up to 1u, so be it.

Ok...back to condos!! Have a great day. I'll see you at PMPS and +1 Ronnie :lol: :lol: I'm holding you to it.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 arrgghhh

Marjorie, I know you want Gracie to get into good numbers and stay there...it's what we all want! I see your frustration with the high numbers, the bounces, etc, and I know how that feels...but I think you're chasing your tail a little bit, and I hate to see that happen. You're changing dose, changing food, changing the schedule and looking for immediate effects....

Slow down.

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

It takes time to see the effects of changes that you make. If you make multiple changes all at the same time, how do you know what effect each change is having? Make one change, then see what happens for a few days. Look more at the trends, not one cycle at a time....step back and look at the big picture.

No worries on not taking my dose advice! Gracie's your cat, you hold the syringe, it's your decision. :smile:
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 arrgghhh

I don't know how you guys do it. Gabby gets fed raw and Wellness. If she needs HC, it's the FF poultry Gravy Lovers. If I need to lower the carb value, it's mixes with LC and if I need to raise it, I mix LC with Karo. I would drive myself nuts with the % carb of the day.

And, I couldn't agree with Laurie more. You're not going to be able to force Gracie to do anything she doesn't want to do. You can try, but I suspect you'll be hearing your hair out.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 arrgghhh

Laurie...you know you are absolutely 100% right and I really appreciate you pointing that out to me. I know better...my vet always tells me "one thing at a time". Jill has told me "one thing at a time". The only change I've made to her feeding schedule is dropping the +9 per Jill's recommendations for Gracie. But you're right...I'm messing with food changes, too. So...I'm going to take your advice and step back...it is so hard to see the big picture when you're looking at pink but I am throwing too much at her. Thank you for your candor. I will focus at keeping her at this sk1u for several cycles...unless you all tell me differently. She liked it before. I'll get the +1s and I'll be steadier with her food and not make so many changes. Thank you...truly. I just lost the focus in looking at those pink numbers the last few cycles. Wrong way to do this.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322

moving this over here because i replied in yesterday's condo...

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Jill and I have been discussing a possible dose increase back to 1u from f.75u; she wanted to see what Gracie did and she ran in blue most of last night...her +11.5 is 220.
It's only been four cycles since last increase. Any advice on whether I should go ahead and take her up this morning OR let her run through a few extra cycles at the f.75u is appreciated. We've been changing her dose around alot lately so I wonder if it is better to let her get in a full 6-8 cycles at this dose for Lantus's consistency or to be more aggressive and get her dose up to 1u. I have to shoot in 20 mins!! (Sorry..overslept...up until 2:30).
Click to expand...

generally speaking, when a feeding plan is implemented the purpose is to flatten out the curve. this causes a chain reaction.

feed the curve to prevent low or fast/early drops -------> the curve becomes more shallow and usually higher -------> more insulin is required

this is a step-by-step process and it takes time to see the results. we can't just jump to the last step without stabilizing kitty first. kwim?
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322

Jill...got it...thank you. My total misunderstanding....I had it backwards...tho't we raise the dose and then manage the curve. :oops: :oops:
I will concentrate on staying at this dose until told otherwise and on getting the food worked out. I just got confused but that is my fault and no one elses....you did not tell me that, I just got it in my head wrong.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322

It's so easy to get caught up chasing the numbers, Marjorie! You're trying so hard to do your best for her, and you ask great questions, are learning so fast....that's all good! I'm glad you took my post in the way it was intended....to help you refocus. :-D

I would do what Jill is saying, focus on the feeding, try to get her curves more stable...then adjust the dose. Those good numbers will come.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 +4 222

Laurie

Thank you...I did take it that way...none of this is personal and I have thick skin...this is all about our cats and I know that's all you wanted to do
and I appreciate it more than you know. I need reality checks and I consider that you and Jill have done us all a BIG favor today.

Interesting to note: I gave her Cowboy Cookout at +1 and +2...it is 5% but look how it spiked her. I gave her a 2% at +3 and she is now coming back down...maybe this will all slow the drop. Will do a +5 to see.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 +4 222 +5 188

Interesting observation and I'm not exactly sure how to use the info:

I fed Gracie 2% last night at AMPS, +.5, and +1 so I wouldn't be battling a big food spike at +2. Then at +2, I gave her 5% Wellness but she still fell about 55; then I gave her Wellness 6% and she ran in blue all night. Today, I gave her Cowboy Cookout at 5% at +1 and +2 morning to see how she reacted and her BG rose quite a bit from AMPS to +2; I gave her 2% at +3 because I didn't know if the +2 was a food spike or she was bouncing and she dropped 100 between the +2 food spike and +4 BUT ended up being only 20 lower than her AMPS. I haven' t fed any more since +3; she's been coming down nice and slow but that huge increase probably kept her from coming down more into blue. On the other hand, she's not diving down. What I don't know is whether it's better to let them have a food spike at +2 so then she comes down slowly or whether I want a food that will not spike her up to +2 but will just control a drop between +1.5-+2 since that is when she seems to drop fast (seems like I would want the latter). I might have been better off to give her the Cowboy Cookout just at +1, had a food spike, but then a lower +2 and then let her drop. I hope I get this figured out..so confusing.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 +4 222 +5 188

Jill & Alex said:
moving this over here because i replied in yesterday's condo...
generally speaking, when a feeding plan is implemented the purpose is to flatten out the curve. this causes a chain reaction.
feed the curve to prevent low or fast/early drops -------> the curve becomes more shallow and usually higher -------> more insulin is required
this is a step-by-step process and it takes time to see the results. we can't just jump to the last step without stabilizing kitty first. kwim?
Click to expand...
I had to quote this. I truly think most of us want instant results. It simply will not work that way. I know it did not for Mannie. It took a good couple of months, maybe three, maybe more, it escapes me now. but the point is - it truly does time for this chain reaction to happen. I know ECID, but the progression/reaction outlined by Jill is how it worked for Mannie: fed the curve, over time the curve was flatter but higher, and with that up went the dose. The end result took a few months, but I now have, with a few exceptions, a kitty that can produce a curve that starts blue goes green, day in day out (with some notable exceptions). It is true that I have messed with foods, but only when I knew I had a kitty that was on a predictable curve, and I could see what happened - usually only one food at a time. anyways....: FWIW.

What a nice cycle for Gracie today :-D :-D - it truly is. btw: Mannie loves cowboy cookout. Grammie's Pot pie was a big hit with the others and him too. it's at 8%, but they all loved that one. it was a 15 minute face wash session afterward.

have a great day Marjorie - DH too - I really do believe that you guys are doing such a great job with her.

Gracie - on my way girl - we is going to the beach! Bring Tobey! ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 +4 222 +5 188 +6 132

Michelle...thanks so much!! I know you have told me this over and over and you are still so patient with me. Thank you. And yes...Mannie does have beautiful days and nights with very few but very quick bounces. NICE!!

Jill had an interesting thought that perhaps the +2 was when last night's cycle of insulin wore off and not a food spike. Guess I'll have to feed the Cowboy Cookout again to see if that was the culprit or not :lol: What she said would make sense because Gracie's +11.5 was 220 then she jumped quickly to 241 for her PMPS in 30 mins. Or it could have been a combination. WHO KNOWS?? :lol:
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS 241 +2 322 +4 222 +5 188 +6 132

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Jill had an interesting thought that perhaps the +2 was when last night's cycle of insulin wore off and not a food spike. Guess I'll have to feed the Cowboy Cookout again to see if that was the culprit or not :lol: What she said would make sense because Gracie's +11.5 was 220 then she jumped quickly to 241 for her PMPS in 30 mins. Or it could have been a combination. WHO KNOWS?? :lol:
Click to expand...
ha! you beat me to it. i was just about to post something along those lines. :mrgreen:

whenever we're trying to figure things out with our kitties we need to look at more than one cycle at a time. why? because one dose can effect up to the next three days. those of us who have studied spreadsheets for awhile will look at what led up to whatever is happening when trying to gain some insight to today's numbers. we also have to remember things like carryover and overlap. <------- please take the time to read and understand the info in those links. overlap and carryover are your best friends when using the Ls.

did gracie spike from eating cowboy cookout this morning or was the insulin from last night's shot simply petering out at that time? right now there's not enough data to know for sure. i've suggested marjorie add a column to her ss in order to track what foods she fed when. eventually, a pattern should emerge. however, it's also important to recognize when the foods are fed in the cycle. for example, feeding a food higher in carbs towards the end of the cycle will create more of an impact than feeding when the action of the insulin is at it's peak.


more suggested reading:
Overlap
Duration
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS241 +2 322 +4 222 +5 188 +6 132 +7 109

Marjorie and Gracie said:
WHO KNOWS?? :lol:
Click to expand...
I KNOW! And here's Mannie today with a lovely blue surf only to post a 275 @ +9. :shock: errrrr - one of his many +9 spikes. I fed it - will be interesting to see what his ps is: down due to the snack?, or would he have gone there anyways? interesting too what you write about the +2. could be. WHO KNOWS! :lol:

And I know on the rest. such a dance we are on. I am so happy to be part of this group - what all of them have done to help my guy. Couldn't have done it without them, and you.

shesshhh - just read jill's post. sounds like my ss might be evolving again... i do love stats.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS241 +2 322 +4 222 +5 188 +6 132 +7 109

however, it's also important to recognize when the foods are fed in the cycle. for example, feeding a food higher in carbs towards the end of the cycle will create more of an impact than feeding when the action of the insulin is at it's peak.
Click to expand...

Jill.....just to clarify...you mean more of an impact in bringing numbers UP when feeding higher in carbs towards the end of the cycle and less of an impact on numbers when feeding when the action of the insulin is at it's peak? Right? ...like we discussed on the +9 minimeals possibly causing Gracie's higher PSs?
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS241 +2 322 +4 222 +5 188 +6 132 +7 109

Marjorie and Gracie said:
however, it's also important to recognize when the foods are fed in the cycle. for example, feeding a food higher in carbs towards the end of the cycle will create more of an impact than feeding when the action of the insulin is at it's peak.
Click to expand...

Jill.....just to clarify...you mean more of an impact in bringing numbers UP when feeding higher in carbs towards the end of the cycle and less of an impact on numbers when feeding when the action of the insulin is at it's peak? Right? ...like we discussed on the +9 minimeals possibly causing Gracie's higher PSs?
Click to expand...
unless a kitty has a pancreas which is working at least part-time, you'll run the risk of the slowing down or stopping the action of the insulin when feeding towards the end of a cycle. feeding, whether it's low carb or lower carb foods towards the end of the cycle (under these circumstances) would be like applying the brakes. when you stop/slow down the action of the insulin, the numbers will rise.

those +9 feedings are great for kitties whose pancreases are showing up for work at least for part of the day, but counterproductive otherwise.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie AMPS241+2 322 +4 222 +5 188 +6 132 +7 109 +

Ok...so now I'm beginning to think it definitely was not the Cowboy Cookout but that she was overlapping; not used to seeing her continue to decrease this late anti jinx; I had to give her 1/4 tsp 1% snack after +8...she was starving.....will be interesting to see outcome...hope I didn't wreck it but she had to eat.
 
Re: 11/13GracieAMPS241 +4 222 +6 132 +7 109 +8 99 +9 124 +11

pretty green you snuck in there Gracie :mrgreen:

now listen up guys, I wont be around later, but I'm here to remind you of that +1 after PMPS
Come on now, make Jill's day ok? :lol:

have a great nite!
 
Re: 11/13GracieAMPS241 +4 222 +6 132 +7 109 +8 99 +9 124 +11

Not a bad run of numbers for Gracie today! Looks like you are really trying to get your head around all of this dance and I'm glad that you are open and willing to learn from the folks who have been around for a long time. Gracie is certainly in great hands!!!!
 
Re: 11/13GracieAMPS241 +4 222 +6 132 +7 109 +8 99 +9 124 +11

Ronnie & Luna said:
Come on now, make Jill's day ok? :lol:
Click to expand...
:lol:

don't you love how Ronnie can *always* come up with another excuse for a test? :lol:

But she's right, some +1s would be good.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie PMPS 225

Ronnie...ok...I know you have a life but I was SO looking forward to posting that +1 for you, Jill, and Libby...maybe one of you will see it :lol:

So I believe I've pretty much done a mini curve today except for +1 :oops: and I gave her a break at +10. I promise that in 45 mins (8:30 MST), I will get a +1. I'm so pleased with her day and her PMPS!!

Thanks, Deb...Mike and I are a team and we are both so committed to learning and doing all we can for Grace. We are just amazed at the number of experienced people giving their time to help us and others. We will always be so incredibly grateful for everything everyone does to help us and for what we learn. And I am so blessed that I am not in this alone here...Mike is in it as much as I am. He said today as he was flying and talking to his first officer (co pilot) about Gracie's BG levels, the guy's eyes just glazed over :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie PMPS 225

SO where is that +1!!! oh wait - it's not time yet. :lol: :lol:

too funny about Mike talking about Gracie's BG levels... I can see that glazed over look. i get it too when anyone asks about Mannie. funny- they rarely ask again. :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie PMPS 225 +1 261

I could just hear your little foot tapping Michelle!!! I had to supervise the +1 meal since my little chow hound, Tobey, was right there and he will just nose
right in....so I fed him, too, and I had to make sure they didn't swap plates altho he always eats Nature's Variety Instinct grain free (all are 3% carbs) so it wouldn't have mattered.

Darn if I'm STILL not having problems drawing insulin into the syringe from the pen. I think the pen is not under pressure like the cartridge because it doesn't behave
like the description on the instructions. Someone said the monoject syringes are much better about not drawing in bubbles. Gotta try them I guess...I always have one
little tiny bubble and I spend alot of time getting rid of it so she gets all her juice.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie PMPS 225 +1 261

TAP TAP TAP TAP !!! An I KNOW on the food thing - I have three, all different diets, and it is a battle to keep them out of each other fuds. ohmygod_smile

bummer on the pen - i wonder if it is just that pen? maybe? i had one last time that was a real pain in the butt - bubbles, bad draw, etc. wasted alot of product with that one. I cursed alot too. :? current one is good. what pain, huh.

I hope Gracie has a good night. Mannie just dropped to 113, still about 2 hours til nadir. I hope he levels out here - not ready for another night like last night... :roll:
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie PMPS 225 +1 261 +2 216

I hear you...same thing here...two renal cats, Gracie, and then there's Tobey :lol: :lol: :lol:

Interesting on the pen but it looks ok and it does not have any bubbles in it. I think it is 100% me.

Time for a quick nap for me....+3 meal for Gracie, quick nap, +4 test. Then we'll see whether I'll be up.
 
Re: 11/13 Gracie PMPS 225 +1 261 +2 216

Looks like a good night for Gracie. She could go anywhere from here, I hope you get to sleep.

I think I'm much too fuzzy lately to follow all the food discussions. i think several of us are rethinking our feeding plans. You've started us all thinking.

I use Monoject syringes. Occasionally I have a bubble problem. Usually just very tiny ones that I don't know if I could see without the magnifier. As I said yesterday push the insulin up to the top then flick to get rid of the bubble. If there is air space on top the insulin may just get more bubbles. Also sometimes I quickly pull down on the plunger to help dislocate a sticky bubble.

I don't know how much difference there is between the pens and the syringes. Do you think you are drawing bubbles in from the pen?
 
:lol: I dont have a life actually, I just have to share the puter with DBF :twisted:
except weekend mornings while he sleeps in, it's all mine!!! :lol:

hey good job on that +1, stick with it for a couple of cycles or so ok?
Jill will be so pleased! :lol:
 
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