11/11 Remi PMPS 104, +2 58, + 4 68

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phlika29

Member Since 2014
Hi everyone

Remi' seems to have got over his bout of sickness. He is still on 2mg of ondansteron twice a day and I plan on sticking to that for a while longer. Tonight's might start to add back in his potassium supplement, just a drop, and hope it doesn't make him sick as I think that was what caused it last time.

I am going to see how he goes today on the 0.75 dose but if he goes above 120 again I think I was just fatten it as I don't want to lose too much ground.

Here is yesterday's thread:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=128182&p=1321712#p1321712
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

That looks more like the Remi we got to know. :mrgreen: This dose is looking good so far.

Good luck with adding the potassium back into his diet.
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

Hi Wendy

Okay so now I am worried he will go too low :roll: . This is the one day neither me or my partner are home to monitor. I have just fed him and put a tiny bit of honey in the low carb food to prevent him from dropping much more. I hope that okay. My mum will swing by to check in on him and make sure his food is topped up at about +4 so in two hours. Then hopefully I will be back by +6.

I will leave food down down with just a quiet of honey in it?
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

Good plan to leave food with honey. You might want your mom to add a drop of honey too. Surf it Remi! Darn cats and their timing. :roll:
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

I know! I have bought a timed feeder but haven't even had a chance to look at it yet so daren't rely on that.

Will tell mum what to do

Many thanks
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

Sarah:

I took a look at your note in yesterday's condo. Whatever dose you pick, it is best if you don't hop between doses. That was more my point last night. If you dose hop without letting the dose and depot stabilize, you will most likely end up with wonky numbers. With Lantus, you always need to keep the way the depot works in mind. It is also important to remember that dosing is based on the nadir, not on the pre-shot numbers.

You mentioned using a ruler to help you with dosing. Many of us use digital calipers to make sure our dosing is consistent. Using calipers also allows you to measure a dose that's between the lines. You might want to take a look online to see if you can track down calipers that are no larger that 4 inches (which is the smallest I've come across).
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

Sienne

Yes I am still confused about what the uppermost number I want. Yesterday his nadirs were below 120 and so is that good enough? I went back to a straight 0.75 this morning so I guess I should stick with that now. He did drop low by +2 so as I couldn't monitor him today I ended up giving a fair bit of honey in the food, just to make sure he was okay. Trouble is he has gone a little high as I think I overshot it abit :-x

I order digital calipers weeks ago and they finally turned up at the end of last week, I will get them out tonight and see if I can work out what I am doing with them. Maths, measurements and accuracy don't come naturally to me :?
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

good morning!

I see that Remi has you on your toes today, but I'll go ahead and reply to your questions from earlier. They will probably become relevant again soon. And in the meantime, yep, I totally agree with carbing him up if you have to leave. I've had to do that many times.

phlika29 said:
I gave the 0.75 dose this morning before reading your post but although I know I need to be patient as Sienne said I really want to keep remi in the normal numbers and so am inclined the fatten the dose as you suggest.
Patience has its place in this sugar dance, but IMHO this isn't it. I'll explain what I mean:

On the way UP the dosing scale using the Tight Regulation Protocol, you do need to give the doses time to work before changing dose. I do think a lot of people hold doses much longer than necessary. The protocol's recommendations (3 days in most cases, 4-5 days when a cat first starts hitting blue and when they first start hitting green) already have most of the "what-ifs" built in - they are already accounting for New Dose Wonkiness and possible bouncing from blue/green. In most cases there is simply no need to wait longer than that. There are a few cats that need more time, but for most of us, holding a dose too long just allows for glucose toxicity to set in. So patience, sure, but not TOO much. LOL!

BUT - those are the steps to attain tight regulation. Once you HAVE tight regulation, then your goal is to keep it. Take all that you have learned about Remi, and do what you need to do to keep him in range. That's a lot easier than losing the regulation and trying to get it back. So I would absolutely tweak the dose if I saw my all-green cat start to trend upward and I wouldn't wait any particular number of cycles to do it. I would do it as soon as I thought it was an upward trend and I would tweak by whatever amount I thought would get the job done. Just know that if you tweak it up, most of the time you'll have to come back down again fairly quickly. Sometimes they were not quite ready for a reduction, but they might just need another day or two before they WILL be ready. You might be seeing that today, or it might just be that Remi is feeling better today.

My reasoning is that I can monitor remi quite a lot and he wasn't on the 1 unit for all that long before he went below fifty. When he went below fifty he hadn't eaten as he was unwell and so although I know he still earned his reduction I knew he might struggle with it.
I agree, and it's why I suggested an increase. Also, because Remi is in a fairly flat stage right now, the likelihood of him really plunging into danger is very small. Obviously you need to keep on top of the numbers, but you don't need to panic about them.

Having said all that this morning his AMPS 6.2 / 111 so that is in the normal range isn't it? Under the 120.
The ideal is to be pretty much all green. Occasional blips over 100 (up to 120-ish) can be overlooked, but we have seen significantly better results with cats that stay green versus those who spend a lot of time in blue. Once the cat is all green 24/7, we will start recommending reductions after a week of being in solid green. Many (probably most) cats get ahead of us and start insisting on reductions even sooner than that. Many all-green cats will start to really run down the dosing scale in a big hurry. You can almost SEE the pancreas healing taking place. They may or may not race all the way down to 0.0 units, but they almost always will land on a lower dose than the one they spent most of their diabetic days on. Just something for you to look forward to. ;-)

Questions?
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57, +4 113, + 6 121

I'm glad the larger dose of ondansetron is working. That is what worked for Max as well. He has had to be on it for months at a time when is pancreatitis acted up. If you see that Remi is eating normally and acting well for a week or so I advise you not to stop it all at once. I went from twice a day for several days without issues, to once a day for several days without issues. There were times that Max's appy decreased and I resumed the 2X a day. Like with the insulin, the second I feel he is having issues he gets the ondansetron as it is harder to reign in the nausea once in full strength. I hope Remi stays in good numbers while you are out.
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57, +4 113, + 6 121

Thankyou Libby that is very clear.

Basically I want to keep him in the green zone all of the time and so unless I see a green figure as my PMPS number tonight then I should go back to the fattened 0.75 and stay there until I see a drop below 50. Would you say I have interested that correctly. I do feel bad as that means I will have jumped about abit with his dose and that's not good for consistency.

One thing I am not very clear on is if I hadn't have given remi so much honey could he be surfing the greens now? I know that the honey and low carb food is only a temporary affect but if you keep giving it does it have a longer affect during that cycle. Ie did I arrest the drop and therefore prevent lower numbers later on or would it have just worked out of his system and the higher numbers at + 8 would always have been that?
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57, +4 113, + 6 121

tiffmaxee said:
I'm glad the larger dose of ondansetron is working. That is what worked for Max as well. He has had to be on it for months at a time when is pancreatitis acted up. If you see that Remi is eating normally and acting well for a week or so I advise you not to stop it all at once. I went from twice a day for several days without issues, to once a day for several days without issues. There were times that Max's appy decreased and I resumed the 2X a day. Like with the insulin, the second I feel he is having issues he gets the ondansetron as it is harder to reign in the nausea once in full strength. I hope Remi stays in good numbers while you are out.

Yes don't worry I don't plan on dropping his dose anytime soon. The most I would drop it to is 1mg twice a day. I am more than a little concerned about stating that supplement again but am hoping he increased ondansetron dose will help prevent Sundays issues.

Remi stayed just fine and gots two visits from my mum. I am always tell when she's been over to see him as he either has her lipstick on the top of his head or he smells of her perfume. :lol:
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57, +4 113, + 6 121

phlika29 said:
Thankyou Libby that is very clear.

Basically I want to keep him in the green zone all of the time and so unless I see a green figure as my PMPS number tonight then I should go back to the fattened 0.75 and stay there until I see a drop below 50. Would you say I have interested that correctly. I do feel bad as that means I will have jumped about abit with his dose and that's not good for consistency.

One thing I am not very clear on is if I hadn't have given remi so much honey could he be surfing the greens now? I know that the honey and low carb food is only a temporary affect but if you keep giving it does it have a longer affect during that cycle. Ie did I arrest the drop and therefore prevent lower numbers later on or would it have just worked out of his system and the higher numbers at + 8 would always have been that?
I wouldn't worry about changing doses. It's just a couple of drops. In the grand scheme of things, you're probably changing the dose by that much on a daily basis anyway, given the fact that syringes aren't perfect and neither is our vision. We'll see if the fattened dose does the job. If not, then we try something else. It's science, but also art.

He might have surfed the greens without the honey, but you did what you had to do. He also might have come back up without the honey, but if you're leaving the house you can't always trust that. If the numbers come back down before PMPS, that's great. If not, well, you can fix that. :smile:

For what it's worth, I never used honey/syrup for Lucy. High carb wet food did it, and once she got down to lower doses then sometimes low carb was enough. That's something you have to get a feel for with your own cat by trying different things when you're home to test. Jazzy had acromegaly so I did panic once or twice and pull out the karo (she responded very slowly to carbs, a 5.5 ounce can of high carb didn't do much for her). Holy cow, did that ever work! It sent her much higher than necessary. I vowed never to use it again unless it was an actual emergency. I think I might have one other time, and I think I did once with KK with similar results. Same thing, due to his digestive issues it took a LOT of food to bring him up and it was slow, so I went for the quick fix and regretted it. Still, you have to put their safety first and you have to be able to leave the house with confidence.
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57, +4 113, + 6 121

I guess I decided on the honey as remi has IBD and pancreatitis and I am not 100% sure of the triggers so I tend to avoid introducing too many changes. Chou have no idea how stressed I was introducing wet food to remi ! The possible bad reaction to the potassium supplement hasn't helped either :lol: so I figured honey with his normal food would be better all round. I guess I just need to figure out how much to give him. Today I think he ended up with about 8 drops over about two hours and he hadn't even gone below 50 :shock: :shock: :roll:

I need to be better at recording how much the honey or low carb food affects remi's levels. Someone told me once in an early thread how much. It had made him come up but that was before I knew how to book mark threads. I will try to record these things better. As I said before I am not so good as the maths I sort of prefer to go with my gut instinct. Not always a good thing!

I am amAzed you handle three diabetic cats with ease. They really must keep you busy :o they are very lucky kitties.
 
Re: 11/11 Remi PMPS 104

Okay so his PMPS IS 104 so I guess as it isn't green I will give 0.75 fat.
 
Re: 11/11 Remi AMPS 111, +1 88, +2 57

Hi Libby,

Saoirse is in lower numbers but trending up a little after a dose reduction. I found your advice on this thread extremely helpful.

Libby and Lucy said:
The ideal is to be pretty much all green. Occasional blips over 100 (up to 120-ish) can be overlooked, but we have seen significantly better results with cats that stay green versus those who spend a lot of time in blue. Once the cat is all green 24/7, we will start recommending reductions after a week of being in solid green. Many (probably most) cats get ahead of us and start insisting on reductions even sooner than that. Many all-green cats will start to really run down the dosing scale in a big hurry. You can almost SEE the pancreas healing taking place. They may or may not race all the way down to 0.0 units, but they almost always will land on a lower dose than the one they spent most of their diabetic days on. Just something for you to look forward to. ;-)

I'd be very grateful if you could post the ideal number to keep under for an Alphatrak meter. I'm a little unsure about what number to add to the human meter reference point.
 
Re: 11/11 Remi PMPS 104

the grains in gravy do bother some cats with IBD, or even cats without IBD. Some do better with honey - just depends on the cat. Go with what works for Remi.

edited to add:

was it this post where Sienne was helping you with the honey amounts?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127899&p=1318739#p1318739

to find it, i looked at his ss for the first run of under 50 numbers, on 11/4, then i looked at your posts (click on your name and view user's posts) and scrolled back til I found the 11/4 post. If it's not this one, you may be able to find the post that you're thinking of.
 
Re: 11/11 Remi PMPS 104

julie & punkin (ga) said:
the grains in gravy do bother some cats with IBD, or even cats without IBD. Some do better with honey - just depends on the cat. Go with what works for Remi.

edited to add:

was it this post where Sienne was helping you with the honey amounts?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127899&p=1318739#p1318739

to find it, i looked at his ss for the first run of under 50 numbers, on 11/4, then i looked at your posts (click on your name and view user's posts) and scrolled back til I found the 11/4 post. If it's not this one, you may be able to find the post that you're thinking of.

Thanks Julie

You have all been so helpful to me over the last few weeks and to scroll back through my posts is more than duty calls. It is not really something I have had a chance to do but going back over old threads is really useful. Thank you I think it was this thread I was talking about. I am going to spend some time tomorrow cross referencing the honey I gave and the amount it increased blood glucose.

His PMPS 104
+2 58
 
Re: 11/11 Remi PMPS 104, +2 58

hmmm, it kind of seems as though Remi is telling us he is done with that fat dose after all. Let's see if he can surf here rather than dropping any more. Surf, Remi, surf!
 
Re: 11/11 Remi PMPS 104, +2 58

Yes I hope so too. After the reading he had a nice bowl of his usual low carb food and I even added a tiny bit of the potassium supplement. I am used to him having quite flat curves so this blue dropping into the green is all abit new to me. Will take another reading in 40 minutes and then we shall see what's up.
 
Sarah, glad to see he's holding steady. I think next time you got a 58, especially this early in the cycle, i'd retest in 30 minutes or so to see if he was headed below 50.

You're welcome. One of the things more experienced members can do is simply help new people find posts. There's a ton of information on this forum and if you know where/how to look for it, it's usually easy to find. If you're new it can be difficult enough that you don't want to put forth the effort. It took me all of a couple of minutes to find the post. :-D
 
Thanks Julie. I always feed after +2 so it's still worth getting a test twenty minutes later ? I guess it is to see how the food is affecting the drop.
 
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