11/10 Sissy. Shooting question

Mandy S

Mandy S

Member Since 2020
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/11-9-sissy-pmps-237-wont-eat.238335/#post-2676580

Last night she got a half dose an hour and 20 minutes late. She woke me howling for food this morning. I checked her and she's 173. I gave her a freeze dried treat and she's settled a little.
Since I shot half dose and late, do I still only back her up by 15 min at a time to get back on schedule or can I back up a little faster?

She only ate a few bites of her food that was out overnight.
 
I would think even with the reduced dose, you should still follow the moving shot time by no more than 30 minutes every 24 hours. So you can move this mornings shot up 30 minutes - shoot tonight 12 hours from your morning shot. Move up another 30 tomorrow morning and shoot tomorrow night 12 hours from the morning. Then on Thursday morning you could be back to your previous shot time.

Let's say your normal shot time is 8:30 AM and you delayed by an hour 30 (just for easy math :)).

11/09 PM Shot time: 10 PM
11/10 AM Shot time: 9:30 AM
11/10 PM Shot time: 9:30 PM
11/11 AM Shot time: 9:00 AM
11/11 PM Shot time: 9:00 PM
11/12 AM Shot time: 8:30 AM
11/12 PM Shot time: 8:30 PM

You can also shift by 15 minutes a shot:

11/09 PM Shot time: 10 PM
11/10 AM Shot time: 9:45 AM
11/10 PM Shot time: 9:30 PM
11/11 AM Shot time: 9:15 AM
11/11 PM Shot time: 9:00 PM
11/12 AM Shot time: 8:45 AM
11/12 PM Shot time: 8:30 PM

Hope that helps :bighug:
 
Well....she took a couple licks of baby food...left and now she's back eating more of it.

Waiting on a call back from the vet. Over the phone they said not to shoot at all if she won't eat. But she had eaten a little more...but knowing Sissy it will be a battle for the rest of the day.

She ate maybe a tablespoon or just slightly more than that.
 
Just got back from the vet. Last week I had made an appt with our old vet that we are moving back to since we're moving back closer there. But since she perked up and was doing good I cancelled it. I couldn't get in there today on short notice because she is not established. :/ So I took her to the old vet...the lady expert who I have posted about several times. She said her numbers are good enough to go off insulin for a few weeks and see what she does. She wants me to keep her on the cerenia and mirtazpine and then she said she needs to be weaned off the Mirtazapine. She checked her potassium levels from her last blood work in may and said they were perfectly normal, didn't want to recheck. Said we can do an ultrasound whenever I schedule it. Sissy has gained weight from 12 something pounds to just over 15 again. She's a chunk. Said I might be right that she's having some reflux from pressure on organs if that thing is pushing on it...she said if the cerenia is too expensive (I had asked if there was anything cheaper that would do the same thing) then I could try this over the counter medicine Famotadine. Said it's not the same thing as Cerenia, but might help, if not go back to the Cerenia.
I over all felt like it was a wasted trip. Now she has access to my spreadsheet again because I couldn't print it, I was out of ink so we looked it up there. I stopped at petco on the way home and grabbed some "forbidden" foods for Sissy to top her food with until I can figure out what to do with her. I gave her a cerenia when I got home and about to give her the Mirtazapine. She did eat a couple bites of the food that was out when we got here. I gave her just .25 of insulin this morning because I didn't want to just skip again if she was eating some...and at her +2 she was 75. I'm going to pop open some of the stuff I got at petco and see what happens.

Her numbers are not good enough to go off insulin. URGHo_O
 
Mandy, I’m sorry you had such a unsatisfactory vet visit and I agree that it was. I would schedule an ultrasound. If my cat, based upon personal experience, I would want it done by a board certified radiologist if at all possible. I do think the mass may be the cause of the inappetence and waiting to start treatment can only make things worse.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Mandy, I’m sorry you had such a unsatisfactory vet visit and I agree that it was. I would schedule an ultrasound. If my cat, based upon personal experience, I would want it done by a board certified radiologist if at all possible. I do think the mass may be the cause of the inappetence and waiting to start treatment can only make things worse.
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It was highly unsatisfactory. I've been somewhat upset and emotional all day. I'm just tired I think, but oh man, I feel so frustrated. I forgot to tell you that I asked about the board certification when I had them send me the estimate on the ultrasound...this was their response.

"Thank you so much for your question. At the moment, none of the veterinarians at the clinic are board certified in radiology. However, they are proficient and have years of experience with both ultrasound and radiography. Additionally after obtaining the images, either x-ray or ultrasound, we have the ability to send out the images for a consult with a board certified radiologist. Lastly, if you were specifically wanting the ultrasound to be with a board certified radiologist we could refer you to a specialty clinic, such as Med Vet, for an ultrasound there. Please let us know if you have any other questions I can answer for you."

Med Vet is the Emergency Vet that I've paid a small fortune to over the years. I could have bought a nice new car for what I've given them. They are really, really expensive...just like any ER vet. But, I will ask for an estimate from them tomorrow, just to make sure. I would rather have the best if I can swing it. The estimate from the vet was low end $270 (without sedation) and high end 340 (with sedation). She said that they would try it without first and see if she would cooperate. Then sedate if needed. So it wasn't as expensive as I thought it would be.

Tonight Sissy is being pretty picky. She has eaten some baby food. She will eat that one food with the tuna in it. I should have picked up more of it. It's one of the Tiki Cat After Dark flavors, but she eats it really well. I might run back to petco tonight and grab a couple more flavors just in case. If I offer her ANY of the food she's been eating she walks away from it. So she is eating the baby food and the ones she's not had before, but not in big amounts. And not consistently.

I'd love your opinion on her shot tonight. What do you think I should do? A reduced dose again? Skip? I still can't believe the vet wants me to take her off insulin for a few weeks. What do you think about that? Her numbers have been good, but just look where she was right before we had the last dose increase...well any of it should tell the tale. I'm so annoyed.

I just put the +5 numbers in a little bit ago. We are about an hour and 40 minutes off our schedule so instead of shooting at 9am this morning we shot at 10:40. Which is okay, I can walk it back, just makes for later nights for a bit.
 
The specialty clinic will be more expensive for the ultrasound. I think I recently paid $350 for one but Mocha didn’t need sedation. If they are really experienced just it might be fine. My vet told me a long time ago when I had a cd with an ultrasound done the week before that the radiologist needs to do the ultrasound and would not just look at the one I just had done so I had to pay twice. For me it was worth it because Max never needed surgery like the traveling vet had recommended.

As for tonight I would see how high the pmps is and if you think she will eat should she go low. Wendy felt a full dose would be fine and that’s what TR would say. I’m a chicken about shooting a full dose if I think a cat won’t eat, especially when it’s someone else’s cat and I’m not there.

I think it’s crazy of the vet to say no insulin for two weeks. They seem to do that with cats that might be sick because they fear a hypo and don’t think the CG will be able to handle it. Not the case for us here!

So see where she is at PMPS and let’s get more opinions.
 
tiffmaxee said:
The specialty clinic will be more expensive for the ultrasound. I think I recently paid $350 for one but Mocha didn’t need sedation. If they are really experienced just it might be fine. My vet told me a long time ago when I had a cd with an ultrasound done the week before that the radiologist needs to do the ultrasound and would not just look at the one I just had done so I had to pay twice. For me it was worth it because Max never needed surgery like the traveling vet had recommended.

As for tonight I would see how high the pmps is and if you think she will eat should she go low. Wendy felt a full dose would be fine and that’s what TR would say. I’m a chicken about shooting a full dose if I think a cat won’t eat, especially when it’s someone else’s cat and I’m not there.

I think it’s crazy of the vet to say no insulin for two weeks. They seem to do that with cats that might be sick because they fear a hypo and don’t think the CG will be able to handle it. Not the case for us here!

So see where she is at PMPS and let’s get more opinions.
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I am chicken about shooting not knowing if she will eat too. I'm getting more brave about shooting, but this is new territory for me. I do know that at all possible I would like to shoot something...but I have no idea if she will eat. My husband did run over to cvs a few minutes ago for a syringe and they didn't have any that they showed on their website. So he asked the pharmacist and they just gave him a few. I might have to cut the tip off a bit, but the will work in a pinch. I do know that force feeding will stress her out a lot. It was rough on our cancer boy and Sissy's personality is way different than his was. He was SUPER laid back and gentle and would tolerate just about anything...and she is not. lol So I know I'd like that to be last resort. Based on how she's doing tonight, I don't see her eating enough to shoot a full dose.

I was surprised this morning that she had that big drop from amps to +2...even with her short dose last night AND a trip to the vet in between.
 
The depot has been helping the numbers to now - it can influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction. Be interesting to see that PMPS.

How much total food did she end up eating last night and today, compared to normal. I was OK with Neko and full dose as long as between her and me we got 2/3 of her food in her. I also sometimes resorted to higher %carb LC to give her a bit of boost.

If you do syringe food, don't giver her regular food. They can develop aversion to that food. ECID. Had a foster kitty completely go off chicken. :rolleyes: Didn't bother Neko though. Sometimes getting a few squirts in settled her tummy and she'd eat on her own after that.
 
@tiffmaxee & @Wendy&Neko, She is 180 for PMPS.

And right now she is eating some of the new food I got at petco. We'll see how much she gets down.

Okay, I'm editing again real fast...she didn't eat but a few bites then went away.
On a normal day, she would eat a bit, I'd shoot her and she'd be back and finish the bowl. I doubt she will be back to eat much more if any. I offered her food before I picked up bowls 2 hours ago and she maybe at a tablespoon or two...that might be a little generous. I should have started measuring. I will from here forward.
 
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Cerenia and Mirtazapine were given today when I got home from the vet...right after her +2.

Sissy came back, ate a couple bites and stoped..walked away, then came back. I don't know why she's only eating a few bites at a time. She just did it again, laid down groomed a second then acted like she smelled it and got up and is eating a few more bites. She actually has eaten a good amount compared to what she has been eating...but it still only amounts to maybe a quarter of a 3 oz can.

This is what she does off and on. Most of the time she will not eat more.
I don't mind syringe feeding her. I do think it will be highly stressful for her though and as she is pretty high strung, and she will fight.
 
See if she will eat baby food. If not you need to syringe feed some food. How many days has this been going on? I worry about not enough food causing fatty liver.
 
tiffmaxee said:
See if she will eat baby food. If not you need to syringe feed some food. How many days has this been going on? I worry about not enough food causing fatty liver.
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She will eat baby food, we have chicken and Turkey and she will lap up some and walk way..
As I type this, she's back at her bowl eating more...so she's going to eat a full quarter of a can, maybe slightly more because I added a little shreds from another can on the side. She's now finished that off and is on the back of the couch grooming herself.

Off and on last week she wouldn't eat much...but not all the time, just part of the time. Yesterday morning I thought we were back on track because she ate A LOT of food the first half of the day...then yesterday afternoon she started tapering off and didn't eat much the rest of the evening and did not touch her food over night after I went to bed after her PM+4..and then today she's been eating a few bites at at time all day. So it's not been too long this time...last week it was off and on...she did it for a few days in a row until she ate yesterday. I know that's all confusing.

I tested her ketones day before yesterday...and it was fine.
 
Sounds like she’s eating enough to shoot. Also sounds to me like she starts to feel better and eats too much at one time and feels yucky. That’s what my vet says happens with pancreatitis and why you never let them eat a lot at one time.
 
Right now we are almost 2 hours past her normal shot time...I honestly don't know if I can stay up as long as I will need to test her. I've stayed up with her the last couple nights to make sure she's okay and this is going to push it even later. Ugh...I try to sleep in between but sometimes I shut the alarm off and go to sleep if I'm too tired. Now I'm considering not shooting and starting at her regular time in the morning.

@tiffmaxee, you posted as I was typing the above...I think she did eat enough to shoot now. But that's going to put her +2 at 1am. I want to shoot her... I do, it's just really late now. I'm really considering another short dose or not shooting just because I don't know if I'm safe to monitor her if needed.
 
What about shooting .25 again? Then if necessary syringe feed at +2 if she won’t eat. Go to sleep and set an alarm to check her at +5 and if the +2 isn’t rising give some hc at +2.
 
Yeah, I can do the .25. I feel like that won't take her too low.
I need to start walking back her time though. I might do the half hour plan tomorrow. Got to get turned around. lol
 
I hope you can get some sleep. You need to stay healthy and this is draining I know. If you weren’t so tired I would shoot more. You will be no good to anybody if you are so tired you can’t function.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I hope you can get some sleep. You need to stay healthy and this is draining I know.
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Thank you for helping me. I so appreciate it. I feel kind of bad not shooting a bigger shot, but I'm just really tired. I'm going to call and schedule that ultrasound in the morning. Most of the time I think that mass might be the problem. I think it has gotten bigger because I didn't see it before and now I think her one side does bulge just a tiny bit more. My husband mentioned it tonight when we were watching her walk through the room.

I remembered something else the vet said that I wanted to tell you. I said something about her having a good chance at remission, since she hadn't had it long...the discussion came around her numbers. She said I know they say that, but how do they really know how long it's been since they were diagnosed. And made some sarcastic remarks about it. I said, well in Sissy's case her bloodwork was fine and then 2 months later it wasn't...so SISSY has a good chance. I really need to get this ultrasound done there and not go back.
 
I knew exactly when Max became diabetic as well because he had so many labs taken. I hope there’s nothing serious wrong.
 
Just came to check this and saw that I had typed it and not hit enter. So here it is. I'm moving to today's new thread 11/11.



tiffmaxee said:
I knew exactly when Max became diabetic as well because he had so many labs taken. I hope there’s nothing serious wrong.
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Me too!

Her +3 is on the rise so I'm going to bed amd will check on her in several hours.

Assuming she eats in the morning enough to shoot...do I do the 1.25 dose? Or do I need to bring her back up more gradually?
I'll check back before AMPS.

Thanks again everyone! :bighug:
 
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