11/05 Shmee

[Amanda & Shmee]

Previous condo

Hi everyone,
Nothing really new here. Just tried to pet Shmee before bed and he attacked me. I have breakdowns about him often. I miss him so much and I just feel so terrible for him. I’m finally going to try the Alpozolam tomorrow and see if it sedates him so we can go into the vet soon. Dr. McCue agrees doing a TLI test for EPI and panel for B12 is good. His water intake has gone up, so the desmopressin pill isn’t working really anymore. He said I can try 4 pills a day instead of 2 but ultimately we might have to go back to shots or eye drops. Which I can’t see at all so I hope that won’t be the case. We will begin two pills as soon as they come in the mail (hopefully asap as he’s almost out). I’ve asked multiple times how many other cats he’s performed this surgery on has needed desmopressin long term and he doesn’t answer. I think Shmee might be the only one. He said we might need an ultrasound of he pancreas too. I know I have said I don’t know if this has been worth it, and I’m still not convinced it has been. Yes he won’t have the long term problems of Acros but I’ve created other problems and he is a completely different cat. His old personality is gone. I hope SO BAD this is not the case forever. I hate that I gave him these problems. He doesn’t like me anymore. We were inseparable before all this. He hardly looks at me except to feed him since he’s so hungry. He has begun to lay with Steve every once in a while, I’m glad he finds some kind of love. He’s still terrified of blankets... thinking it could be a towel since the vet puts a towel over his head. Attacks you if you try to put a blanket on him. He used to love them and was a freeze baby like me. Dreading the next vet visit. I called my vet today to ask about Trazodone (Dr. McCues suggestion) instead of the Alpozolam, I wanted to see if that could be an alternative since the Alpozolam is supposed to make him ravenously hungry, and he’s already starving. But no call back... so I will probably just suck it up and try the A tomorrow, I might call again in the morning to see if I can get an answer on the Trazodone.

Vines to all in need of them, I hope you all are doing well. @Ana & Frosty (GA) hugs and I hope you are coping ok

 

[Amanda & Shmee]

@Wendy&Neko or anyone else - I keep forgetting to bring this up. I’m now up to three people that have told me their cats have had pancreatitis and their vets put them on antibiotics and they got better. Are all three of them just wrong? From the beginning it’s been hard to understand how nothing can be done other than pain and anti nausea meds. So when three different people have said their vets put them on antibiotics I’m confused. I know you all say there are flares and there’s nothing you can do except manage the pain, both my vets have said the same thing. Is this just another case of other vets not being informed?

 

[Beth 73]

Amanda , please know much love and many prayers are being sent to you and Shmee. Breaks my heart as I read your post ...sending prayers and much hope that soon you will see improvement in dear Shmee and he will return to his loving self .

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hi Amanda.

Have you done any BG testing in the last couple of weeks? Just wondering if that's a reason he's so hungry and drinking more.

I didn't have long term p'titis to deal with, so can only go by what I've seen here. I think I heard that some percentage of p'titis might be caused by infection, so for those, and AB would help. Or maybe their kitty just got over it during the time the AB was taken anyway. We've got one kitty here on pred for p'titis. Seems there isn't a consistent treatment other than pain management, fluids, and nausea meds if needed.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

I know that in humans, some antibiotics have a secondary anti-inflammatory effect. Not as much as a dedicated anti-inflammatory, but maybe it's something like that, just enough to jump-start the healing. I don't know which antibiotics might have that property, but it might be worth asking the vet about. Maybe it would help him feel better in general, too?

I'm so sorry Shmee still isn't feeling himself, that just sounds heartbreaking. I hope his recovery keeps progressing-- you are doing all you can from your end, but a lot may still just be time. It is so hard, though.

 

[Bellasmom]

My heart breaks for you, sending prayers and healing vines

 

[carfurby (GA)]

Sending prayers.

 

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

In humans we don’t use abx for pancreatitis because there is no infection to treat, and any increase in wbc is reactive. Also in humans, giving abx can make pancreatitis worse because they can stimulate the pancreas. We use the fluid and pain medication approach. Less is more.

Thank you for checking on me. I am OK I guess. I rly miss him so much check out my post in the off topic forum about my dilemma about some feral kittens that were caught by my neighbors.

I know you’re frustrated Amanda but you gotta stay calm for Shmee. I can sense your stress and tension through the screen, so I know he can sense it too since you guys are very close. The more relaxed and normal you feel, the more relaxed and normal he will feel. I promise. Have you tried yoga or meditation at all? You can look up videos online. What about talking to someone who can help with anxiety and stress management? I hope you don’t mind me saying that. I have been following u guys for a while and I am worried about u

Feel free to PM me if u wanna talk.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Amanda, wish I had a working magic wand for you. Shmee had been through a lot of changes. I've been following of course and I don't know if I could handle it as well as you are.

Smokey was given metronidazole when he had p'titis (1st time I ever had to deal with it) and suspect IBD for possible bacterial overgrowth. It is an antibiotic but also some anti inflammatory properties. Once he was finished with the metro Smokey was kept on maintenance doses of cerenia and bupre for life. His flares were often and chronic without treatment before I got him. It worked better for him to have the meds to prevent a severe episode. It's a long story (history) with him, but he was much better on them than off them.

 

[Jill & Jade]

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

I've been following your story all along and I feel for you. Just hang in there. We are always here if you need to vent about anything.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

 

[sbluhrs]

I just saw this. I am so sorry that you and Shmee are going through such troubles.

I feel very fortunate that Sophie is doing so well. Yeah, she is still on Levemir, but a very small dose - .1 twice a day most day, though she gets the odd day when she needs no shot, and she is still on the Desmo - .5 unit twice a day. I am lucky that she is still great with her testing and getting shots. Her appetite is fine, and her sweet personality still is there. If anything, she is even sweeter. Doesn't purr for me yet, but never did, though she purrs for Ivy. She isn't a lap kitty, but definitely likes to be in the same room as me most of the day while I work, unless she decides to sleep on one of the beds or the couch.

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

Massive I know it must be heart breaking. As Ana stated you can feel the tension and frustration. I wish we could make him his old self. Hang in there momma bean. I think patience is key. Calmness and clarity. You are doing everything you can for Shmee. Have faith he will come around.

 

[Joanne&TinySole]

Our hearts are with you and Shmee. You are doing the best you can and it is a difficult situation right now. Please be patient and loving and kind with yourself, as you are with Shmee.

 

[sbluhrs]

Definitely, Amanda, what Joanne said - be kind to yourself. This is a really frustrating situation. I was expecting results to happen a lot faster, too, and I now see it will take months to really see where Sophie will be.

They both had freakin' BRAIN surgery. Even with a head injury where there is no actual physical cutting of the brain tissue, it can take months to recover. I had a severe concussion back in 1984 and I literally could not concentrate enough to read comfortably for at least 4 months, and didn't feel like myself for 6 months. So, I am not surprised that our kitties are having to deal with an extended period of recovery, also. The sucky thing with any issue with the brain is that you might look healthy, but your brain is not 100%, and that is the same for our kitties.

 

[Amanda & Shmee]

Hi Amanda.

Have you done any BG testing in the last couple of weeks? Just wondering if that's a reason he's so hungry and drinking more.

I didn't have long term p'titis to deal with, so can only go by what I've seen here. I think I heard that some percentage of p'titis might be caused by infection, so for those, and AB would help. Or maybe their kitty just got over it during the time the AB was taken anyway. We've got one kitty here on pred for p'titis. Seems there isn't a consistent treatment other than pain management, fluids, and nausea meds if needed.

Yes I have I need to update his SS badly - he was 61 so his sugar seems ok so far.

In humans we don’t use abx for pancreatitis because there is no infection to treat, and any increase in wbc is reactive. Also in humans, giving abx can make pancreatitis worse because they can stimulate the pancreas. We use the fluid and pain medication approach. Less is more.

Thank you for checking on me. I am OK I guess. I rly miss him so much check out my post in the off topic forum about my dilemma about some feral kittens that were caught by my neighbors.

I know you’re frustrated Amanda but you gotta stay calm for Shmee. I can sense your stress and tension through the screen, so I know he can sense it too since you guys are very close. The more relaxed and normal you feel, the more relaxed and normal he will feel. I promise. Have you tried yoga or meditation at all? You can look up videos online. What about talking to someone who can help with anxiety and stress management? I hope you don’t mind me saying that. I have been following u guys for a while and I am worried about u

Feel free to PM me if u wanna talk.

Hugs to you, I can’t imagine.
No I don’t mind you asking, I appreciate it. I started seeing a therapist about a month in a half ago. I like her a lot and she suggested meditation as well. I have done it a few times and liked it. I have to get in the habit of doing it more. I’m mainly just sad. It’s hard to just pretend when everything is so different. We were inseparable. He slept with me and was my little spoon for ten years. He used to be so happy. I keep trying to tell myself to give him time. I’m trying. She also wants me to exercise more so I’ve been trying little by little. I have a treadmill so I walk every now and again. I tried yoga once, I should try it again. I have two jobs and work all the time which is stressing me out too... no time for anything. I need better time management skills... lol. I need to work on myself better. Thank you for checking in. Oh yeah - I’m going to Disney at the end of the month to brush up on my Animal Kingdom and Epcot knowledge (perks of being a travel agent although I’m broke LOL) so that will be a nice getaway.

@sbluhrs Im glad Sophie is doing so well If mich rather have Shmee on a tiny bit of insulin doing that well. I hope she comes around and nixes that bit soon!

Everyone else - it’s been tremendously helpful to read all your thoughts and hugs throughout this process. I go back through my condos when I’m sad to read your support. I can’t thank you enough.

 

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

I started seeing a therapist about a month in a half ago. I like her a lot and she suggested meditation as well. I have done it a few times and liked it. I have to get in the habit of doing it more.

I am proud of you for doing that. I understand that you are sad. I know it's hard. Just try to stay as calm as you can around Shmee so he can sense that there isn't anything horrible going on. He just had BRAIN surgery. He needs time to recover from it. We are aways here to reassure you, but as an outsider looking in, it does sound like he IS doing well and he IS improving. I know he is not the same right now. It sucks. But I think tradeoff for more happy and healthy years ahead are worth it.

Many hugs, talk to you soon.

 

[JeffJ]

Hi Amanda

Shmee was on a bad path with the Acro. And you pretty much had to do something. We are not the lucky ones in one way - our cats have issues. But in another way, we are lucky to have these special kittehs. Sometimes the rewards are small for the big effort it takes, but I'll take those rewards any day.

Leo changed a little after the SRT as well. Not as much as Shmee. But now Leo pretty much lives in the kitchen and sometimes the living room. I think the brain surgery that Shmee had, seems to be having some bad effects. But I also think cats want to be healthy, and it may just take some time for Shmee to get used to these new feelings that he has.

I hope you are having a pretty good weekend. This week we had 86 degrees on Tuesday, and tomorrow it will freeze here. LD and Leo like the cooler weather.

LD has urine crystals, so we are dealing with those and he is on a close watch, and a diet change. I tried to take a nap with him on Thursday for 20 minutes, but he was purring loud the whole time. What a darned lovebug he is. Leo got some major naptime with Mom tonight.

 

[Amanda & Shmee]

I am proud of you for doing that. I understand that you are sad. I know it's hard. Just try to stay as calm as you can around Shmee so he can sense that there isn't anything horrible going on. He just had BRAIN surgery. He needs time to recover from it. We are aways here to reassure you, but as an outsider looking in, it does sound like he IS doing well and he IS improving. I know he is not the same right now. It sucks. But I think tradeoff for more happy and healthy years ahead are worth it.

Many hugs, talk to you soon.

Thank you and I appreciate you trying to make me feel better but if it were normal I think Dr. McCue would say so. He’s also concerned. He wants an ultrasound of his pancreas and said the blood tests are a good first start. I caused this. The hospital stay was too stressful on him and I should’ve known that. People commented on how this surgery changes cats personalities and I should’ve considered that more. I know him inside and out and he is a very sensitive spoiled cat that’s never stayed out of the house for more than one night (in the hospital many years ago) and was extremely attached to me. He was terrified every second in the NYC hospital and that caused him to get or worsen the pancreatitis. I should’ve known better. I hate myself for making him so peterified staying in that hospital for almost a week and giving him brain surgery. I think he wasn’t the right cat for it. ECID and he was not one that could handle the stress. I hope I’m wrong down the line. We shall see..

Hi Amanda

Shmee was on a bad path with the Acro. And you pretty much had to do something. We are not the lucky ones in one way - our cats have issues. But in another way, we are lucky to have these special kittehs. Sometimes the rewards are small for the big effort it takes, but I'll take those rewards any day.

Leo changed a little after the SRT as well. Not as much as Shmee. But now Leo pretty much lives in the kitchen and sometimes the living room. I think the brain surgery that Shmee had, seems to be having some bad effects. But I also think cats want to be healthy, and it may just take some time for Shmee to get used to these new feelings that he has.

I hope you are having a pretty good weekend. This week we had 86 degrees on Tuesday, and tomorrow it will freeze here. LD and Leo like the cooler weather.

LD has urine crystals, so we are dealing with those and he is on a close watch, and a diet change. I tried to take a nap with him on Thursday for 20 minutes, but he was purring loud the whole time. What a darned lovebug he is. Leo got some major naptime with Mom tonight.
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I hope you’re right and it’s keeping me sane to think I tried to do the best thing.... but I also keep thinking it was a selfish decision. I didn’t take into account his personality. The cat he was. He was too sensitive for a week long stay in a strange hospital and brain surgery. He was so petrified that he developed pancreatitis. I caused it, along with the personality changes from the surgery. I really hope I am wrong down the line.
Love the photo of Leo and mama bean. So sweet. Shmee has crystals years ago and ended up having surgery I hope LD continues to heal and gets better soon.

 

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

He’s also concerned. He wants an ultrasound of his pancreas and said the blood tests are a good first start.

Wait, I’m confused. Why is he concerned about pancreatitis? If Shmee still had pancreatitis, he wouldn’t be eating and would be throwing up. I know he had a possible pancreatitis flare-up right after the hospitalization, but you said that since then he has been very hungry. Increased appetite is NOT a sign of pancreatitis. Quite the opposite. If anything, it’s a side effect of prednisolone or possibly too much corticosteroids.

I also think that most cats are extremely anxious when they are away from home in a strange place, so I don’t think that’s specific to Shmee.

As for the regret and blaming yourself for possibly harming Shmee, I think that all treatments have risks. If you had done nothing and he developed cardiomyopathy, problems walking and pain in joints, and other serious side effects of Acromegaly, you would also probably feel responsible. I understand that you think you may have made a mistake, but perhaps you can discuss with your therapist how you can move on to accept that what’s done is done, so that you can move on from here and focus on his recovery and his future.

I understand the regret part with everything I went through with Frosty. But at the end of the day, after many days of agonizing about the different scenarios that coulda or shoulda been, I know I did the best I could. And most importantly, no amount of guilt or anxiety on my end will bring Frosty back.
I knew I had to try to let go of those thoughts and just allow myself to grieve my loss.

If we had a crystal ball and knew how one or another treatment would turn out, surely we could make better decisions. But unfortunately we can’t always control the outcome of things. We can only love our kitties and make the best decisions for them with the information we have. There is no way to predict how your cat will behave from what other people say on the internet. I think I’ve said before - take everything you read online with a grain of salt. Most of us aren’t vets and we aren’t only speaking from OUR OWN experience with ONE cat. And that is extremely biased information that may not even apply your cat .

I hope you can find a way to accept what is happening and realize that you did the best you could, even if you think it was not the right thing. I think that would help leave that part behind so you can focus on the future.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

If you had done nothing and he developed cardiomyopathy, problems walking and pain in joints, and other serious side effects of Acromegaly, you would also probably feel responsible.

So true Ana. To that list, add kidney disease and GI disease, and soft tissue growth in her mouth. Neko had all that in spite of having SRT and having her dose go down to hardly anything for a while, meaning the excess growth hormone slowed considerably. Acromegaly sucks. The surgery option was not available when Neko was diagnosed. I knew she freaked out at car rides and had a 3 day one each way to get the treatment I did get. Regrets? Not really, what was the option? Neko lived over 4 years after her SRT, it would have been a much shorter time without treatment. Most of the 4 years were good ones. SRT, though not as good as the surgery might be in eliminating the tumour, was worth it.

You took a leap of faith in having the surgery done. You describe improvements each time you post. Yes it will take some time to recover, but Shmee will.

I am glad you are talking to someone and starting exercise. Exercise is what helped to keep me sane as it's a great way to work out stress and clear the mind.

 

[Becky & Baby Girl GA]

Amanda...let me try to put this into perspective for you. Baby hated me for a long time after her eyes removed. I felt such guilt because she had iritis that if treated properly- could have been stopped. I took her to 4 vets before knowing it had already progressed into glaucoma. She showed no symptoms whatsoever until it was too late.
Trust- will you ever forgive me & trust me again? Maybe took a year for her to begin to act like 3/4 of her old self. Keep in mind that this was 2 surgeries close to 6 months apart. Where did my old Baby go? Each year became better... then diabetes. Another reason to not trust me. After a year, she still cries & runs when I get everything ready for test & shot. Then IBD & steroids when she just went into a short remission. I have to tell you, she wouldn’t sleep with me in the beginning... now she is again the majority of the time.
When she tries to bite me, I used to walk away, upset. Now I talk to her calmly & tell her I know & not react. Even try to give a rub to her chin or neck just to let her know it’s ok, I’ll be here & love you no matter what. (Sometimes that doesn’t work, she bites again or growls) “whatever! “ I feel your pain & if this is all trust related, time is the answer. You have nothing to feel bad for! You did what we all would do to help our babes! Try hard not to let it break your heart... I understand because my heart hurts too.

 

[sbluhrs]

Dear sweet Amanda, I totally understand how you can be feeling guilty about how Shmee is acting now. It is so hard to see changes and place the blame on ourselves. I did that for months trying to get Sophie regulated, thinking - Oh, I'm feeding her too much, I'm not giving her shots properly, I've spoiled the insulin. But, in the end, it wasn't my fault - it was the acromegaly.

I hope that if there is something else going on with Shmee, you and your local vet will be able to figure it out. Cats really are pretty resilient creatures - that is what has allowed them to survive the millenia. And, like everyone has reiterated - he just had freakin' brain surgery. It is going to take a while. Sophie's eyes still are somewhat dilated, but much improved from immediately post surgery. She is still on a small amount of desmo and a pittance of Lev. The hair on her hind leg and her front leg where they shaved still has to grow in. She still isn't as active as I'd hoped she would be at this point, but, then, it has been rainy and grey, so even my other kitty is snoozing a lot.

I want it all fixed and all better now, but that isn't going to happen. I'm just lucky that she seemed to bond with the staff over at AMC and actually seemed to enjoy her stay, so no emotional fallout.

Give our little guys another 6 months. Look back then. Seriously, it might take another year. They went through some pretty intense brain surgery and they will each heal at their own pace.

Hugs, sweetheart. We all know you are doing your best. And, yes, take care of yourself, too. Self care is so important for a caregiver. Exercise really is important as it will make you feel better both mentally and physically.

 

[Becky & Baby Girl GA]

 

[Beth 73]

More ... praying and believing that with each day your Shmee is returning to you .

 

[Beck and Philly]

@Wendy&Neko or anyone else - I keep forgetting to bring this up. I’m now up to three people that have told me their cats have had pancreatitis and their vets put them on antibiotics and they got better. Are all three of them just wrong? From the beginning it’s been hard to understand how nothing can be done other than pain and anti nausea meds. So when three different people have said their vets put them on antibiotics I’m confused. I know you all say there are flares and there’s nothing you can do except manage the pain, both my vets have said the same thing. Is this just another case of other vets not being informed?

Oh my gosh. I haven't been coming to this forum for awhile so I'm just seeing this. Hugs!!! I'm sorry things are so stressful!

When Grandpa had flares of pancreatitis, my vet gave him a Convenia shot. It really seemed to help. Once when she wasn't available, the vet office gave me some pushback when I asked for a shot. They ended up contacting my favorite and she approved it. Before long Grandpa was eating and feeling better. It made a believer out of at least one tech.

 

[LizzieInTexas]

Thinking of you guys. Tons of hugs

My favorite vet would put Gizmo on AB for pancreatitis (in the beginning). She explained that it also had anti-inflammatory properties. Clavamox was what Gizmo was given. Now, with chronic I just try and manage with nausea meds, pain meds and CBD. We have also given 3 Convenia shots this year because of suspected kidney infection. We have tried oral AB's but only manage to get 4-5 days in before vomiting and diarrhea starts.