10/9 Oldtimer update - Kitty - input?

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Kathy and Kitty

Kathy and Kitty

Member Since 2009
This coming week will mark Kitty's 6-month OTJ annifursary. cat_pet_icon

We are hugging our kitties extra-tight this weekend. And maybe I'm staring at him a little too closely -- that's not just for newbie mamabeans. But I thought I'd ask for some input on whether I should worry about him or not. (Well, I'm going to worry, but should I take myself seriously?)

Kitty had his vet visit last month. No urinalysis, but the bloodwork (labs linked below) (https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...Vlc2RlNwbGpodUdxWnpsQjIwbXc&hl=en&output=html) are pretty good. HCT was high, at 47.6 on a range of 30-45, and eosiniphils high, 1.79 on a scale of .10-.79. HGB and MCV are high normal. I got some great feedback after that visit (http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24560).

Kitty doesn't seem to have the symptoms of things like IBD. Sienne recommended I keep an eye out for blood in urine -- nope. I haven't added the fish oil, because he didn't like what I added to his food, and I haven't figured a way around that yet.

Here's what concerns me:

1. Changes in eating: He is eating MORE. He used to eat 2 cans of FF (classic chicken), now some days he eats 3. He will eat food without chicken dust during the night, but during the day, he repeatedly begs me to sprinkle more on the food before he'll eat. That's relatively new.

2. Seems to pee a little more. But his numbers have been great! Most recent tests (not yet on SS) have been 76 and 83 last week.

3. I think he is a little wobbly on his legs, weak. He stumbles on the steps I have built everywhere for him. He walks slowly.

WCR isn’t bad, exactly. Five p’s in order. He plays some. He just doesn’t seem strong.

So am I staring at him too closely? Or should I look for something? BTW, we really don’t know how old he is. When we took him in, the vet guessed he might be around 5, so he would be almost 12 now. But who knows?
 
Hi Kathy! Congrats on the 6 month OTJ annifursary! Glad to hear that Kitty's numbers continue to be good!

Sorry I can't offer any advice. I'll check back in though, because I'm interested in what the wise ones have to say.

I agree with you on giving all the catties some extra loving today.
 
I guess you notice these things about Kitty. Glad his numbers are still good...congratulations on being OTJ for 6 months! that's GREAT!
My two had elevated eosinphils and the vet said I should put Advantage on them, which I did. There were no signs of fleas and yet they can have a reaction even if they were only bitten once. Eosinphils are a concern but like a catch-all, ya know?
I mean, if it elevated due to allergies, where would one begin with a kitty, right? Raja seems to have stopped biting her belly after the Advantage. I understand that many people use the Revolution which prevents many things such as ear mites and heart worm, etc. I am going to try that next month for both of them. The elevated eosinophils can also point to parasites...so I got some meds for that. Panacur for 3 days for both of them...and my vet gave me cestex I think it was for tapeworm. Just in case they had anything like that. Their lab work is attached to my signature. Will have a recheck in a couple of weeks I guess.

I guess an xray is the only definitive way to confirm the arthritis.
And my two love the FD chicken too. They must have it at every meal though. Sigh. Sometimes i wish I had never started with that stuff! :lol: Do you add water to Kitty's food? Does he drink for the water bowl? My two don't ever actually drink water. I guess they are getting enough from what I mix in the food. I am wondering how his weight is...if his appetite increased, then is he gaining weight? That extra weight might be giving his legs problems...
I hope you get some answers from someone...meanwhile, congratulations on that beautiful OTJ!! :mrgreen:
 
Happy 6 months OTJ. Is he on anything for arthritis? I don't know that they have anymore luck with animals then with people as far as arthritis is concerned. I have used a few supplements with my 31 year old horse. MSM seems to help. Please keep us posted. Kathy, try and stop worrying.
 
could he be peeing more just because he is eating more and therefore getting more water? Or is it a lot more? UTI could cause that, as could renal disease, but his kidney values looked good last month so it's probably not that. I'm not a vet, of course. Has he had an x-ray for his arthritis? Maybe there is something else that could help him there. I don't know anything about that yet, though I think it's time for me to start looking into that for Jazzy.

Congrats on 6 months OTJ!
 
Hi Kathy and Kitty - congrats on 6 months OTJ!!! Hope Kitty's "issues" turn out to be nothing much... As for arthritis, Brownie and Simpkin started getting a bit stiff around that age (but they're both 19 now). I have been using heated pet beds for both of them and that has been the biggest help. They are also on cosequin and aspirin. The pet beds can be purchased from PETCO - Brownie uses the K and H Manufacturing Thermo Kitty Mat and it runs about $40.00 - worth every penny. We have 2 and have used them for 3 years now (24 hours/day). They plug in but use very litte power - they stay a few degrees above ambient temp and warm up only under where kitty lays. Simpkin likes the simple Cozy Cushion bed that uses thermo-reflective material (it doesn't plug in). Outside on the screened-in porch, we used the Lectro-Soft Heated Outdoor beds for $55. They have fleece covers and are safe for outdoor use. They love to lay on them on chilly days - you'd think they'd rather be inside, but I think they just enjoy the fresh air and warm bed... Hope this info helps Kitty. Let me know if you need more info...
 
Dropping in and saw that Kitty is now six months OTJ, how wonderful is that!!!! Congratulations you two!!!
 
I was wondering about a touch of arthritis, too. The fish oil should be helping with that, but maybe some cosequin or dasequin would help, and I like the sound of the warming beds. I may look for one of those for KB this winter.

Congrats on the OTJ anniversary, too.
 
Congrats on Kitty's OTJ annifursary!!

You? Worry? Nah!!!!!

The labs sound a lot like the ones you had run previously. I am wondering if the eosinophils are elevated due to the arthritis. I had just happened to be reading on Dr. Lisa's site and she had commented that for cats transitioning to canned food, their urine output increases due to the moisture in canned food. If Kitty is eating more, then urine output would increase, like Libby suggested. I would question why you're feeding so much more if you are trying to get some weight off to ease up the joint/arthritis issues.

I know you tried Dasequin. Have you tried Cosequin for the arthritis?
 
Happy 6 months annifursary Kitty.
Isn't it crazy that 6 months have gone by already.
I hope ll is well with Kitty, I know we all worry so much.
 
No advice, but congratulations on the 6 months..and best of luck for solving the other problems...

celi & binks
 
Thank you, everyone, for the congrats and the advice. I'll bet Kitty's "issues" are part age and part bean-staring-too-closely.

Increased urine is about 1/3 more. Some is probably related to food. I've probably been adding a little extra water to the food, because I was worried about him.

Pat, I want your vet. I would love to give Kitty some meds for parasites, but it wasn't offered. I'll ask.

Patricia... thank you so much for that bed information. He LOVES to be on the screened porch, even in winter, and I don't want him to be cold at night indoors, either.

Sienne, those ARE the labs I reported last month. I apologize. I just wasn't done worrying about them. And I'm feeding more because he's hungry. :roll: He's usually not a food beggar at all. But maybe there's nothing more mysterious than that. It's just he is not gaining weight, and I would expect him to.

BTW, he IS getting the Cosequin. He threw up and refused the Dasuquin. I haven't started the fish oil, but I will start Monday. (Can't watch him every second tomorrow @-) , and this is necessary when making a change. )

Thanks for being patient with me. Before he went OTJ, at least I knew what to worry about. Now he's OTJ, but I guess I'm not OTW. ohmygod_smile :lol:
 
Kathy, your Kitty looks so much like our Bear... and after reading your profile I can see that you were in a similar situation!! I wish you the best of luck with Kitty, I hope this is just a little hiccup!
 
Hi Kathy: I am sorry if I mislead you on what really went on. The fact is, my vet said nothing about the elevated eosinpohils!! I cross-posted in Health and Jess/Earl was kind enough to answer my post. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25952&p=261754&hilit=eosinophils#p261272

My vet and the vet techs looked at me as if I was totally off my rocker when I brought Raja in for blood work and a complete check up. Her OTJ numbers had been just great but the 9 month anniversary day, I checked her and she was in the yellows all day! UGH!! they said "Well, 200s aren't so bad"!!!

When the results came back, I went back there to ask for what Jess had recommended and they gave the meds to me....with very weird looks in their faces, as if I should not be worried about those super high numbers. (Raja's were very very elevated as noted in my signature link) I thought I would just try to eliminate the parasite question...if that was the reason for the elevated values.
That being done, if her next blood test still shows the elevation, we will have to go to Plan B. (whatever that might be!)
 
Kitty wants to thank everyone who congratulated him on 6 months without shots! He also said, "Tell mom to feed more FD chicken." :lol:

Pat, I read that thread. Kitty doesn't go any further outside than the screened porch, but we did have one instance of a stray who came to the porch long enough to produce some face-to-face hissy fits. Kitty might also eat a bug that could get onto the porch. Those would be the only chances for parasites or fleas, unless I dragged something in on a pants leg. (We have major bunny rabbit action in our front lawn.)

Raja's EOS reading is a lot higher than Kitty's. And I had to wonder: How come your reference range is different from ours? You said;

Absolute Eosinophil 10962 (ref range 0 - 1500 /ul) Eosinophil 54 (2 - 12%)
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Our labs give a range of .10 - .79. If I read correctly, though, his EOS is 18.3, not as high as Raja's.

I think I read about things and imagine small changes to be morphing into bad things. It's so hard to know when I'm being responsive, and when I'm being a crazy, neurotic, hovering bean. After all, I missed the diabetes signs, and allowed four months of bad treatment, so I question myself. :roll:

But Kitty is healthy enough to reject a plate of food with fish oil in it. ohmygod_smile That's my Kitty!





I
 
Kathy and Kitty said:
And I'm feeding more because he's hungry. :roll: He's usually not a food beggar at all. But maybe there's nothing more mysterious than that. It's just he is not gaining weight, and I would expect him to.
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Do you have an earlier thyroid test to compare against? Also, has he been checked for worms? (sorry, Kitty!)
 
WCF and Meowzi said:
Kathy and Kitty said:
And I'm feeding more because he's hungry. :roll: He's usually not a food beggar at all. But maybe there's nothing more mysterious than that. It's just he is not gaining weight, and I would expect him to.
Click to expand...
Do you have an earlier thyroid test to compare against? Also, has he been checked for worms? (sorry, Kitty!)
Click to expand...
from the symptoms you've mentioned, hyperthyroidism is my first thought.
here's a quick overview: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2130&aid=218
a more detailed article: http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/Pages/Feline_Hyperthyroidism_Web.pdf

happy 6 months OTJ!!! :mrgreen:
 
Choy-Foong, Jill... Thanks.

I have to admit, parasites concerned me, but I don't know how he would get them. He doesn't go out, except onto the screened in porch. I don't give him Advantage, because it makes him lethargic the whole day he gets it.

Kitty's T4 this time was 2.3, with 1-5 being normal. Thanks for asking for a previous T4, Choy-Foong -- I do have one, to my surprise: June 2009, 1.6. An increase isn't great, probably, but it's not a huge increase.

The vet said 2.3 was good, and he did a good manual exam of organs in front of me. But of the symptoms listed in that reference Choy-Foong provided, he has several: weight loss, increased food consumption; vomiting several times these last several weeks (mostly but not all hairballs); increased urination. He seems a little weaker to me. No hyperactivity or diarrhea.

I don't want to LOOK for illness. DH thinks he's just getting older. But the weight and weakness, the increased eating and peeing -- maybe they're not hugely different, but they're different enough to catch my attention. Do I watch it? Weigh him every week and compare that? Take him back soon for a T3? Test for worms? Take a mama-bean chill pill?
 
i'm going to email cassandra and ask her to pop in here... unless you have her email addy. she's the hyper-t expert i go to with my questions. :mrgreen:
as i recall, one can expect the test results to drop a little with age, but don't hold me to that. when there was some question on alex's lab work, i had the run them free T4(ED) in addition to the T4 test.

here's an interpretive comment from the lab:

FT4(ED) should ALWAYS be interpreted with a total T4 concentration when evaluating a cat for hyperthyroidism. Approximately 5-10% of euthyroid cats w/nonthyroidal illness will have elevated FT4(ED). An elevated FT4ED with a total T4 greater than 2.5ug/dL is supportive of hyperthyroidism. An elevated FT4ED with a total less then 2.5ug/dL is most consistent with nonthyroidal illness.

alex had three T4s run in close to a year. the T4 results were 2.1, 1.1, and 2.2.
 
Thanks, Jill. Alex is NOT hyper-T, right? What made you suspect it and run those tests?

I don't have Cassandra's email, so if you can ask her to drop by when she can, that would be great.

Poor Kitty. He does not want another get-in-the-carrier day. I wish I could find a really good hospital closer by.
 
no, alex is not hyper-t (at this point anyway). she was exhibiting symptoms though. since a kitty can test in the normal range on a T4 test and still be hyper-t, we went ahead and had the Free T4(ED) done.

i sent an email to cassandra...

ps- how was kitty's potassium on the last blood work? cassandra told me to keep an eye on alex's potassium level. we've since been supplementing her with potassium gluconate tablets (RenaKare, started with 1/2 tab bid). because of the excessive peeing, some vets will use the supplement when kitty's potassium falls below 4.4 in the blood.
 
Kitty's potassium (K in the attached labs, right?) is 4.2. In July 2009, it was 4.1.

The vet mentioned that Kitty was slightly dehydrated. He made nothing of it... but that's not good, huh? I don't know how he judged that.

The thought of pilling Kitty is unattractive. I tried that ONCE. He may look laid back, but he knows what he doesn't like!

(He was also unenthusiastic about the fish oil. He ate a plate with one drop in it. When I got to four drops, it was no go.)
 
you could ask your vet if a potassium supplement would be beneficial for kitty. i would not give it on my own without talking to my vet for fear of giving too much. i just crush the tab and mix it in alex's food. she hasn't noticed at all. :-D

adding as much water to kitty's food as he will tolerate may help with dehydration if he's only slightly dehydrated (start slow, gradually add more). obviously, your vet didn't think it was a big enough issue to recommend administering squids.


edited to add: about the fish oil... you could go back to the level he'll tolerate or start over if you have to. the process of building up the dose may just take longer than what you would like.
 
Thank you so much, Jill.

Yes, I am adding as much water to the food as Kitty will allow. (I know this, because occassionally he rejects the plate as too watery, then eats up when I replace it.)

I think I read that a "pinch" test indicates hydration problems. Kitty's skin has been gently pinched, and it snaps back.
 
Hi Kathy!!! :-D :smile: :smile:

2.3 is dead center in normal range of a great number for a working thyroid. If Alex or Jackson's tests come back with that kind of number i KNOW meds are working and they are working they way they're supposed to. high normal is 4.0 but if you're looking at a blood test, you know that. There is no cause for alarm about Kitty's T4 as far as I can tell. The thyroid tends to fluctuate on blood tests even within normal range and if you took blood tomorrow results would more than likely be different..but normal.

A&J always demand chicken dust at meal time(they won't even finish a bowl of food unless I sprinkle it on again after the original dust id gone) but don't care about it on their snacks. I'd ask them why but they wouldn't have an answer for me I'm sure. :lol:

I agree with the touch of arthritis. First of all, you don't really know how old Kitty is and secondly, he is built like my Jackson and has carried a few extra pounds for a lot of his life. That makes him a perfect candidate. I'd try cosequin for cats.

drinking a lot of water could mean a lot of different things usually thyroid, diabetes, kidneys, bladder or maybe just because he's eating more. MY question is have you had a free t4 done? That can show a thyroid problem where a t4 doesn't.

in any case, I know that Kitty is and will be fine...and so will you. so get that warming pad and cosequin and perhaps have that test run. Another person on the board who knows an awful lot about thyroid is Jennifer...Tuckersmom. That's who I go to for advice. She has had like 4 or 5 hyper-t kitties and has been a HUGE help to me.


xoxoME :mrgreen:

sorry about typos. i have a scratched cornea and am typing without being able to see....wtg fo ride to go to doctor
 
sorry about typos. i have a scratched cornea and am typing without being able to see....wtg fo ride to go to doctor
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YIKES! I hope Alex and Jackson are picking up the slack while you're down. Alex, please make dinner (and don't eat it all). Jackson, clean the litter! :lol:

Thanks for the encouragement, Caryl. Kitty gets Cosequin. He rejected Dasuquin -- threw up. Also has rejected fish oil -- walked away. grumpy_cat He has symptoms. I just don't know of what! Possible Dx: He is a Cat.

I've ordered a very nice heated bed (thanks, Patricia & Brownie). I am going to weigh him, and keep a record of how much he eats, and how much he produces. Time to stop guessing and start measuring!
 
I seriously don't think it's much of anything other than Kitty is a cat who isn't a 'kid' anymore. Things change. It's always wise to check and double check but did you ever think he'd be eating chicken? Mine are too and I'm shocked. Kitty is doing great! I'd really say , as Jill said, get the free t4 (which is funny cause there's nothing free about it) :lol:

give Kitty a big kiss for me!
 
Caryl and Alex said:
I seriously don't think it's much of anything other than Kitty is a cat who isn't a 'kid' anymore.
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Surely you are not suggesting that anyone in this house is AGING?!?!??! This is an aging-free zone. I eat cake once a year, but I do not actually AGE. My age hasn't changed in years! :lol:
 
Hi Kathy!!!!!
And Big Congrats & Happy 6 MOS OTJ ANNIFURSARY! to KITTY!!!! :RAHCAT

It's so hard to believe our babies have made it 6 mos. OTJ. Doesn't seem that long ago we were here late nights rooting each other on. I know it's crazy, but I kinda miss your worrying! :razz:
I'ts good you're keeping an eye on Kitty, ...or 1000 eyes as it may be ;-) Wouldn't be easier if they could just TELL us what's going on. They try in so many ways, but ultimately it's a guessing game. Do you think inside they are just laughing at us thinking...'chill OUT, I'm just middle-aged and having a nap!"...or ' are you kidding chicken?..we had chicken yesterday..I'm not TOUCHING it, today I'm digging my heels/paws in until she figures out I want the BEEF'. " well, OK MAYbe..if she puts some FDCC sprinkles on it, THEN I'll have a nibble or 2'.

Tell Kitty 'HI' from Hank.


ooo's,
betty
 
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