? 10/7 Zephie AMPS >500 +1 >500 +2 453 +3 364 +4 345 +5 304 +6 351 How to handle dives/bouncing?

Stacey - Zephie's Mom

Stacey - Zephie's Mom

Member
Hello,
Yesterday's post: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-6-24-zephie-need-input-on-his-s.294683/

Thank you, @Diane Tyler's Mom GA for help in how to post properly. Please let me know if I'm still doing it wrong with this post. I am trying to digest everything as quickly as possible and appreciate all the help. And thank you and @Bandit's Mom for the assurance that I'm not being a failure or bad mom to Zephie. I was reading that most cats get regulated in a few days to a few weeks, and as we're about 1.5 wks into this and nowhere close to regulated, I don't see it happening soon.

So yesterday when he had the extended low at the end of his cycle (+8 to PMPS) and the Libre was scaring the crap out of me saying he was 40-60 for hours on end (AlphaTrak had BGs in that time of 98-151). I'm so new to all of this that I wasn't sure if I could fully trust the AT or not. I knew the Libre could be inaccurate at the low end, but the disparity was crazy! Which made me crazy.... and poor Zephie was the victim of massive pincushioning of his ears as I was testing often to make sure he wasn't going hypo.

I had a few follow-up questions from yesterday and what @Bandit's Mom posted in reply.

Mostly, I am trying to figure out how to handle these massive dives Zephie does and then the big drastic bounce back into the 400's-500 range. @Bandit's Mom said when I asked about the extended lows yesterday-
"Yes, numbers can keep dropping without food. When you see that happening, you want to offer him some food to slow the drops. Bounce breaking cycles can also have later nadirs. Some cats nadir at the end of the cycle when breaking a bounce."
Questions:

1. I'm not sure what a bounce breaking cycle means? I thought a bounce meant going back up? But can "bounce" also refer to the what I think of a rapid dive down?

2. So even though he free feeds, if I see a big dive happening at +3 or +4 I should give him more food if I don't think he's eating on his own? I can certainly do that as I can syringe feed him if he doesn't eat on his own (he's a very cooperative fella) but just wasn't sure how I was to handle it. I worried that if I manipulated his food by giving him some when he didn't initiate it that I would be messing up how to regulate him in the long run because then I'd be looking at cycles where I've manipulated when/how much he eats vs. what he will do when I can't be home to monitor him this closely and intervene if necessary.

Thank you!!
 
Stacey - Zephie's Mom said:
@Diane Tyler's Mom GA I just realized I forgot to add today's date to the post... and I can't seem to be able to edit the post title -- only content. Is there a way to fix that? Apologies for not being able to sort this out properly!
Click to expand...

Hi Stacey,

You can edit the titel if you go to the button "Thread tools" on the right, directly over the post. It's a lot to digest in the beginning. Don't worry about asking questions! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Stacey - Zephie's Mom said:
Hello,
Yesterday's post: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-6-24-zephie-need-input-on-his-s.294683/

Thank you, @Diane Tyler's Mom GA for help in how to post properly. Please let me know if I'm still doing it wrong with this post. I am trying to digest everything as quickly as possible and appreciate all the help. And thank you and @Bandit's Mom for the assurance that I'm not being a failure or bad mom to Zephie. I was reading that most cats get regulated in a few days to a few weeks, and as we're about 1.5 wks into this and nowhere close to regulated, I don't see it happening soon.

So yesterday when he had the extended low at the end of his cycle (+8 to PMPS) and the Libre was scaring the crap out of me saying he was 40-60 for hours on end (AlphaTrak had BGs in that time of 98-151). I'm so new to all of this that I wasn't sure if I could fully trust the AT or not. I knew the Libre could be inaccurate at the low end, but the disparity was crazy! Which made me crazy.... and poor Zephie was the victim of massive pincushioning of his ears as I was testing often to make sure he wasn't going hypo.

I had a few follow-up questions from yesterday and what @Bandit's Mom posted in reply.

Mostly, I am trying to figure out how to handle these massive dives Zephie does and then the big drastic bounce back into the 400's-500 range. @Bandit's Mom said when I asked about the extended lows yesterday-
"Yes, numbers can keep dropping without food. When you see that happening, you want to offer him some food to slow the drops. Bounce breaking cycles can also have later nadirs. Some cats nadir at the end of the cycle when breaking a bounce."
Questions:

1. I'm not sure what a bounce breaking cycle means? I thought a bounce meant going back up? But can "bounce" also refer to the what I think of a rapid dive down?

2. So even though he free feeds, if I see a big dive happening at +3 or +4 I should give him more food if I don't think he's eating on his own? I can certainly do that as I can syringe feed him if he doesn't eat on his own (he's a very cooperative fella) but just wasn't sure how I was to handle it. I worried that if I manipulated his food by giving him some when he didn't initiate it that I would be messing up how to regulate him in the long run because then I'd be looking at cycles where I've manipulated when/how much he eats vs. what he will do when I can't be home to monitor him this closely and intervene if necessary.

Thank you!!
Click to expand...
@Bandit's Mom
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
Stacey - Zephie's Mom said:
1. I'm not sure what a bounce breaking cycle means? I thought a bounce meant going back up? But can "bounce" also refer to the what I think of a rapid dive down?
Click to expand...
Bouncing are the higher numbers you see after lower numbers.

"Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". Usually, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles)."

In Zephie's case, the higher numbers on the night of 10/5 was him bouncing from the lower numbers he saw earlier in the day. In bounce cycles numbers can stay flat and high. Yesterday (10/6) he decided to clear the bounce and in bounce clearing cycles, you can see additional downward momentum and later nadirs. So the rapid dive down you saw was him clearing the bounce. Did that clarify? Feel free to ask more questions.


Stacey - Zephie's Mom said:
2. So even though he free feeds, if I see a big dive happening at +3 or +4 I should give him more food if I don't think he's eating on his own? I can certainly do that as I can syringe feed him if he doesn't eat on his own (he's a very cooperative fella) but just wasn't sure how I was to handle it. I worried that if I manipulated his food by giving him some when he didn't initiate it that I would be messing up how to regulate him in the long run because then I'd be looking at cycles where I've manipulated when/how much he eats vs. what he will do when I can't be home to monitor him this closely and intervene if necessary.
Click to expand...
Will he be okay with timed meals rather than being free fed? That way you can ensure he gets food when his numbers demand it. The other issue is that feeding after the nadir can reduce duration (the period for which insulin acts) and cause numbers to go up. And if I'm not mistaken, he is on a higher carb diet due to food sensitivity issues?

Using Food to Manipulate the Curve
 
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