10/4 Klinger AMPS 381; +12 115; +12.5 160; +12.75 193

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Marcy & Klinger (GA)

Marcy & Klinger (GA)

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Klinger AMPS 381; +12 115; +12.5 160; +12.75 193

It's now 12.75 and if I shoot at 6:45 p.m. I won't be able to shoot at that time tomorrow a.m. I would have to shoot an hour earlier. Yikes.
Thoughts...
 
Yikes. I don't want to advise because you've been working with Nancy & Cody can you PM or call her?

If not I would shoot a much reduced dose so you don't lose your momentum but not enough to have to stay up all night testing.

Keep us updated.
 
i don't know where i've been but WHOO_HOO!!!!
i would shoot reduced dose.
gonna head over to your ss.
 
marcy pzi is not as sensitive to exact timing...even an hour off is ok.
looking at your ss he was definetly on his way up so a smaller dose would have been my choice.
 
we call it a BCD- "big chicken dose". :lol:

When you are nervous about shooting a low number or staying on your work schedule, you can shoot about 1/2 or 3/4 of what you usually shoot. I don't know if that fast rise was sped up from dinner at +12, but he would have gotten to a shootable number (200) in a few more minutes. I think you could have safely shot 2u at +12.75.
2u would not last as long, so he would be back at a pretty high number at 5:45am.

**What I would love to know is how low he went today. I'm pretty sure he was in mid greens to still be 115 at +12. Since you are not home, I think we should drop back to the last sliding scale and give it another week (reduce whole scale by .1u) We may need to adjust it some. Ill look tomorrow.
IMO the #1 priority is keep them safe.

Do you see any outward signs of illness?, vomiting? not eating?
if so, he could go low again, but probably tomorrow he is going to be sky high in the morning, and he will probably stay higher most of the day.

And to Lori and Robin- please go ahead and advise, especially if I'm AWOL, Klinger is fluctuating with micro doses, which you have a lot more experience with, than I do.
I'm just basing doses on the nadir and the drops. Since the weekend nadirs were mostly yellow, she tried a .1u increase on her sliding scale to shoot for some high blues. BUT-
.1u sent us from yellow to green???

WHY?
-illness?
-food left out during the day ?
-increased activity?
-acro tumor fluctuation?
-Marcy needs stronger reading glasses- (Just kidding ! ohmygod_smile :lol: )
-we have to remember the margin of error with meter readings- maybe the AMPS was really a few points lower, which would have changed the dose per the scale. 381 is right on the break
-he wants to go otj? Since that's not an option for us I'd have to refer you back to someone who has some experience there. Frankly since acrocat's goal is blues, I'm out of MY league in the green numbers- I've only seen them a few occassions in 3.5yrs!

well its late- Ill try to check in at AMPS
 
In my experience with Prozinc a .1u increase can give big results and will also sometime make them go through big swings while adjusting to the increase as if it were a big increase.

Sorry I havn't been around much lately so I havn't kept up. I'll try to catch up tonight.
 
Hi Marcy,
This is yesterday's post but had a chance to check in from work so thought I'd say hello. Liking those 100's numbers. YEA! Looks like Klinger shotts up kind of fast too once he gets going. What did Nancy have to say? 80 points in <1 hour. hmmm...
But love love love those blues foryou and the boy! :thumbup dancing_cat flip_cat cat_pet_icon
 
He seemed very not himself last night. He did eat, put he just didn't have any spunk.
I might need stronger contacts. :lol: you're so funny Nancy.

I'm just going to ask this...I'm a little concerned that he seems to get these un-shootable numbers so late in the day - I think this is the 2nd or 3rd week now where this happens once during the week.
We still don't know if he truly is an acro, so lets leave that out for a moment...is it possible that I could have missed his correct dose along the way again?
Thoughts?
10/5
AMPS 500
PMPS 430
3.5 u's
 
i have to go back to your SS but i would go now to the sliding scale especially with that size dose and "shoot the number" it is the only safe way to go about a situation like this.
i will look to see about missing the perfect dose but at this point that won't matter as much as not missing a shot and shooting for the # you see.
 
looks like you did'nt shoot last night huh?
well i think we need more mid dose data for this hig dose, late nadir kitty.
do you want to arrange a sliding scale so you always know what you'll be shooting?
 
Dear Nancy
I know I don't use prozinc however..

"is it possible that I could have missed his correct dose along the way again?"

I feel strongly NO! And yes I know who I am and I could be considered bias but I've been around a fair number of years now and looked at a fair number of spreadsheets, numbers, doses, etc on different insulins and I still feel NO you haven't surpassed that dose.

Not having shot last nite - you lose a little ground that way. I don't know if you trust me enough. I know with other hi dose kitties - we've often shared phone numbers amongst ourselves for backup. I am NOT trying to take over from Nancy at all - as she is your primary helper - but IF you would like someone to support you in a secondary spot - I'm willing to be there for you at any time.

I may not always be "on line" but I am available by phone. Last nite I think it might have been best to at least have shot a unit or two. Looks like perhaps - and please check this with Nancy - but you may have to shoot a token dose or so even at these low numbers to keep some sort of control to prevent these super hi numbers from happening then later.

PLease let me know - again - I in no ways mean to tell you what to do or take over - but truthfully - I don't see this as being in any way a "rebound" type of situation or having "surpassed the correct dose".
 
i hope that marcy will continue posting even with the telephone help...and keep us posted of your info patti.
i think i was of the same opinion as you. i don't know rebound was even considered at this time. patti is'nt my suggestion of sliding scale for lower #'s what you are steering at?
 
yes lori and my offering my phone number is only if she can't reach anyone here or if Nancy can't be reached. It's what we all did in hi dose so as to offer more support. Not to hide anything from anyone. I didn't mean it to be that way. But when one is worried about what to shoot and what to do - sometimes waiting for someone to answer on line can be hard to do. And in no ways did I mean to sound like I know more than anyone else. Just that again - having been used to it over in the other group and having us all done it so much before - that IF Marcy wanted it - I was willing to do it - that's all.
 
yes patti i agree it's a great idea to have an on call person...i have just been so interested in marcy and klinger i did'nt want her to leave the board for just telephone advice. even when i did'nt post while nancy was helping i always watched. just keep us abreast of the goings on k? whatever is best for klinger. but it does seem like we were on the same page huh? at least i think we were. you and i.
 
Actually Nancy did set up a sliding scale, and I don't think exchanging phone #'s is a bad idea for a high dose kitty or anyone else for that matter.

BUT

Prozinc has it's own set of idiocyncricies, so PLEASE don't leave us out, for Klingers sake.
 
I'm so sorry this may have been taken wrong. It looked like Marcy was looking for help last nite as to what to shoot and no one was available. This led to her not shooting anything and then to higher numbers. No one's fault. No problems arose. A good learning experience all the way around. Everything that is done shows us what our cats will do. Bu we found that this could be an issue with so many of our hi dose kitties with so many of us being in different time zones. We took to sharing numbers so someone was always available for help. No advice was ever hidden. It was always posted so all could give input. It was just that someone was "there" where needed. So no one was ever "alone"trying to make a difficult decision when newer issues arose. Maybe because we've been a "smaller" group this always worked so well. As I said - this is ONLY if Marcy and Nancy even want my help. I am in no means trying to disrupt what both have worked out. I'm sorry if I've cause any problems.

I'm sorry Marcy if I've upset you at all. I truly didn't mean anything by it. It was only meant to offer some support - please I meant no trouble.
 
Wow, I started this 3 hrs ago and I guess I missed a discussion while I paused for a movie :lol: Anyway- I certainly welcome all help- no ego here- its ALL about Klinger.

She's been using a sliding scale based on the nadirs and drops that we had. Unfortunately, there is very little mid cycle data on what low doses do, so the low end of the scale needs help.
Here is a repost of the first scale we used,

3.6u over 500 3.6u
3.5u 400-500 3.5u
3.4u 350-400 3.4u
3.2u 300-350 3.2u
2.6u 250-300 2.6u

then it was re-adjusted it a bit to be more aggressive, based on the pink/yellow nadir

3.6u > 480
3.5u 380-480
3.4u 330-380
3.2u 300-330
2.8u 280-300
2.6u 250-280

this past weekend Klinger's curves had yellow /high blue nadir over 3 days. We tried a .1u increase which resulted possibly in a drop a bit too low. I don't know if it was because he was not feeling well, the increase, the 380 scale mark needs adjusting upward, or a combo of these things.

Marcie, I think when a cat is in chronic rebound they don't get a good U curve- so I doubt you missed the dose, but there isnt good early curve data, is there? I wasnt helping you then, so I don't know. The curves I saw when I started with you did not look at all like rebound- they looked like normal PZIR curves.

**I noticed for us with prozinc, that as the dose increases, the nadir got later, and the duration got longer. So to me, (since you can't wait to shoot), a non shootable number at 5:45, means reduce slightly. Prozinc is different from Lev, for example, in that it creates sharper curves, and that fast rise the last 2 hours was pretty common for us on prozinc.
 
Hi everyone,
Sorry I wasn't back on last night to reply.
Patti, I'm not offended at all. Thank you for the PM.

I hope I didn't offend anyone by posting the question. But I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything.
10/6/10
AMPS 357 3.4 u
PMPS 256 2.6 u

Did I tell you all that I appreciate you watching out for Klinger. He sends his thanks.
:-D
 
Hey Marcie,
good you see your post. Hope Klinger is enjoying all his fans cheering him on! :RAHCAT Hope it's not giving him too big of a head with all this attention! ;-)

You mentioned not using u100 syringes all the time and thinking that that may have contributed to have missing the correct dose. But truly - looking over your spreadsheet and how cautiously you've increased doses and now your sliding scale - I still think you've not missed any proper dose. IMO - I just think you are still working on finding the proper balance for those numbers your rock star :o is giving you!

Don't work to hard, - hope you're getting rest -

and wishing all of you the best
 
Ok so now we get to test one of the lower parts of the scale, and keep fingers crossed.

On about 9-20, you shot 2.2u into a +13 of about 279. The next day he was high red at +11. So on that day 2.2u wasn't enough, so I feel good about the 2.6u tonight.

He is probably still rising until +2, so if you can get a before bed test it might help us understand the lower preshot cycles- we really need more info on what to do with the lower preshots. If he seems low at +3, you can encourage him to eat before bed (although I really dont expect that)

Hows the WCR? sorry to keep asking :razz:
 
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