10/30/17 BUDDY AMPS 149 waited 1/2 hr 149

Status
Not open for further replies.
Teresa & KitKat

Teresa & KitKat

Member Since 2017
I decided to go ahead and feed Buddy because he was hungry. Most of the time I would have gave him his dose of 10.5 and he would have started coming up and everything would have been fine. Since Buddy is IR and on PMPS 10/27/17 we had a few issues, I decided to give him a slight decrease in dose to 9u. If I had thought he would not have been in the high 400's by PMPS, I would have decreased it even more, but so far he is not rising high, besides the fact he has ate 3 cans of FF MC, LC dry food and a few bites of LC wet food. My problem is he crashing because of his IR (I hope to get this over) or is this a fluke and is BG will come back up. Any way I am thinking I may want some in put on a dose around 7:30 p.m., if any one would be available I would appreciate it. His SS is up to date.
 
Hi Teresa, are you following SLGS or TR or what for dosing? If he's still regularly getting dry food, then I guess it's SLGS you are following, which means reductions earned below 90. Our experience with IAA here is that only changing the dose once a week is not a good approach for IAA kitties. That allows the antibodies to lead the dance and you'll find yourself having to give even higher doses of insulin. The lowest he's been lately is in the 90's and that's still very safe numbers. In fact, the more he sees green, the better for an IAA kitty. I would go back to 10.5 units. He was starting to look good on that. The blues you saw today were probably as a result of the 10.5 unit depot.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hi Teresa, are you following SLGS or TR or what for dosing? If he's still regularly getting dry food, then I guess it's SLGS you are following, which means reductions earned below 90. Our experience with IAA here is that only changing the dose once a week is not a good approach for IAA kitties. That allows the antibodies to lead the dance and you'll find yourself having to give even higher doses of insulin. The lowest he's been lately is in the 90's and that's still very safe numbers. In fact, the more he sees green, the better for an IAA kitty. I would go back to 10.5 units. He was starting to look good on that. The blues you saw today were probably as a result of the 10.5 unit depot.
Click to expand...
Thank you, for your reply. Yesterday, Buddy ate I think 4 cans of MC wet food, 1 can LC wet food, and dry food, that was because his BG kept getting lower. I talked to our vet yesterday evening about another cat of mine, I mentioned about Buddy, she thought that he was becoming sensitive to his insulin, she told me to cut his insulin in half, which I did. This morning he was high, but that happens on the next day after he has ate a lot. I gave him the dose his doc recommend, but I might need to go back to 10.5. I followed the vet's advice because I was not sure what to do and another one of my cat's is very sick, she is taking a lot of attention. If Buddy was not IAA, I would not have lowered him, but even though he was eating a lot he kept going down, not a lot at a time, but still down until much later in the day. I did not want him to crash while I was taking care of my other cat and this is still going on today. My vet is not in until tomorrow so I might not have any resolution with my other cat until tomorrow, this causes a problem trying to take care of Buddy with strange numbers.

I talked to a Endocrinolgist at MSU about Buddy, he said to only change Buddy's dose 1 time a week, he talked to our vet and she agreed. When I see what happens with everything going on here, I will go back to the SLUGS method of dosing.

Buddy has a lot of food aversions from having pancreatitis, so sometimes he wants dry food (Dr. Elsey's LC) and sometimes he will not eat dry food. With a pancky cat I think you never know about what they will eat. When Buddy would not eat dry food, I put him on TR, then when he started begging for dry I put him on SLUGS. I just try to make sure that he eats.
 
Since you are following SLGS, the reduction point is 90 - Buddy didn't get down to that. I don't know how much experience your vet (or even the endocronologist at MSU) has, seeing the daily BG reading of an IAA kitty. But it's not like they suddenly overnight need half the amount of insulin they are currently getting. Reductions can be close together, but it still works to follow SLGS as written here. Sometimes we are a bit more aggressive with the size of the reduction, but even at 10.5 units, we wouldn't reduce more than 1.0 unit at a time. We've had several IAA only kitties here - most following TR, which holds onto a dose even longer than you would for SLGS.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Since you are following SLGS, the reduction point is 90 - Buddy didn't get down to that. I don't know how much experience your vet (or even the endocronologist at MSU) has, seeing the daily BG reading of an IAA kitty. But it's not like they suddenly overnight need half the amount of insulin they are currently getting. Reductions can be close together, but it still works to follow SLGS as written here. Sometimes we are a bit more aggressive with the size of the reduction, but even at 10.5 units, we wouldn't reduce more than 1.0 unit at a time. We've had several IAA only kitties here - most following TR, which holds onto a dose even longer than you would for SLGS.
Click to expand...
Hello Wendy,
I will go back and read TR & SLUGS again, I was at a loss because I did not know what to give him. On 10/27 I gave Buddy 10.5 U and I was up all night with him because I was afraid he would crash. The lowest he got was 91, but he started out @260 and just kept dropping until 4:15 a.m. At AMPS on 10/30 he was @ 149, I waited 1/2 hr 2x and he was still at 149, so I gave him a reduced dose of 9U and even though he ate a lot I was having problems with his BG dropping. Buddy was not dropping into really low numbers but his numbers did not seem to rise until later in the day. I was at a loss for what to do, I was talking to my vet about one of my other cats being sick and told her about Buddy, she told me to do the 5U. I know that vet's do not always know a lot about dosing, but at that time I had a lot going on and I still do, so I just did what she said. All I want to do is to take care of my cats, do you have any suggestions on what I should for Buddy's evening dose.
 
If you are nervous about him going low, though the 90's is no where near low, you could reduce him to 10 units.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you are nervous about him going low, though the 90's is no where near low, you could reduce him to 10 units.
Click to expand...
Hi Wendy,
I gave Buddy his PMPS insulin about 2 hrs ago, I gave him 10.5u. I am always concerned about him going low or hypo.
If an IAA kitty starts to break through their insulin resistance does that happen all at once or over a period of time.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you are nervous about him going low, though the 90's is no where near low, you could reduce him to 10 units.
Click to expand...
I gave Buddy 10.5 u @ PMPS and +3 he is @54, I have put Karo syrup in his mouth and feed him gravy lovers beef feast with 20 carbs, in 1/2 hr I have got him up to 190. I do believe 10.5u is not right dose for him, tomorrow I need to work on this.
 
Teresa & Buddy said:
If an IAA kitty starts to break through their insulin resistance does that happen all at once or over a period of time.
Click to expand...
It does not happen all at once, but over time. As I mentioned above, follow the dosing method listed here and you should be OK. Though sometimes we'll be take back to back reductions or slightly larger reductions. Following SLGS, you have more of a margin for error than those following TR.
Teresa & Buddy said:
I forgot to ask, how often do you think an IAA kitty's dose needs to be changed.
Click to expand...
Same as any other kitty, following the dosing method (SLGS) as to time frames.

Please keep testing tonight for two hours after giving karo. The karo can wear off and he could drop again. At 54 however, he was safe. We typically don't feed high carbs until they go below 50. He has earned a reduction according to SLGS. If you want to be more aggressive on the reduction, take him down to 9.5 units. Kitties will often have a strong reaction to the first dose after a "fur shot" or lowered dose. That could be what you saw tonight.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It does not happen all at once, but over time. As I mentioned above, follow the dosing method listed here and you should be OK. Though sometimes we'll be take back to back reductions or slightly larger reductions. Following SLGS, you have more of a margin for error than those following TR.

Same as any other kitty, following the dosing method (SLGS) as to time frames.

Please keep testing tonight for two hours after giving karo. The karo can wear off and he could drop again. At 54 however, he was safe. We typically don't feed high carbs until they go below 50. He has earned a reduction according to SLGS. If you want to be more aggressive on the reduction, take him down to 9.5 units. Kitties will often have a strong reaction to the first dose after a "fur shot" or lowered dose. That could be what you saw tonight.
Click to expand...
I know it is 4:10 a.m.and this is the 2nd night in less than a week, that I have been up all night with Buddy because of low numbers, and the 3rd day in less than a week that we have had problems because of him diving. In the morning I have my 96 yr old Mother to take care of, 4 other cats and 1 of them is sick & 1 other taking medication so I will be very aggressive with a reduction. I do not mean to be rude, but I cannot continue to give Buddy these large doses, then follow behind him checking him all night. He was not having problems until Friday night, once this started it just seems to continue on.
 
Hi Teresa,

I'm sorry you are juggling so much right now. I understand how stressful that can be. If Buddy has no history of ketones or DKA, then take the reduction you need to take so you can keep all your plates in the air. Better a day too high than an hour too low. You can always bring him back up in dose when things have settled down a bit.

Have you tested again since the 190? How long ago was that test?

Just a housekeeping request: Could you please move the comment that you put in the PM +2 cell over to the comments section? It makes it hard to read the SS sometimes if there are comments where there are supposed to be numbers, especially when they are shaded in one of colors we use.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Hi Teresa,

I'm sorry you are juggling so much right now. I understand how stressful that can be. If Buddy has no history of ketones or DKA, then take the reduction you need to take so you can keep all your plates in the air. Better a day too high than an hour too low. You can always bring him back up in dose when things have settled down a bit.

Have you tested again since the 190? How long ago was that test?

Just a housekeeping request: Could you please move the comment that you put in the PM +2 cell over to the comments section? It makes it hard to read the SS sometimes if there are comments where there are supposed to be numbers, especially when they are shaded in one of colors we use.
Click to expand...
Thank you, for your reply. I am on my way to bed right now at 8:32 a.m. I did check Buddy every hour, when I get up I will change the SS. I appreciate your kindness.
 
No problem reducing the dose if you need to for life. I often temporarily reduced Neko's dose so I could get some sleep. Just put a comment to that effect in the Remarks section, so people could follow why you did the reduction, and will stop asking.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top