? 10/25 Boomer AMBG 164 +3 146 PMBG 130

[Judy and Boomer]

Yesterday
Good morning!
Yesterday I discovered that out of the 4 foods that I've been giving Boomer ever since he was dx, ff seafood, ff ocean whitefish and tuna, ff code sole and shrimp and ff chicken, 3 of them are now over 10% carb and the one that isn't, seafood, is barely under at 9.09%.
I am so annoyed! These 4 foods were the lowest in carb that we could get and that's why I have been feeding them to Boomer for the last 2.5 years.
He is so carb sensitive that I'm surprised his levels haven't gone higher than the low blues.

Luckily I did have some ff turkey and giblets on hand which I calculated as 6.82% carb dry matter so that's what I gave him for his +3, +6, and +9 meals.

I happened to wake up (thank you DH ) right before Boomer's +9 dish opened so I got up to make sure he ate it at +9 and to pick up any leftovers. So I will be able to do a test at AMBG and at +3 knowing that he hasn't had any in-between meal snacks of his leftovers.

I'm really not sure what to feed Boomer now. I may have to switch to the raw food. Is there anyone in Canada that feeds raw food? Would love to know where you buy it from and what to look for.

 

[carfurby (GA)]

How frustrating with the food being higher carb now. Hopefully that's all that was making Boomer have blue numbers.

 

[Osha]

I am so annoyed about the food thing too!

I hope Boomer's number is lower today with the turkey and giblets.

 

[Shoeskitty-GA]

Judy, can you share where you found the carb info?

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Judy, can you share where you found the carb info?

Hi Sandi, I actually meant to post the formula I use to calculate! So here it is:

100 - % protein - % moisture - % fat - % fibre - % ash = %carb
The above will give you the % carb in the wet food.
But since water has no protein/fat/fibre/ash in it, you need to take the water (moisture) out of the equation
So if the % moisture is given at 80%, then by default the dry matter is 20%

Take the % carb that you calculated and divide it by the dry matter % then multiply by 100 and that will give you the % carbs in dry matter

Here's an example from ff Ocean Whitefish and Tuna (note I took the values straight from the can label last night)

protein 12.0%
fat 2.0%
moisture 78%
fibre 1.5%
ash 3.7%

The above totals 97.2% therefore 100-97.2 = 2.8% carbs in wet matter

Since the moisture content is 78% by default the dry content is 22%

2.8 divided by 22 and multiplied by 100 equals 12.73% carbs in dry matter

 

[Shoeskitty-GA]

Ok. Thank you.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

AMBG 164
I don't know what to do. I don't know what to feed. And I don't know whether to make a vetty appt.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Oh Judy my stomach hurts for you. Since you said that Boomer is so carb sensitive it could take a few days to rid those carbs. When Bubba lost remission in Sept he got into the garbage (we think) along with the bad tooth and Jill and Alex said it can take 72 hours for some to clear. How is he otherwise?

 

[Gill & George]

I think @Wendy&Neko feeds raw.

Seeing as you know that the carb content of the foods you have been feeding him have gone up and they are now HC, he may come back down, hopefully it won't knock him out of remission.

Why don't you get a +3 and see what happens.
He does seem to have been trending up over the last couple of days, but that may have been the effect of the food.
If he is still up by pmps I think it may be worth thinking about starting some insulin, best to nip it in the bud.

Does he seem unwell? pain? constipated? etc
When did you last feed him the problematic FF?

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Oh Judy my stomach hurts for you. Since you said that Boomer is so carb sensitive it could take a few days to rid those carbs. When Bubba lost remission in Sept he got into the garbage (we think) along with the bad tooth and Jill and Alex said it can take 72 hours for some to clear. How is he otherwise?

He's being a normal Boomer. Sleeping. lol

 

[Judy and Boomer]

I think @Wendy&Neko feeds raw.

Seeing as you know that the carb content of the foods you have been feeding him have gone up and they are now HC, he may come back down, hopefully it won't knock him out of remission.

Why don't you get a +3 and see what happens.
He does seem to have been trending up over the last couple of days, but that may have been the effect of the food.
If he is still up by pmps I think it may be worth thinking about starting some insulin, best to nip it in the bud.

Does he seem unwell? pain? constipated? etc
When did you last feed him the problematic FF?

He doesn't seem unwell or in pain. He had a small poop last night. He's sleeping like he usually would be this time of day (well almost any time of day lol). I gave him the President's Choice food at 8:00 pm (PMBG) thinking it was lower in carbs then did the calculation and found out it was 12%. So overnight he got FF chicken and giblets which was still 8% carbs but the lowest I had on hand.
I have found a raw food that is really low in carbs it has 1.3g of carbs with 66.8% water so I believe the dry matter carbs would be 1.3 divided by (100-66.8) x 100 equals 3.9% carbs dry matter. Hopefully it's available near me.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

How do I transition Boomer to a raw food diet quickly but without upsetting his tummy?

 

[Amy&TrixieCat]

I do think switching him to a different food and seeing how is BG responds would be a good experiment.

Trix eats FF Chicken Classic and while her numbers have been a tad higher, they haven't been astronomically so....I'm finding all of this confusing myself. I would really, really struggle if I have to change her diet at this point.

 

[Gill & George]

How do I transition Boomer to a raw food diet quickly but without upsetting his tummy?

Here's a link on how to transition from canned to raw
http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/how-to-transition-your-cat-to-a-raw-diet
How quick you can go is I guess going to be down to Boomer.

Hopefully he'll slide down this morning for you

 

[Judy and Boomer]

I do think switching him to a different food and seeing how is BG responds would be a good experiment.

Trix eats FF Chicken Classic and while her numbers have been a tad higher, they haven't been astronomically so....I'm finding all of this confusing myself. I would really, really struggle if I have to change her diet at this point.

I am struggling. I am frantically trying to find something lower carb that is available near me. I'm going to get a +3 in a bit less than 2 hours and if he's the same bg or higher I'll make a vet appt.
We did start 4 new cases of food just recently (Saturday I think) but his levels came up the day before we started the new food.

 

[Shoeskitty-GA]

Hope you find a better food for Boomer Judy.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

(((Judy))) I'm so sorry! Try to breath at at least a little bit. Yes, I can take a few days to rid the carbs. @Wendy&Neko does feed raw but she's on the other side of the country. If you can find Radcat that would be the first choice of pre packaged raw in my opinion. Natures Variety is another or Primal that come in patties or nuggets. You should be able to get both of those fairly easy. I believe the nuggets are easier to portion out. Many are using EZ Complete mixed with raw or cooked http://www.foodfurlife.com/. They have a wealth of information on there. In the meantime, have you ever tried Wellness canned? I don't like it much and neither of my picky eaters would touch it but think that's available. Look at the list, not all are LC http://www.catinfo.org/docs/SortableCatFoodChartCatinfo.org2-22-13.htm

 

[Amy&TrixieCat]

So were you in the middle/towards the end of a case when his BGs started rising - ie, his BGs were OK for a large portion of the case/batch before he started going up, but then at the end of the same case/batch, his numbers went up? I hope that makes sense. And if it's the case, then I'd be a little less suspicious of the food. But a change in food would be a good way to try and figure it out.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

So were you in the middle/towards the end of a case when his BGs started rising - ie, his BGs were OK for a large portion of the case/batch before he started going up, but then at the end of the same case/batch, his numbers went up? I hope that makes sense. And if it's the case, then I'd be a little less suspicious of the food. But a change in food would be a good way to try and figure it out.

We were at the very end of 4 cases (4 varieties). I think I fed the last of the old ones Friday or Saturday. His level jumped up one day about a week ago then came back down and was ok until Friday. So I don't think this is 100% about the food although it's probably contributing to the big increase over the last couple of days.

I am leaning towards making a vet appt but will wait for another 1.5 hours to see what his +3 is; I'm not expecting anything lower

 

[Gill & George]

 

[Judy and Boomer]

(((Judy))) I'm so sorry! Try to breath at at least a little bit. Yes, I can take a few days to rid the carbs. @Wendy&Neko does feed raw but she's on the other side of the country. If you can find Radcat that would be the first choice of pre packaged raw in my opinion. Natures Variety is another or Primal that come in patties or nuggets. You should be able to get both of those fairly easy. I believe the nuggets are easier to portion out. Many are using EZ Complete mixed with raw or cooked http://www.foodfurlife.com/. They have a wealth of information on there. In the meantime, have you ever tried Wellness canned? I don't like it much and neither of my picky eaters would touch it but think that's available. Look at the list, not all are LC http://www.catinfo.org/docs/SortableCatFoodChartCatinfo.org2-22-13.htm

Thanks Karen, Radcat doesn't seem to be available in Canada but I will check out the others!

 

[Doodles & Karen]

Radcat doesn't seem to be available in Canada

I know Wendy had a hard time getting it. It's hardly available in my area either. Apparently the company is crappy to deal with. I think Primal is better than the NV raw. NV adds peas and I hate peas in cat food.

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Aren't all the values on the FF tins listed as minimums and maximums? That makes the figures pretty useless for running the carb calcs.

You could ring them to check if they've changed the formula.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

HI
I've been feeding raw for over 15 years now. I feed the RadCat. The key to transitioning them is to go slowly at first. I mixed a little bit of raw into their regular food, meal by meal increasing the raw ratio until it is all raw unless they take to it sooner. Gussie was a fast convert.
The Darwins is one I've seen folks using here..
I would start with a turkey as it at least has been my experience has been tolerated by more of my cats. Rabbit and duck are more rich and I've found cause some problems. The bigger animals, venison, beef,lamb I've not been able to get mine to try at all.
But that said ECID...
So sorry for the food issues, that is so maddening....
Hoping Boomers numbers issue is simply a result of the good secretly changing formula..I wouldn't trust the company that they didn't change things ....if not there is something Amis statistically since it's happening to so many, just doesn't fit the law of averages I was taught....just saying
Super hugs headed your way
ETA: and WHICH raw they will deign to eat is variable too. Mine will eat ground whole meat, the RadCat,the primal ground meat ( be careful to watch out for veggies), home ground with supplements, but will not touch with a ten foot pole any of the nicely and conveniently prepackaged varieties such as patties, nuggets etc that come frozen
So you may have to experiment to find that raw he will eat.
Hugs

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Thanks Karen, Radcat doesn't seem to be available in Canada but I will check out the others!

I just calculated one of the NV Raw diets and it's 22% carb (dry matter). HUH? Am I doing this wrong, could someone else calculate please maybe I'm doing something wrong? Link

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

No clue, I don't get how you calculate but math was never my strong point! That sure has a lot of veggies in there and fish! I'm guessing the carbs are coming from those veggie ingredients. I'd try to stay to a raw that has little or no veggies. The Darwins is one I'm thinking of trying as its not got veggies in it.
( tho why I'm messing around and trying something different makes no sense..it's a human kind of thing)

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

This calculator is very simple to use and gives the wet matter carb % and dry matter carb % by calories


http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

This calculator is very simple to use and gives the wet matter carb % and dry matter carb % by calories


http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

Wow how did I miss that handy tool?!
Looks like my RadCat turkey is -1.3% carbs
Great tool!!

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Thanks @Tuxedo Mom I just double-checked my calculation of the NV raw diet and it's the same as my calculation.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Wow how did I miss that handy tool?!
Looks like my RadCat turkey is -1.3% carbs
Great tool!!

Always look at the dry matter carb % on the bottom right column. This show the % of calories which is what you want to go by

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Always look at the dry matter carb % on the bottom right column. This show the % of calories which is what you want to go by

yes that is what I look at/calculate.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Thanks @Tuxedo Mom I just double-checked my calculation of the NV raw diet and it's the same as my calculation.

Yes I ran your food with the info you posted and it came VERY close to what you had calculated. This tool is just much simpler to use

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

yes that is what I look at/calculate.

Judy your "long hand" calculations were already doing the dry matter calorie %. Unfortunately many people just look at the wet matter carbs and don't take the extra step so I just wanted to clarify that for anyone using this tool.

 

[Asrael]

Thanks for posting the calculator- It does look like the PC foods are no longer any good- Beef was 9. and Cod, Sole and Shrimp were 11.....

Maybe this is affecting some of Trouble's wonky numbers- Sorry to send you that list @Judy and Boomer ....

Going to look at the Wellness cans later- and BFF... Ughh!!!

Hope Boomer comes down soon!

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Thanks for posting the calculator- It does look like the PC foods are no longer any good- Beef was 9. and Cod, Sole and Shrimp were 11.....

Maybe this is affecting some of Trouble's wonky numbers- Sorry to send you that list @Judy and Boomer ....

Going to look at the Wellness cans later- and BFF... Ughh!!!

Hope Boomer comes down soon!

I think the on going problems with commercial foods of all sorts just highlights that we need to always be checking the labels and not just trusting a food that "used" to be safe. I found out many months ago that Friskies pates were not as low carb as earlier lists had shown. Some of the pates were as high 12%. It is sad but each time we purchase food we need to check the labels.

 

[Asrael]

I think the on going problems with commercial foods of all sorts just highlights that we need to always be checking the labels and not just trusting a food that "used" to be safe. I found out many months ago that Friskies pates were not as low carb as earlier lists had shown. Some of the pates were as high 12%. It is sad but each time we purchase food we need to check the labels.

Yes- This really frustrating- just testing foods now- and wellness that I thought was low carb is testing at 11/12 in the dry matter- Beef and Chicken and Chicken. BFF is ok so far... UGH!!

 

[Judy and Boomer]

+3 146

 

[Judy and Boomer]

I think the on going problems with commercial foods of all sorts just highlights that we need to always be checking the labels and not just trusting a food that "used" to be safe. I found out many months ago that Friskies pates were not as low carb as earlier lists had shown. Some of the pates were as high 12%. It is sad but each time we purchase food we need to check the labels.

Yes I had that same experience with Friskies!

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Yes I had that same experience with Friskies!

And considering that pet food companies are allowed up to 6 months before they have to change the can labels to reflect changes in their formulas it is an on-going struggle

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Unfortunately, using the numbers that are on the can of cat food will not give you the correct value for the carbs. What's on the can are guaranteed analysis numbers vs. the "as fed" values. The guaranteed analysis (the min and max values) may be in the ballpark but maybe not.

There is a thread on the Health Links forum on calculating carbs. Janet (& Binky), a member who was among the first to pull together information on the composition of cat food, has a spreadsheet for calculating carb values using "as fed" data. This is the link.

I was feeding Wellness for years. You might want to look on Dr. Lisa's page. The turkey and chicken varieties were around 4 - 5% carb. I think that was true with the calculator noted above, as well.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

The main problem with the "as fed by" values is that it relies on the manufacturer to have updated information, which may not always be the case.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Made a vet appt for him 5:30 tomorrow. Meanwhile I may visit our nearby pet store to see what they have in raw food and I'll have my calculator with me to calculate the carbs before I purchase.

 

[Asrael]

Unfortunately, using the numbers that are on the can of cat food will not give you the correct value for the carbs. What's on the can are guaranteed analysis numbers vs. the "as fed" values. The guaranteed analysis (the min and max values) may be in the ballpark but maybe not.

There is a thread on the Health Links forum on calculating carbs. Janet (& Binky), a member who was among the first to pull together information on the composition of cat food, has a spreadsheet for calculating carb values using "as fed" data. This is the link.

I was feeding Wellness for years. You might want to look on Dr. Lisa's page. The turkey and chicken varieties were around 4 - 5% carb. I think that was true with the calculator noted above, as well.

Thanks @Sienne and Gabby (GA) - that is where I have gotten all my info- except the PC, from Binky's and Dr.Lisa's guide... so have been trusting that... we just bought 40-50 cans of wellness (it was on sale).... hmmmm what to do...

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Unfortunately, using the numbers that are on the can of cat food will not give you the correct value for the carbs. What's on the can are guaranteed analysis numbers vs. the "as fed" values. The guaranteed analysis (the min and max values) may be in the ballpark but maybe not.

There is a thread on the Health Links forum on calculating carbs. Janet (& Binky), a member who was among the first to pull together information on the composition of cat food, has a spreadsheet for calculating carb values using "as fed" data. This is the link.

I was feeding Wellness for years. You might want to look on Dr. Lisa's page. The turkey and chicken varieties were around 4 - 5% carb. I think that was true with the calculator noted above, as well.

Hi @Sienne and Gabby (GA) I get that the numbers on the label are min and max values. Where do I get the "as fed"? I can't download the spreadsheet she provides; it's in excel and I'm a mac user and don't have excel.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

In addition to Wellness, you can also get Weruva products at most pet food stores in thsi part of Canada. A lot of them are LC. The Catinfo food chart has most of those numbers, but not the new flavours. Fortunately, Weruva does list the as-fed and dry matter breakdowns for each of their products on their web site. And as a side note, the catinfo list also shows the Nature's Variety raw, and chicken is 2% carbs and a good low phosphorus product that I used to feed Neko when she would eat it. Other canned food brands that include low carb flavours that I've seen here are Ziwipeak, Addition, Go!, Halo, Holistic Select, Merrick, Nature's Logic, Nature's Variety, Titki Cat (though being phased out in BC ). Their may be others. You may find shopping at an independent or small chain pet food store is better for finding selection. At least as a way to try flavours, then maybe shop on line for better prices.

As for premanufactured raw, there are a ton of Canadian made options. I was feeding Neko (and still feed Theo) Red Dog/Blue Kat products. I know they sell their product in some stores in Ontario. I have their As-Fed numbers and all are LC. Here is their web page on transitioning to raw. Carnivora out of Winnepeg also sell a good product in your area. There are a lot of other Canadian made products, but I don't know which ones are available your way. Again, the smaller chain pet food stores may be your go to place. I just did a quick Google on raw pet food London Ontario and got some hits. Heck, out here, even Petsmart carries Natures Variety raw chicken. Just check out the freezers in your local stores.

And finally, home made is definitely an option. I am now using EZ Complete, but another (and cheaper) premix option for us is TC Feline, made on Saltspring Island BC. I was using their product before IBD hit the house. It's quite easy to make your own raw, and you can start with cooked food if you think that'll be easier, though it's usually easier on the bean than the cat at first. Before starting raw, try adding probiotics to their diet. Not all cats need that, but it can help some who have lost their natural ability to process raw meat.

"As-Fed" numbers come from the manufacturer.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

On the US manufactured raw products - you can try local pet stores selling raw, but I have purchased Radcat (very expensive here and now only available in inconvenient large tubs), and Primal. I just remembered I've also seen Bold N Raw as another product that I think is made in Ontario and their ingredients looked good - but I haven't asked for their As-Fed numbers.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

For FF ocean whitefish and tuna the "guaranteed analysis" numbers give me a carb (dry food) value of 12.73%.
But I went back to the email I received from Purina in July and they provided the guaranteed analysis and the "as fed". The guaranteed analysis they provided is exactly the same as on the can. Using their "as fed" numbers but doing the same calculation, I get 1.74% carbs.

sigh

I am so frustrated.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

No clue, I don't get how you calculate but math was never my strong point! That sure has a lot of veggies in there and fish! I'm guessing the carbs are coming from those veggie ingredients. I'd try to stay to a raw that has little or no veggies. The Darwins is one I'm thinking of trying as its not got veggies in it.
( tho why I'm messing around and trying something different makes no sense..it's a human kind of thing)

I dislike the NV raw for that reason too Leslie. If you try Darwins you need to add supplements in case you weren't aware of that. Hare-Today has every protein available. Even though Doodles never ate raw, it was my dream lol so have done a bit of research on it.

Wendy gave you lots of good options Judy!

 

[Judy and Boomer]

So I guess we're back to the big question of yesterday; has Purina actually changed the formula of their Fancy Feast?
I love the list compiled by Dr Lisa but it was compiled 4 years ago!
Boomer likes the fancy feast and he has done well on it. If they haven't actually changed it then I don't need to change his diet.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

I dislike the NV raw for that reason too Leslie. If you try Darwins you need to add supplements in case you weren't aware of that. Hare-Today has every protein available. Even though Doodles never ate raw, it was my dream lol so have done a bit of research on it.

Wendy gave you lots of good options Judy!

Hare today also has every kind of critter! I used them for a bit, their grind on the whole ground rabbit was nice, finer bone bits. It was hard with havingg delivery becsuse gets so hot here.