10/23/2011 Spitzer AMPS~328

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BJM

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Straight Lantus isn't flexibly dosed and is lasting him about 10 hours. It builds up and has carryover.

Straight ProZinc is flexibly dosed and is lasting him about 8 hours. It isn't having carryover in Spitzer.

Spitzer's eating pattern is to eat a lot when food is first put down, then taper off and nibble throught the time until the next meal. His glucose goes up pretty quickly, then slowly tapers off.

Spitzer is ill and I need both some continuity and some flexibility. I have to do something to get his glucose down as he has been riding up in the 400s, with trace ketones showing up in a urine test and moderately high levels in 1 home blood test (uncertain about the validity and reliability of NovaMax on cats, so take with a grain of salt!)

I am going to custom dosing. I know there will be some concern about this.

WARNING TO NEW FOLK - THIS IS NOT STANDARD DOSING. FOLLOW THE REGULAR PROTOCOL FOR YOUR INSULIN.

I will be using a basal plus bolus approach, based on what I have observed in Spitzer's reactions to Lantus over the past year and ProZinc over the past week.

He is resuming a basal dose of Lantus at 1.5 units (This seemed a good level for him until he became ill, even if it isn't all transcribed to the spreadsheets.) His nadir on this was right around +6 hours when healthy.

He can have a bolus dose of ProZinc based on his glucose readings. Right now, 1 to 1.2 units seems to be getting him down from the 400s. His nadir has been around +4 hours. As the antibiotic takes effect (I hope), I can decrease that on the fly based on his glucose levels.

If the 2 nadirs overlap, he might actually get to a glucose in the 100s ... although I'm not holding my breath. Staying out of the 400s and getting him to the lower 300s is enough for now. The nadirs may line up just behind when most of his food is being digested, (+4 to +6) , and prevent him from going too high.

Of course I will be testing before every and any dose and some in between times; going home for lunch by using vacation leave or scheduling a longer day at the office so I can take a longer lunch.
 
The only thing I can say is good luck and we are here for you...emotionally of course
because I have to no idea what you are doing, but I hope it works!
 
BJ,
So are you using the PZI like some people do by using "R" to supplement in order to quickly bring down high numbers? It's like "Lantus, with a PZI chaser"?

Carl
 
Funny, All you has to do was say "chaser" and I get it now...
so you went back to using Lantus and are combining that with PZI..
very interested to see how that works!
 
Your approach sounds interesting and something I can see that could produce great results.

I will be interested in following your progress.

PZI a chaser!! :lol:
 
carlinsc said:
BJ,
So are you using the PZI like some people do by using "R" to supplement in order to quickly bring down high numbers? It's like "Lantus, with a PZI chaser"?

Carl
Close.

More like humans, the basal dose is for the backgound constant insulin need and the ProZinc is the bolus dose for the variable levels on top of the background level that pop up from eating or that pop up when the other insulin fades out.

Ideally, however I'd like to get to this (my attempt to illustrate what I mean):

(Note: you could just as easily insert another short acting insulin covering the needed number of hours.)
 

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PS. the numbers across the top of the picture above are the hours of the day, starting at 7 am.
 
I have a human friend who is doing this right now. He shoots a base dose of Lantus and a sliding scale of Novalog at mealtimes bid and is getting great results.

It will be interesting to see how Spitzer does on the same protocol.
 
So ya'll are way above me...I can't even figure out what a bounce is! Good luck!

confused_cat
 
Rob & Harley said:
I have a human friend who is doing this right now. He shoots a base dose of Lantus and a sliding scale of Novalog at mealtimes bid and is getting great results....

Ooh! Could you ask him what the 'rules' were for setting that up for him? Because they were probably based on more scietific guidlines than my seat of the pants guestimating!
 
BJM

I come from a big family, my grandparents had 15 kids and last count 56 grandkids 17 great grandkids there are 9 people in my family with diabetes including me and there are a few that do the same you are trying , they take fast acting during day and slow acting at night, there are 2 that have pumps it would be nice if our kitties could have a little pump and if there bg got to high we could just give them a little bump , my callies ps are so darn high to I wish you all the luck !
 
BJM said:
Rob & Harley said:
I have a human friend who is doing this right now. He shoots a base dose of Lantus and a sliding scale of Novalog at mealtimes bid and is getting great results....

Ooh! Could you ask him what the 'rules' were for setting that up for him? Because they were probably based on more scietific guidlines than my seat of the pants guestimating!


My friend said that the Lantus is the background base line for the insulin which for him equals .7u per hour.

The novalog is premeal, sliding scale to handle the meal based on the bg number. Dose is based on the # starting with a base dose of x, if bg is less than 150 he shoots base dose +?, if 150 to 200 he shoots base dose x +? etc.

I have to add that the Novalog is shorter acting than the Prozinc so I'm not sure how it will translate.

Good luck, I'll be tuning in to see how it goes.
 
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