10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still nothing

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evakot

Member Since 2010
Previous condo:
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Hi All,

So, we increased the dose twice (as advised) since I last posted, and after some excitement yesterday (some blue finally!!!!!!!), today we are back to flat and boring pinks whole day. How can that be that the same dose that seemed to be making a difference yesterday shows no impact on his BG today?

I am beginning to worry that something else is wrong; something is complicating my kitty's regulation. At what point do I need to press the vet for additional testing to rule out all the things that can cause insuline resistance? So far she has told me to just keep increasing the dose. She said my cat is "far from resistance" because he is still on a low dose. Should I be concerned about some underlying issues that cause these flat, high curves?

Thank you so much,

Eva
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

Eva...I can't answer your question as to what you should do with Big Kitty but I can just tell you that I had a similar thing happen with Gracie. We increased her to .75u and had a couple of nice blues and then all pinks and yellows. Increased to 1u then had to bring her back down to .75 which she couldn't hold. So back to 1u and again, a couple blues but mostly pinks and yellows; increased to 1.25u and after several cycles (in fact, I was just about to increase her again), she started having blues/greens. The advisors kept telling me "sometimes you have to go up to come down" and they were totally right. But they will look specifically at Big Kitty's SS and advise you more appropriately....I just wanted to let you know that it can happen. And the other thing they told me is that sometimes it takes time to find the "fitting dose". Pls don't get discouraged...I have really had to learn to work on my patience :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Eva...I can't answer your question as to what you should do with Big Kitty but I can just tell you that I had a similar thing happen with Gracie. We increased her to .75u and had a couple of nice blues and then all pinks and yellows. Increased to 1u then had to bring her back down to .75 which she couldn't hold. So back to 1u and again, a couple blues but mostly pinks and yellows; increased to 1.25u and after several cycles (in fact, I was just about to increase her again), she started having blues/greens. The advisors kept telling me "sometimes you have to go up to come down" and they were totally right. But they will look specifically at Big Kitty's SS and advise you more appropriately....I just wanted to let you know that it can happen. And the other thing they told me is that sometimes it takes time to find the "fitting dose". Pls don't get discouraged...I have really had to learn to work on my patience :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

I know I should be patient and I'm trying to be. But at the same time I do worry about Big Kitty being in 300s most of the day, every day. I worry that diabetic complications are going to start kicking in soon, if I can't bring his numbers down. It MUST be exhausting for his kidneys and other organs tp deal with these high glucose values for so long....So, I am trying to take it easy, but I do worry about my furry baby...

And also- his curves don't look at all how they are supposed to. He usually has the lowest number at about +2 or +3, so I worry that something is complicating his response to insuline...
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

One thing that your SS suggests is that you may be sticking with a dose a bit too long. You've been increasing after 3 days this last round. The quicker increases may help so Big Kitty doesn't get used to these high numbers. It can take a while to reach a dose that brings numbers down. I know -- hearing everyone say, "Be patient." is very frustrating!

I wouldn't be overly concerned about an underlying condition unless you're seeing some change in behavior (e.g., peeing outside of the litter box, not peeing, not eating, meatloafing) or you know that your cat needs a dental. I also agree with your vet that Big Kitty is on too low of a dose for you to get blood tests to rule out IAA or other high dose conditions.
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

Sienne and Gabby said:
One thing that your SS suggests is that you may be sticking with a dose a bit too long.
I know... :sad: I was sticking to a dose too long on the advice of my vet. She said to hold a dose for a minimum of 7 days. She said "cats are not humans and changing a dose every 3 days is not good for them."

I wouldn't be overly concerned about an underlying condition unless you're seeing some change in behavior (e.g., peeing outside of the litter box, not peeing, not eating, meatloafing) or you know that your cat needs a dental.
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As far as the dental- yes, he may need one. Previous vet has noted that he has gum inflammation. However, with my current vet this is a point of disagreement- she does not want to do the dental until his BG is lower. I explained to her that this might be a viscious cycle, but she doesn't seem to believe his teeth are causing the BG to be high. I don't know how to bring it up with her again. I am walking a fine line between trying not to get her offended and not wanting to work with me, and trying to take care of my cat. She is my third vet (the previous 2 wouldn't even agree to prescribe Lantus) so I am trying to appear like I am listening to her. It's hard, because her advice often doesn't coincide with advice of people on the forum. There aren't any vets here in my town knowledgable about FD so I am trying to have a good relationship with her, since she is willing to work with me and puts up with me ignoring her orders. Just not sure how to convince her about the teeth, since she has already said she won't do it now...

Eva
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

no advice here, eva...but we're thinking of you and big kitty...

celi & binks
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

One thing you can do is print out the Rand protocol and give it to your vet. Sometimes being very sweet -- "Have you seen this? I think it's really very interesting and wanted to go over it with you since it's written by a vet." may work. I've attached the article that's referenced in the link in the protocol sticky. (There's a table in the article that has the protocol outlined.) It's hard for a vet to ignore a top veterinary medicine journal.

It might be possible to find a veterinary dentist in your area. This is a link to the listings of the Academy of Veterinary Dentistry members: http://www.avdonline.org/avdmembers.html
 

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Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

in 2009, alex had been OTJ for almost 3 years when the need for a dental knocked her out of remission. her gums were slightly inflamed and had a buildup of tartar. no extractions were done. a dental + 2 months on insulin = OTJ once again! that's how important dentals are.
don't give up. find a way to talk your vet into having the dental done...
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

Sienne and Gabby said:
One thing you can do is print out the Rand protocol and give it to your vet. Sometimes being very sweet -- "Have you seen this? I think it's really very interesting and wanted to go over it with you since it's written by a vet." may work. I've attached the article that's referenced in the link in the protocol sticky. (There's a table in the article that has the protocol outlined.) It's hard for a vet to ignore a top veterinary medicine journal.

It might be possible to find a veterinary dentist in your area. This is a link to the listings of the Academy of Veterinary Dentistry members: http://www.avdonline.org/avdmembers.html
Click to expand...

Wow- thank you so much for the article!!!! It looks very, very useful! I think i will be much more convincing giving my vet this, rather than refering to finding info on the forum. I think what I need to do is to give it maybe another week, follow dose increases in the protocol, and then if still no change go back to my vet and really press her on doing the dental.

Are there any articles/evidence for the importance of a dental that I could show her, by any chance...?

Thanks again,
Eva
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

I actually looked (did a Google search) last night to see if I could find something. Let me take a look at the medical literature and get back to you.
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

I found two pieces. One is spot on but it's about humans. The other is a review article. Look on page 78 where the author notes the relationship between BG control and periodontal disease.

Eva -- the files are too big for me to attach. Can you send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll e-mail you the pdfs.
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

Sienne and Gabby said:
I found two pieces. One is spot on but it's about humans. The other is a review article. Look on page 78 where the author notes the relationship between BG control and periodontal disease.

Eva -- the files are too big for me to attach. Can you send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll e-mail you the pdfs.
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to look for this. Showing an actual article about it might be the key to convincing my vet to get the dental done now. I will try to send you a PM in a moment- never done that before. Plz let me know if it worked...
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

Eva...can you start a Sunday condo for Big Kitty and link this one to the first post?
See you there! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

What does Big Kitty Cat weigh? Little Boy is a big cat. Isn't your situation simply a case of giving more insulin? Our vet started LB on 3 units - much to the shock-horror of everyone on FDMB. As it turned out it wasn't enough and we slowly increased to 4.25 units. At the same time I had to work on getting LB to eat less. He weighs a little over 18lbs. His diabetic symptoms have abated and he's now dropping his insulin amount consistently. Some-one told me that it was important to get LB's numbers low and to keep them low if we want his pancreas to recover. Therefore why not keep raising the units until your kitty responds with consistent blue and green numbers? Pls take a look at LB's ss - we are absolutely dumb-founded how well he is starting to respond. The few weeks on 4.25 were what was needed to get LB on the peak so he could start his decline. I also only feed one tin of fancy feast per day (usually at 5am) and the rest of his food is raw, low fat meat. (free range chicken or fresh fish). He can't eat steak as it makes him itchy.

best marilyn
 
Re: 10/16 Big Kitty AMPS 334, 2 dose increases and still not

Anyname said:
What does Big Kitty Cat weigh? Little Boy is a big cat. Isn't your situation simply a case of giving more insulin? Our vet started LB on 3 units - much to the shock-horror of everyone on FDMB.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Yes, Big Kitty is a large cat. His weight was 17lb at the time he was diagnosed in September, but his ideal weight is more between 16.0- 15.5lb, the vet said. I do think he has lost some weight in the last month, just by looking at him, but my bathroom scale doesn't seem accurate enough to figure out how much. I am hopeful that the issues with regulation are dose-related and will be raising his dose gradually before I take any other steps to determine what else might be wrong.

E
 
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