? 10/15 Ivy Amps 220, +3 90, +6 169, +9 159, Pmps 97, +3 185 Libre, Fasting for labs?

Staci & Ivy

Staci & Ivy

Very Active Member
10/14/24
Amps 220 Libre

Mostly yellow day both cycles yesterday on Ivy‘s Libre. I was able to sleep in my bed last night. It’s such a double edged sword. We want them lower but then we don’t sleep. She’s higher I get to sleep. Not a great balance.

Question:
Issue on my mind and I need to prepare.
Next Tuesday, 10/22 I have to take Ivy for bloodwork as follow up to see if her T4 has changed for her thyroid condition. It’s been a month since we increased her methimazole. Still trying to get her dose right to being down T4 level.

My question/issue is I’ve been fasting her for labs and also giving her half a dose insulin the night before and skipping her shot the morning of her labs.

The problem is it completely wreaks havoc on her depot and cycles by draining the depot. When I resume the full dose the night after labs it seems to be like an increase and she can really go on a rollercoaster ride for several days.

This procedure completely screws up her cycles for many days afterward as she rebuilds the Depot.
The reason we’ve been fasting her is because when she eats before labs (a fatty lamb homemade diet) It seems to affect her lab results and be very lipemic.

My other concern is since I’ve been fasting her (if I didn’t fast her this time), would it be like comparing different situations in her lab work. i.e. fasted versus unfastened so it’s hard to compare the results since the situation/results would be different.

I don’t want to fast her and give insulin without any food on board as I’m afraid she could really crash and that would be really dangerous with no carbs and not have the ability to feed carbs if she’s crashing, especially overnight the prior night of the labs.

(FYI, She does have these cycles overnight, where she drops lower and I end up feeding carbs through the night to keep her from going too low).
Thoughts?
@Wendy&Neko @Bron and Sheba (GA)

Thank you :)

Have a safe day everyone :cat:
 
Hi Staci,
I know what you mean - sleep VS glucose level! Such a tight rope walking. :stop:
You do such a phenomenal job taking care of Ivy but it takes a toll!

Fasting before a blood test is usually necessary for a metabolic panel. It isn't needed for T4 unless they plan to scan her with contrast.
For humans, some people with hypothyroidism may be asked to refrain from eating and drinking before testing, but not for hyperthyroidism.
If lipemic blood is the issue - maybe go lighter on meals? Chicken type? I know you prepare all Ivy's food (such a good mom you are) - use something leaner?
I totally understand your concern about fasting and not shooting. It takes time to recover from that.
I am sure that experienced folks will chime in and I hope you will find good options!
Sending you :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
cecile & bella said:
Does the vet ask her to fast, just for thyroid hormones levels? Or is it for a full bloodwork for other reasons as well?
I am glad you got a good night in your bed :bighug:
Click to expand...
No, the vet doesn’t ask me to do it specifically.
We just sort of decided that that may be a better way to go since her blood is so lipemic. We are only testing this time for the T4.

I’m sure the doctor would say it’s fine to not Fast her but my concern is comparing the lab results to past labs recently.

Are we comparing apples to apples since the last set of T4 labs were fasted and this one would not be fasted if I don’t fast her.
:banghead:
 
Mikanmama said:
Hi Staci,
I know what you mean - sleep VS glucose level! Such a tight rope walking. :stop:
You do such a phenomenal job taking care of Ivy but it takes a toll!

Fasting before a blood test is usually necessary for a metabolic panel. It isn't needed for T4 unless they plan to scan her with contrast.
For humans, some people with hypothyroidism may be asked to refrain from eating and drinking before testing, but not for hyperthyroidism.
If lipemic blood is the issue - maybe go lighter on meals? Chicken type? I know you prepare all Ivy's food (such a good mom you are) - use something leaner?
I totally understand your concern about fasting and not shooting. It takes time to recover from that.
I am sure that experienced folks will chime in and I hope you will find good options!
Sending you :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
Hi Kit, no, they’re not doing anything with contrast. It’s just a straight T4 lab test only this time.

Unfortunately, I only use a recipe for lamb for her. (She used to eat chicken and salmon but seemed to develop IBC. So they decided to switch to a novel protein). We landed on lamb and have been using only that for several years. And she does well with this recipe.

So...I did get a recipe for ground turkey and sweet potato from my nutritionist last year when I thought she may be allergic (she was ripping her tee shirts apart but turned out she just hated wearing a tee shirt).

So I made a batch of the 6% but never used it so have no idea how she would respond to it.

Good ideas, Kit. Will have to see what the consensus is to make the call....thanks for chiming in!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Staci. How long are you fasting her? I’m not sure how long you have to fast to not effect the test but maybe you could still feed her a late night meal and be ok. Also I’ve been told on here that even cats having surgery can have a small amount of insulin (I think it’s 1 unit) the morning of surgery. Maybe ask on here. Maybe that would interfere less with the depot and her following cycles.

when Tiger had his dental surgery, I fed him at 3am for a 9am surgery and gave him 1 unit of insulin that morning . Not sure if that would work for a blood test but just a thought….

it’s such a balancing act we do with our babies, anything can throw them off, right? Good luck coming up with a schedule that works for Ivy! Hugs…
 
Hi Staci,

I think the interesting question is, if the T4 is influenced by food at all. Unfortunately I can't answer that but I didn't fast Binie before T4. What I do know is, that the blood test should be at the same time for T4. Maybe you are already doing that. If you change the time, it is really difficult to compare it.

I wonder if it would be possible, to prepare the lamb with less fat. Maybe take some other parts of the lamb especially for occasions like that? I know lamb itself can be very lean.

And yes, sleeping vs. good numbers is a mean choice. :rolleyes:

Hope you get many helpful answers! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Staci & Ivy said:
I don’t want to fast her and give insulin without any food on board as I’m afraid she could really crash
Click to expand...
Cats undergoing anaesthesia, and cannot eat at all, can get a half dose day of, and full dose the evening before. Insulin in the body does more than combat carbs in her food. So you could give a 1.75 unit dose in the AM. Second thing, she will be at the vet at the time. They can monitor her Libre and give her glucose syrup if needed. Third thing, she hasn't seen green for several days and did a big drop this AM, chances of bounce are fairly good.

As you can see today, her eating well is no guarantee she won't dive down. :D
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Cats undergoing anaesthesia, and cannot eat at all, can get a half dose day of, and full dose the evening before. Insulin in the body does more than combat carbs in her food. So you could give a 1.75 unit dose in the AM. Second thing, she will be at the vet at the time. They can monitor her Libre and give her glucose syrup if needed. Third thing, she hasn't seen green for several days and did a big drop this AM, chances of bounce are fairly good.

As you can see today, her eating well is no guarantee she won't dive down. :D
Click to expand...
HI Wendy, I understand, but my concern is when she has the overnight dives (before the appointment the next day) if I was fasting her on a full dose of insulin from the prior night) then I couldn't feed her overnight, which would be a problem if she dives.

The bounce she may have from this morning's drop will be long gone by next Tuesday, when her appointment is.

So, that's my concern.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Hi Staci. How long are you fasting her? I’m not sure how long you have to fast to not effect the test but maybe you could still feed her a late night meal and be ok. Also I’ve been told on here that even cats having surgery can have a small amount of insulin (I think it’s 1 unit) the morning of surgery. Maybe ask on here. Maybe that would interfere less with the depot and her following cycles.

when Tiger had his dental surgery, I fed him at 3am for a 9am surgery and gave him 1 unit of insulin that morning . Not sure if that would work for a blood test but just a thought….

it’s such a balancing act we do with our babies, anything can throw them off, right? Good luck coming up with a schedule that works for Ivy! Hugs…
Click to expand...
Hi Deb,
I would fast her after midnight, (again assuming she wasn't doing any of her overnight deep dives, which she does frequently) but give her a few tsp around 2 am (+8) and have the bloodtest done at 10 am, so about 8 hours without any food.

I just don't like giving her insulin with no food since she is prone to diving.
 
Heike & BInie said:
Hi Staci,

I think the interesting question is, if the T4 is influenced by food at all. Unfortunately I can't answer that but I didn't fast Binie before T4. What I do know is, that the blood test should be at the same time for T4. Maybe you are already doing that. If you change the time, it is really difficult to compare it.

I wonder if it would be possible, to prepare the lamb with less fat. Maybe take some other parts of the lamb especially for occasions like that? I know lamb itself can be very lean.

And yes, sleeping vs. good numbers is a mean choice. :rolleyes:

Hope you get many helpful answers! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
Hi Heike,
I have read the T4 can be influenced by lipemic blood. (but you see varying answers). If Ivy didn't have lipemic blood, I wouldn't even worry, but she does. I can only assume from her lamb diet.

All I do is bake/roast the lamb. But it is fatty. I do try to cut off as much fat as I can before even cooking, but it's lamb. Which is fatty!
I follow the recipe as prepared by the nutritionist, so there's no other way to "alter" the recipe :(

And yes, I do know the test needs to be at the same time each time we test, we do that. Good reminder, though!

Thanks for your great suggestions!! It's so complicated with Ivy! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Hi Heike,
I have read the T4 can be influenced by lipemic blood. (but you see varying answers). If Ivy didn't have lipemic blood, I wouldn't even worry, but she does. I can only assume from her lamb diet.

All I do is bake/roast the lamb. But it is fatty. I do try to cut off as much fat as I can before even cooking, but it's lamb. Which is fatty!
I follow the recipe as prepared by the nutritionist, so there's no other way to "alter" the recipe :(

And yes, I do know the test needs to be at the same time each time we test, we do that. Good reminder, though!

Thanks for your great suggestions!! It's so complicated with Ivy! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

Hi Staci,

seems like you thought about everything already. Binie has lipemic blood too and her vet never mentioned anything regarding the T4 test. But she might be a bit sloppy with some things.

I looked up the fat content of different parts of the lamb and I found an overview on the website of a German meat factory, maybe your browser can translate it:

https://www.timm-frische.de/produktvielfalt/fleischkunde-lamm/

The fat content of different parts of the lamb can vary between 14.2 % (saddle of lamb) and 3.4 % (filet). I know that cat food out of filet might be a bit decadent but if it is a special for vet visits, it might be possible?

Hope you find a good solution.

I send you a big, big hug! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Heike & BInie said:
Hi Staci,

seems like you thought about everything already. Binie has lipemic blood too and her vet never mentioned anything regarding the T4 test. But she might be a bit sloppy with some things.

I looked up the fat content of different parts of the lamb and I found an overview on the website of a German meat factory, maybe your browser can translate it:

https://www.timm-frische.de/produktvielfalt/fleischkunde-lamm/

The fat content of different parts of the lamb can vary between 14.2 % (saddle of lamb) and 3.4 % (filet). I know that cat food out of filet might be a bit decadent but if it is a special for vet visits, it might be possible?

Hope you find a good solution.

I send you a big, big hug! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
You are the best, Heike! You’re so good at researching anything!! ❤️❤️❤️

Since my recipe is carefully calculated I must use certain specific parts of the lamb for the recipe to be balanced (and I wouldn’t know how to properly rebalance it on my own with different cuts of meat). So I would be afraid to alter the recipe. (I follow it exactly).
I really appreciate your doing the research for me, but I’m not sure how to use the information.

I think I just have to find a way to either reduce or skip her insulin and fast her the morning of the labs to reduce the lipemia issue.
It sucks but I should have her home by 11ish AM and be able to give her food.
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Staci & Ivy said:
10/14/24
Amps 220 Libre

Mostly yellow day both cycles yesterday on Ivy‘s Libre. I was able to sleep in my bed last night. It’s such a double edged sword. We want them lower but then we don’t sleep. She’s higher I get to sleep. Not a great balance.

Question:
Issue on my mind and I need to prepare.
Next Tuesday, 10/22 I have to take Ivy for bloodwork as follow up to see if her T4 has changed for her thyroid condition. It’s been a month since we increased her methimazole. Still trying to get her dose right to being down T4 level.

My question/issue is I’ve been fasting her for labs and also giving her half a dose insulin the night before and skipping her shot the morning of her labs.

The problem is it completely wreaks havoc on her depot and cycles by draining the depot. When I resume the full dose the night after labs it seems to be like an increase and she can really go on a rollercoaster ride for several days.

This procedure completely screws up her cycles for many days afterward as she rebuilds the Depot.
The reason we’ve been fasting her is because when she eats before labs (a fatty lamb homemade diet) It seems to affect her lab results and be very lipemic.

My other concern is since I’ve been fasting her (if I didn’t fast her this time), would it be like comparing different situations in her lab work. i.e. fasted versus unfastened so it’s hard to compare the results since the situation/results would be different.

I don’t want to fast her and give insulin without any food on board as I’m afraid she could really crash and that would be really dangerous with no carbs and not have the ability to feed carbs if she’s crashing, especially overnight the prior night of the labs.

(FYI, She does have these cycles overnight, where she drops lower and I end up feeding carbs through the night to keep her from going too low).
Thoughts?
@Wendy&Neko @Bron and Sheba (GA)

Thank you :)

Have a safe day everyone :cat:
Click to expand...

Hi Staci.
I know what you mean. I feel the same way!
I hope you and Ivy had a great day. Wishing you both a wonderful restful evening and safe surfing!
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Staci & Ivy said:
You are the best, Heike! You’re so good at researching anything!! ❤️❤️❤️

Since my recipe is carefully calculated I must use certain specific parts of the lamb for the recipe to be balanced (and I wouldn’t know how to properly rebalance it on my own with different cuts of meat). So I would be afraid to alter the recipe. (I follow it exactly).
I really appreciate your doing the research for me, but I’m not sure how to use the information.

I think I just have to find a way to either reduce or skip her insulin and fast her the morning of the labs to reduce the lipemia issue.
It sucks but I should have her home by 11ish AM and be able to give her food.
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

Hi Staci,

I understand it is difficult to alter the recipe and I think for her daily meals I wouldn't do it too. I just thought it might be o.k. for this special occasion to change the meat even though the nutrients are not perfectly balanced. Like eating a Mc Donalds Happy meal once a year while being on a whole food diet the other days. :)

But as I know you, you looked at every aspect already and all paws are crossed, she may be bouncing on Tuesday and you don't need a full skip. And if she needs a full skip, she will manage too. Last time I was amazed, how fast she was back on track.

I send you lots of hugs and good thoughts for the upcoming vet visit! :bighug::kiss::bighug:
 
I was thinking about your question, and that's what I think. Since there is no need to fast for this specific test but you prefer to have her fast, why don't you just do as you do usually in that case? This way you will be sure that she is in the same conditions than for the previous tests.
Skipping is not a big deal either. You did it a few days ago, I think, for a wedding? See that as a fur shot, that happens and if it gives you peace of mind, it is well worth it :bighug:and as Heike said, she went back to her normal numbers fast, too.
 
Heike & BInie said:
Hi Staci,

I understand it is difficult to alter the recipe and I think for her daily meals I wouldn't do it too. I just thought it might be o.k. for this special occasion to change the meat even though the nutrients are not perfectly balanced. Like eating a Mc Donalds Happy meal once a year while being on a whole food diet the other days. :)

But as I know you, you looked at every aspect already and all paws are crossed, she may be bouncing on Tuesday and you don't need a full skip. And if she needs a full skip, she will manage too. Last time I was amazed, how fast she was back on track.

I send you lots of hugs and good thoughts for the upcoming vet visit! :bighug::kiss::bighug:
Click to expand...
You’re so right, Heike. I’m giving this all a lot of thought. I agree It’s probably best to keep everything the same as the last time we did the labs.
It’s probably best to be consistent each time that way we’re comparing apples to apples.
So I probably will fast her.

I understand what you’re saying about taking her off her regular diet for one meal wouldn’t be terrible and I agree with that 100%.
My own issue is that I wouldn’t know how to alter the recipe and I wouldn’t know in advance how it would affect her blood.

I would just be guessing and I don’t want to just guess because then what’s the point if I don’t really know what I’m doing.

I try to be very scientific, as you know me about these things, with precision.

I still remember the one graphic you sent me of me tinkering with the watch, which makes me laugh every time I think about it, but you’re right, that is me.

Thanks so much for all of your support and trying to help me come up with solutions.
I appreciate everything you do and Ivy and I both appreciate you. Xoxo
:bighug::kiss::bighug::kiss:
 
cecile & bella said:
I was thinking about your question, and that's what I think. Since there is no need to fast for this specific test but you prefer to have her fast, why don't you just do as you do usually in that case? This way you will be sure that she is in the same conditions than for the previous tests.
Skipping is not a big deal either. You did it a few days ago, I think, for a wedding? See that as a fur shot, that happens and if it gives you peace of mind, it is well worth it :bighug:and as Heike said, she went back to her normal numbers fast, too.
Click to expand...
You’re right, Cecile.

I did do the skip for that wedding a couple weeks ago. And you’re right, I need to just treat it like a fur shot and not make myself completely crazy, which is what I do.
I just have been noticing that when I do things like this, it does mess up her cycles for several days.
She tends to go lower for a couple cycles and I end up spending several nights on the sofa as her depot readjusts.

It must be like an increase to the body when you go from a fur shot and go right back and ramp back up with a full shot the next cycle.

That seems to be how it affects her and I end up paying the price, but sometimes it just needs to be done. Eventually she does stabilize and then we move on. It just makes for kind of a week of hell for me as she readjusts and rebalances.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights :bighug::bighug:
 
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