10/13 Skunky BG 61, but peeing like crazy

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Skunky's Mom

Member Since 2014
Hello Lantus Land. Greetings from the falls.

Funky Skunky seems to be holding her remission well, when I checked her BG (which is not very often . . . ) it's always good. Once it was in the 70s but it's usually in the 50s.

But. . . i have noticed she is peeing a lot again. For a while we had these tiny little pee puddles, that I was so happy to see. But for the past week or so she's almost peeing as much as an unregulated diabetic.
any thoughts on that?

She has been mostly eating friskies turkey and giblets (not special diet) and I read once that it is very salty, so maybe that could be why? I try to switch it up some.

She's not drinking a whole lot of water, just peeing a lot. Weird. Back before her diagnosis, it was the constant refilling of her water bowl that I noticed before I noticed all the pee.

anyway, I figured I needed to post about this
thanks!
sarah and Skunky
 
It might be a UTI or bladder infection, although when Tess gets one it starts w/ very frequent tiny pees. Can you see if there is a pink color to the urine?
 
Those numbers certainly look like she's holding remission beautifully.

Have you have blood work done recently? Kidney disease is a big concern as our kitties age and I've noticed that many of diabetic friendly Fancy Feast and Friskies (not Special Diet) often have higher phosphorus in them, which is a concern for kidney cats. In the early stages of CKD, they tend to urinate frequently.
 
Oh gee, I hope it's not her kidneys! We had blood work done at diagnosis (back in mid-July) and everything was fine.

Grrrr. I guess it's back to the special diet foods. She hates them but oh well. . she needs to lose weight anyhoo.


I wonder if it could be stress related, does anybody know?

We have new housemates - including 2 dogs. They are super chill dogs and usually are upstairs or outside, but I'm sure it's still affecting her.
 
They can check her urine specific gravity from a urine sample. It does not have to be a sterile sample ( drawn with needle) for a usg test.
It does need to be drawn if you are testing for infection.
A USG <1.030 is an indicator of CKD.



and here's more info than you probably want....

Dr. Lisa has great advice on UTIs:

From her website, www.catinfo.org
Urinary tract infections can occur anywhere along the tract from the kidneys to the urethra. Most infections gain access to the bladder when bacteria travel up the urethra from the outside world. From the bladder, the infection can ascend to the kidneys.

Please note that when the abbreviation "UTI" is used, the 'I' must be defined. Does "I" mean infection? Or does it mean inflammation?

It is very important to understand the difference if we are to stop overusing antibiotics and start using more pain medications when cats exhibit signs of urinary tract problems.

Studies have shown that otherwise healthy cats (no kidney disease, diabetes, or hyperthyroidism) - that are showing signs of urinary tract discomfort - have only a ~1-2% chance of having a UT infection yet antibiotics are prescribed very frequently for these patients. The veterinary (as well as human) medical community needs to address this very serious problem involving the overuse/abuse of antibiotics.

Roughly 99% of these otherwise healthy cats have sterile (no infection) cystitis. This is because the feline is very good at saving water to stay hydrated which results in a very concentrated urine. (Urine Specific Gravity (USG) >1.040) Concentrated urine is a very hostile environment that does not readily support bacterial growth. Therefore......

Urinary tract infections are rare in cats without a concurrent disease such as kidney insufficiency, diabetes, or hyperthyroidism.

What about the other population of cats with diseases such as kidney insufficiency, diabetes, or hyperthyroidism? Cats with chronic kidney disease (CKD) and hyperthyroidism often produce a more dilute urine (USG <1.030) which is a friendlier environment for bacteria. Unregulated diabetic cats often have glucose (sugar) in their urine which makes a nice culture medium for bacteria.

However, even cats with CKD, hyperthyroidism, or diabetes that are showing signs of lower urinary tract disease have a less than 30% chance of having a urinary tract infection. (Several studies have been done in this area and the results have varied but all have shown less than 30%.) This fact illustrates why it is very important to run a culture and sensitivity.

Urine Culture and Sensitivity (C & S)

As described above in the Cystitis section, this is a two-part test that is used to check to see if an infection is present (culture) and what antibiotic(s) would be the most appropriate to use for the strain(s) of bacteria present (sensitivity).

Please note that I emphasized "if" in the previous sentence. It is very important to confirm that an infection actually exists rather than to subject your cat to the administration of an unnecessary, and potentially dangerous, antibiotic without proof that it is needed and is the correct one.

Culture results are reported over a period of 3 days - at a minimum. The typical sterile cystitis report will read:

24 hours - no growth

48 hours - no growth

72 hours - no growth

If there is an infection present, the report will read something like "moderate growth of e.coli - sensitivity pending." This means that the next report will give your veterinarian important information necessary to pick the best antibiotic for your cat's infection.

Cultures can be classified in 3 ways:

1) diagnostic - the initial culture before starting antibiotics to confirm that an infection is present and to identify the bacteria, assess the number of bacterial colonies to quantify the level of infection (cfu - colony forming units per milliliter of urine), and to determine the organisms' susceptibility to various antibiotics

2) therapeutic - performed 3-5 days after starting antibiotics (after a positive diagnostic culture) to assess antibiotic efficacy or it is sometimes performed 3-5 days before cessation of antibiotic administration

3) surveillance - performed 7-14 days after the last antibiotic dose to check for relapse or re-infection

Relapses are defined as recurrences caused by the same species and strain of microorganism that were found in the diagnostic culture within several weeks of stopping antibiotic therapy.

Re-infections are defined as recurrent UT infections caused by a different organism. The only way you can differentiate relapses from re-infections is to compare the results of the initial culture obtained prior to antibiotic usage to those of cultures obtained during and/or after discontinuation of the antibiotic.

Relapses represent antibiotic treatment failures that may result from improper antibiotic choice, dose and duration of therapy, lack of owner or patient compliance, failure of the patient to absorb an orally administered drug, deep-seated infections, failure to identify predisposing factors, or acquired drug resistance.

Re-infections, on the other hand, usually represents failure to recognize and eliminate predisposing factors associated with continuing dysfunction of host defenses, or UT infections caused by procedures such as catheterization or perineal urethrostomy (PU) surgery. Frequent re-infection is an absolute indication to evaluate the patient for anatomic, metabolic, and immunologic disorders that may compromise normal host defenses.

It is important to understand that when a cat has had his penis amputated (PU surgery) a vital barrier to infection has been removed.

For a patient's first time infection, therapeutic and surveillance cultures are not usually performed due to cost and added stress for the patient. However, they should be considered in all recurrent UT infection cases, otherwise the veterinarian and owner may find themselves running in circles.

To repeat an important point: Cats with a urine specific gravity above ~1.040 have a very low chance (~1-2%) of having a urinary tract infection.

Cats with a USG below ~1.030 have a higher chance of having an infection.

If a patient presents with lower urinary tract signs, and has a low urine specific gravity or is a diabetic cat that is spilling sugar in his urine, and if an in-house analysis of the urine indicates that an infection may be present, the patient may be started on a broad spectrum antibiotic pending the C & S result.

If the culture turns up negative, the antibiotic can be discontinued. Or if the culture comes up positive but shows that the bacteria are resistant to the antibiotic that has been chosen, the correct antibiotic can be started.

At least in these cases, the needless - or wrong - antibiotic will have been given for only 3 days instead of for a much longer period of time.
 
Ok, now I'm nervous :sad:

So the feeling I get is. . this requires a trip to the vet?

I had just remembered - when they did her bloodwork at diagnosis, we didn't actually do a urine test.

But if she has kidney disease it would have shown up in the blood work, right?????????????????
 
Hi Sarah,

My civvie Jetzin (GA) had sterile cystitis, like Dr Pierson talks about in that article. The vet said it's common when cats are stressed by changes in their environment. The vet's first question was do you have any new pets. His second was have you bought any new furniture and that seemed to be it. Like Ann said with the UTI though, it was lots of small pees.

Angie has CKD and that results in really big pees (even when she was in remission and her blood sugar was perfect). She does drink a lot though. Could she be drinking water somewhere else? I would take her to the vet, if she were my cat. If it's CKD it's important to catch as early as possible because (from my understanding at least) it's not reversible but they can do a lot to slow down progression.

I hope you sort it out.

Grace
 
Thanks Grace.

Yes, I will have to take her. I hope it's nothing bad. Dangit, I was so excited to get her into remission, it's bumming me out to think there is something else wrong.

Of course, she is 16 1/2 and morbidly obese so. . .

I just found out my roommate has been giving her water, too. So she has been drinking more.
 
Tess has early stage CKD as well as FD. Since she was being tested regularly we caught it early and she has remained very stable for CKD. It's been over 3 years since dx, the only thing we have had to do to keep it in check at this point getting her on a food that is low phosphorus as well as low carb. If/when Tess starts to get a progression in her test results, we can move up in her treatment. There are a lot of other things to try, but catching it early makes it much easier to control CKD.
 
i'm with Ann - when a cat's kidneys are healthy they will concentrate their urine and there just isn't as much of it. i would investigate her kidneys and get the urine-specific-gravity test that Rhiannon mentions. That tells how well she's concentrating her urine.

When punkin first developed signs of kidney disease, which is pretty common in diabetic cats because diabetes is hard on the kidneys, we switched to the Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets because it was low phosphorus. His Creatinine and BUN returned into the normal ranges after the food switch. When a cat is farther along in the process, you can add binders to the food, but you don't need to do that early on. I'd make the food switch to make it easier on her kidneys asap.

There is a list on Dr. Lisa's site (from Rhiannon) that lists food by phosphorus content. I printed out the first 3 pages that showed foods with under 200mg phosphorus, then circled everything that was under 8% carbs, then went to 4 local stores to see what options i could find. I bought samples and tried them out on my kitties to see what they liked. That would be a good start for you.

Great that miss skunky monkey is holding OTJ! Be encouraged!
 
Thanks everyone! I feel much better after reading all of y'all's experiences!

I was giving her a lot of the special diet but she hated it (must be yucky) so I was switching things up a bit. But now we're back to it!

I'll try and get her into the vet's office soon.
 
i found at least 10 canned foods that were low carb + low phosphorus, so if he doesn't like the SD T & G there are a lot of other choices that you could try. I hope something will be just right!
 
Remember that food switches may work best if done gradually, such as swapping out 20-25% of the meal each day. This may be a way to introduce new foods, or to use a combination of the lower phosphorus food with regular food.
 
I have a tab on Tess's SS w/ the food on DR. Lisa's list That are under 200mg phos / 100 kcal as well as under 10% carbs. The list is 2 years old though, so new food aren't necessarily on there nor are some of the formula changes.
 
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