10/12 Napoleon AMPS 133 +5~347 PMPS 407

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Re: 10/12 Napoleon AMPS

Nice amps for Napoleon this morning (psst, it's not in your subject line).
Hope Napoleon surfs for you
 
Re: 10/12 Napoleon AMPS 133 - have an idea, need advice,thou

Thanks everyone! At +1.5 he bounced to 293.

I have an idea and I was wondering what everyone thought. Napoleon has never been given a wet only/ low carb diet off of insulin. I was thinking of running an experiment to see how his body would handle no insulin. Would this be foolish to give him a week or so without insulin to see how he does on his own? Every time he has a normal number he just bounces. I am curious to see what his body does on its own. Any thoughts? Has anyone ever tried this? Thanks!
 
Re: 10/12 Napoleon AMPS 133 - have an idea, need advice,thou

What you're suggesting is what amounts to an OTJ trial - or half of one. Given that Napoleon is not spending consistent amounts of time in numbers below 300 while on 3.0u of insulin and LC food, I suspect you will see numbers above 300 in about 1 day. Part of why Napoleon bounces is that his liver isn't used to lower numbers. If he ends up spending more time in higher numbers if you take him off insulin, all it does it keep him used to being in the higher ranges. The process of getting a kitty's liver trained can be very frustrating! Personally, this isn't something I would attempt with Gabby and she's on less insulin.
 
Re: 10/12 Napoleon AMPS 133 - have an idea, need advice,thou

Nice AMPS and lively lovely greens last night....


If a kitty is being driven to way lower than 50 by a smaller dose, then it might be a good idea to see what they would do without insulin. It is like an OTJ Trial but it is coming off a very low dose. But I don't think that a kitty getting 3.0u would have much success with eliminating the insulin completely.

I actually tried something similar in the early days with my Shadow. Since Raja was on such a low dose in the beginning, I did a test to lower his dose radically to see if I was giving him too much insulin. Bottom line is: I wasted a LOT of time and left him in the higher numbers for longer than he should have been. Yeah, my early months were kind of a waste of time and I can see that now.
I was not here in LL then....last year at this time as a matter of fact. I tried lowering his dose and then when I came to LL, I began following the protocol and kept increasing his dose.

There have been others who have tried to radically reduce the dose and experiment as I did....and it worked out the same for them as it did for Shadow and me. A waste of time. And I am sure it was detrimental to the kitty too. There is no such suggestion to do that in the protocol that we are following here. If there was a good possibility of getting better numbers doing this, more people would have success with that experiment. But I have never, ever seen it work. So I am giving you my firsthand experience with it.

Unfortunately, the bounces are very disturbing and we all wish with all our might to make them go away. It does seem that they will bounce and bounce until they do not bounce any more. Sigh. Beyond frustrating! We don't know when exactly they will stop bouncing...but we can see it after the fact when we look back on the SSs. The bounces get smaller and they don't last quite as long as they used to.

I think we have had the most success when I started making him wait for 3 <50 numbers in order to decrease his dose. He didn't hold dosecreases too well. It is more work to keep feeding small LC meals to keep him above 50. I try to hold him at a dose until he really shows that he needs a reduction. The protocol says to wait for 3 <50 on 3 separate days. We do that with kitties who have been here for a year or so. Newly dx kitties need only one <50 to earn a dosecrease.

I am all for trying mini meals and steering the numbers with food like that. But, doing checks like lowering the dose is not really a sound way to go about it, in MHO. So, yes I tried it and no, I wouldn't suggest it to anyone because it didn't work. But I give you credit for thinking outside the box! In the end, it is up to you of course. You will make your decision on what you read about it from others. So, there is my two cents on the subject! :mrgreen: My Shadow is my Problem Child...but following the guidelines here in LL has made a big difference in his numbers. I am so sorry that I wasted so much time in the past...but here we are now, and I am signing the praises of the Protocol. I see it working with Shadow...and that's good enough for me!! :razz:

Napoleon is doing great now....I like the trend that is happening right now...you are doing a great job Nicole!! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 10/12 Napoleon AMPS 133 - have an idea, need advice,thou

Thanks Sienne and Pat, I really appreciate the time taken to explain in such detail Pat, that makes a lot of sense. If others have been there only to have it be a waste of time I do not want to put Napoleon through that. I always had this little corner in the back of my mind wondering what Napoleon would have done had he just been switched to a low carb, wet diet first and then(if needed) insulin also. He was always a dry food fed only cat with wet food as an occasional treat. We couldn't try that with him though because he had ketones at the time of his diagnosis so insulin had to be administered and we have never looked back. I will keep on going with this dose until he earns a reduction. I am sure the bounces will clear completely one day. Every time I see those high numbers I wonder so much about how it is affecting his system and just how yucky those swings are making him feel. Just so worried about my little guy.
 
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