10/05 Blue AMPS 100 +1 120 +2 138 +6 156 +8 187 PMPS 241 +2 229 +3 211 +9 273 | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

10/05 Blue AMPS 100 +1 120 +2 138 +6 156 +8 187 PMPS 241 +2 229 +3 211 +9 273

diabetic_blue

Member since 2025
Previous thread 10/03 Blue AMPS 150 +3 228 +9 309 PMPS 337 +2,5 343

Looks like the situation repeats itself, though even lower today. I don't get how this works, yesterday he was 300+ both pre shots.

Today he's 100, two tests confirmed (99 and 105).

I feel like I lack the data to shoot, though I've been testing a lot, he never went this low.

He did eat prior to testing, he won't let me test otherwise, so stall maybe 1h, test again and decide?
 
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The higher numbers you see after lower numbers are what we call "bouncing". His body's reaction to lower numbers that it's not used to. Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to "clear".

Looks like he cleared the bounce last night. Nadirs can be later in bounce clearing cycles. Even as late as at the end of the cycle. Some cats will keep dropping till the end of the cycle when clearing a bounce and then head up from PS in the next cycle. Blue might be such a cat. These caregivers get used to shooting lower preshots.

Can you monitor if you shoot? Since it is the AM cycle (rather than a PM one where staying up to monitor can be tough), it's a good chance for you to give the full dose and see how he does - provided you can monitor.
 
@Mary & Jude

I know I should be looking at trends and not individual numbers but I felt like both were going up, even after the 3 days I should have waited for a bounce to clear. So on the 560 morning, a little counter intuitive I went down instead of up and that seemed to have worked?

I don't really yet follow a protocol, I'm going maybe a bit more on what my new vet advised, which was to start at 1 (he was at 3 on Caninsulin before), hold for some days, test and increase as needed.
 
What is his feeding schedule like? Numbers can keep dropping without food - even more sharply when he's clearing a bounce.

Can you get another test now to see where he's at? I know it will be food-influenced, but sometimes numbers zoom up enough after food - especially at the end of the cycle, that you will feel comfortable shooting.


So on the 560 morning, a little counter intuitive I went down instead of up and that seemed to have worked?
Interesting and inexplicable, honestly. I don't see any numbers at 2U to indicate that it was too high a dose and that the higher numbers you saw on it were him bouncing from dropping too low. Unless he dropped low on the night of 9/26. Anyway, insulin is a hormone and not a drug, and a cat's insulin requirements can change from week to week depending on a lot of factors.
 
The higher numbers you see after lower numbers are what we call "bouncing". His body's reaction to lower numbers that it's not used to. Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to "clear".

Looks like he cleared the bounce last night. Nadirs can be later in bounce clearing cycles. Even as late as at the end of the cycle. Some cats will keep dropping till the end of the cycle when clearing a bounce and then head up from PS in the next cycle. Blue might be such a cat. These caregivers get used to shooting lower preshots.

Can you monitor if you shoot? Since it is the AM cycle (rather than a PM one where staying up to monitor can be tough), it's a good chance for you to give the full dose and see how he does - provided you can monitor.

Thank you for your fast response.
Yes, I am home all day today. I can monitor him. I'll do another test and then shoot. I guess I keep the dose as well.
 
What is his feeding schedule like? Numbers can keep dropping without food - even more sharply when he's clearing a bounce.

Can you get another test now to see where he's at? I know it will be food-influenced, but sometimes numbers zoom up enough after food - especially at the end of the cycle, that you will feel comfortable shooting.



Interesting and inexplicable, honestly. I don't see any numbers at 2U to indicate that it was too high a dose and that the higher numbers you saw on it were him bouncing from dropping too low. Unless he dropped low on the night of 9/26. Anyway, insulin is a hormone and not a drug, and a cat's insulin requirements can change from week to week depending on a lot of factors.

The 26th made me think of that as well, I had no data on it and then it seemed like it started to get higher afterwards. And the 560 after the 6th cycle, and the not much data on the 29th made me think I would be better off reducing a bit and waiting.

He's at 115 now, so it looks like he's going up, I'm starting to feel more comfortable to give him the full dose.

He'd already eaten twice already, he kept waking us up throughout the night.

He used to be free fed on dry food, but if I let him have wet food like that he will inhale it. So I now feed him about 50g portions throughout the day whenever he starts loudly crying and begging for it. I know we should be having a stricter schedule, but I would still like him to gain some weight, he used to be 6,4 Kg before the diabetic dry food and diagnosis and he went as low as 4,4. Now he's 4,8.
 
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He's at 115 now, so it looks like he's going up, I'm starting to feel more comfortable to give him the full dose.
Can you get a test at +1 and +2 and feed a little after both tests?

He used to be free fed on dry food, but if I let him have wet food like that he will inhale it. So I now feed him about 50g portions throughout the day whenever he starts loudly crying and begging for it. I know we should be having a stricter schedule, but I would still like him to gain some weight, he used to be 6,4 Kg before the diabetic dry food and diagnosios and he went as low as 4,4. Now he's 4,8.
Diabetic cats cannot process their food, which is why they are always starving and lose weight despite eating more. His ravenous appetite (and other symptoms like excessive thirst and urination) will reduce once he's in better numbers. Let his ideal weight be your guide to determine whether you are feeding him too much or not. In higher numbers he will be hungry all the time. Sometimes they will also beg for food when their blood sugar is dropping to lower numbers or dropping too fast.
 
Can you get a test at +1 and +2 and feed a little after both tests?
Yes and yes.

Diabetic cats cannot process their food, which is why they are always starving and lose weight despite eating more. His ravenous appetite (and other symptoms like excessive thirst and urination) will reduce once he's in better numbers. Let his ideal weight be your guide to determine whether you are feeding him too much or not. In higher numbers he will be hungry all the time. Sometimes they will also beg for food when their blood sugar is dropping to lower numbers or dropping too fast.
I've learned that, thanks to the board. That's why I let him have what he wants, about when he wants it, I know his body can not use it and his brain does not know about it.
 
Not sure. He ate some of his now regular canned food and just a dab of pork liver pate from my finger some hours ago.
But we've just recently fully switched to wet food, and this is the third time it happened, though it was the worse so far.
But we're eating good now.
 
But we've just recently fully switched to wet food, and this is the third time it happened, though it was the worse so far.
Was the switch done gradually? By slowly tapering off the old food and introducing the new food over a week or so? Sudden changes to the food can cause GI issues in some cats.

It's good that he's eating properly!
 
Was the switch done gradually? By slowly tapering off the old food and introducing the new food over a week or so? Sudden changes to the food can cause GI issues in some cats.

It's good that he's eating properly!
Yes, I was aware of such issues and took our time, did it in 7-10 days from dry to wet.
But one issue might be that we're trying different brands of wet, as he never ate wet before (just refused it) and did not know what he might or might not like. So got what I think are some good quality brands (from my signature) and we've been testing them.
 
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Poor bastard, I must have poked each ear 10 times, he just won't bleed enough, but we finally got a 138 @+2. I'll try again for +6 or +8 or so and give him a little rest till then.

@Bandit's Mom @Mary & Jude thank you both for your support!
Here is our general sticky that offers hometesting advice: Hometesting Links and Tips, and this is a recent discussion on the forum that offers some good information about testing Like so many before me, I find it impossible to draw blood to test for glucose.

As one poster mentions, it can take some time for the capillary bed on the edge of the ear to develop, so initially getting the ear to bleed can take some time. I'm not sure if you are using something to warm his ear (rice-filled baby socks that can be gently warmed in the microwave), but that often helps. You'll also see in these discussions the size lancet that's best to use at the beginning when Blue's ear is learning to bleed.

Here are the dosing methods most people on the forum follow: Sticky - Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR). You are testing enough to follow TR, which is a dosing method that has some scientific research behind it showing that it gets cats into remission (note: Jude actually went into remission on SLGS). Both dosing methods offer guidance about when to take increases and decreases. You can also follow custom dosing from your vet if you choose. But, TR and SLGS are both good dosing methods.

Finally, you might consider giving Blue a probiotic to help with the diarrhea. One that many on the forum (myself included) use is S. Boulardii + MOS.

I'm so glad that Blue was able to experience some consistent lower numbers yesterday! The numbers below 200 are healing numbers for the pancreas, so it's good he was able to spend some time in the blues. He'll likely bounce a bit since he's not used to lower numbers, but he'll eventually become accustomed to them.
 
Here is our general sticky that offers hometesting advice: Hometesting Links and Tips, and this is a recent discussion on the forum that offers some good information about testing Like so many before me, I find it impossible to draw blood to test for glucose.

As one poster mentions, it can take some time for the capillary bed on the edge of the ear to develop, so initially getting the ear to bleed can take some time. I'm not sure if you are using something to warm his ear (rice-filled baby socks that can be gently warmed in the microwave), but that often helps. You'll also see in these discussions the size lancet that's best to use at the beginning when Blue's ear is learning to bleed.
Thank you, it's not often that it happens, most of the times I do it on the first try. But every now and then I need a few tries. I don't own a microwave, and I test a bit spontaneous, he has to be sitting and be relaxed otherwise he will fight me, so I can't prepare too well beforehand. But I do try to warm his ear by hand, rubbing it. I am now also adding some antibiotic ointment which is also quite fat, so the drop forms a lot better. I tried free hand as well and the first two times were a great success, but then he didn't like tries 3 and 4 so I stopped doing it. I only have 30G size lancets for my lancing device, I am still looking for thicker. Free hand one was 28G, but they don't fit.

Here are the dosing methods most people on the forum follow: Sticky - Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR). You are testing enough to follow TR, which is a dosing method that has some scientific research behind it showing that it gets cats into remission (note: Jude actually went into remission on SLGS). Both dosing methods offer guidance about when to take increases and decreases. You can also follow custom dosing from your vet if you choose. But, TR and SLGS are both good dosing methods.
I need to start thinking which one to apply, and I should see my vet next week. For starters I just wanted to see him drop below 400+ all day, but yes, it is time to work on regulation. I'm a little intimidated by TR, though I do feel it would be a better fit. I also can not find syringes with .5 markings so I'm not sure how I would be doing .25IU dose adjustments without them. Even the 1.5IU I'm dosing now I never know if it is too much or too little.

Finally, you might consider giving Blue a probiotic to help with the diarrhea. One that many on the forum (myself included) use is S. Boulardii + MOS.
I did see Jarrow Boulardii mentioned here before, I do not have that at hand and it would take a few days to arrive, but I did start him already on a different probiotic that he had before. He had two other episodes last night so he's maybe a little dehydrated but he's eating good and I switched back to the other canned food he had no issue with.
One thing I'm not sure of is if I should be storing the food it in the fridge once I open the can or if left outside at room temperature is fine. He has approximately one and a half cans a day now (200g + 100g) split in 50g portions.

I'm so glad that Blue was able to experience some consistent lower numbers yesterday! The numbers below 200 are healing numbers for the pancreas, so it's good he was able to spend some time in the blues. He'll likely bounce a bit since he's not used to lower numbers, but he'll eventually become accustomed to them.
Thank you, so am I, he was back to his old self. He did bounce a bit, but it doesn't look that bad so far and with the spot checks I did looks like his highest was ~270.

Thank you also for all the support and good advice.
 
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