1/5 Hogan +12 148, PMPS 176, +2 158, +3 111, +4 109, +5 88, +6 76, +7 114

Hogan

Hogan

Member Since 2018
Yesterday's Post

Bounce seems to have broken.

Not sure if I'm using the term "food steering" correctly. But last night after I saw the decent sized drop at +3 PMPS (304 to 157), I got up again at +7 to see where he was (135). I took away his food at that point so I didn't have to get up again. But he woke me up at +10 and he was really, really hungry. I know that he only gets like that when his BG is low, so I tested him and he was 122 @ +10.

So at this point, I thought maybe I should give him some of his LC food, even though I'm within the 2 hour fasting window for AMPS, as I didn't want to have to shoot on a low blue number. His AMPS was then 200 after only 1.25 hours fasting, so I shot on schedule.

Did I handle this correctly? It's hard to think clearly sometimes when you are only getting one to two hours of sleep at a time! o_O
 
I've been told if you know how the LC food affects him you can sorta figure out where he may have been had he not eaten. Sometimes when Tigger goes low but its at nadir and not too early I have been encouraged to feed his regular LC food only and see how much that brings him up. So last night he hit 70 @ +6.5 and I gave him a midnight snack - about 2 oz of LC FF. An hour later he was up but only at 86. . . . by 2.5 hrs later he was 120. So, yes the insulin is wearing off some, and Tigger is prone to bouncing, but I know the LC didn't send him sky rocketing the way HC does. He had only gone up ~50 pts in 3 hours with all those variables. In my mind then you gotta imagine Hogan would not have been significantly lower had you made sure he fasted the full 2 hours. I'd believe he was still gonna read 150 or higher had he not ate at +10 cause the insulin is really wearing off then. If that is a number you feel comfortable shooting, especially when you can monitor, its not too bad. Sometimes in your above situation, I will take away half of his night time snack - like you did at +7. This way I know he has a little food to keep him from going lower but not enough to really affect him 5 hours later. Tigger is a really slow eater/grazer. It feels like he purposefully leaves 2 bites of the food just to eat them up in front of me like right at shot time with a big satisfied "I'M in charge" grin lol. (I'm sure some expert advice will come along for you as well :))
 
Moms2Tigger&Blu said:
I've been told if you know how the LC food affects him you can sorta figure out where he may have been had he not eaten. Sometimes when Tigger goes low but its at nadir and not too early I have been encouraged to feed his regular LC food only and see how much that brings him up. So last night he hit 70 @ +6.5 and I gave him a midnight snack - about 2 oz of LC FF. An hour later he was up but only at 86. . . . by 2.5 hrs later he was 120. So, yes the insulin is wearing off some, and Tigger is prone to bouncing, but I know the LC didn't send him sky rocketing the way HC does. He had only gone up ~50 pts in 3 hours with all those variables. In my mind then you gotta imagine Hogan would not have been significantly lower had you made sure he fasted the full 2 hours. I'd believe he was still gonna read 150 or higher had he not ate at +10 cause the insulin is really wearing off then. If that is a number you feel comfortable shooting, especially when you can monitor, its not too bad. Sometimes in your above situation, I will take away half of his night time snack - like you did at +7. This way I know he has a little food to keep him from going lower but not enough to really affect him 5 hours later. Tigger is a really slow eater/grazer. It feels like he purposefully leaves 2 bites of the food just to eat them up in front of me like right at shot time with a big satisfied "I'M in charge" grin lol. (I'm sure some expert advice will come along for you as well :))
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Great thorough analysis. This is a big reason why I love this board. I agree that because Hogan was late in the cycle when he got the 122, he probably would have gone up a bit more for you, but then again you never know with these kitties. I probably would have done the same thing and given a little bit to bring him up.

Hogan seems to be angling for another reduction today with all of these big drops. Hope he stays out of shark territory for you today.
Hope you get expert eyes on this :)
 
The suggestion to pick up food 2 hours before insulin shot is so that you are not potentially influencing the preshot number by carbs in the food. This is particularly important until you have a really good idea of how food influences your cat's numbers. Since you are still quite new to testing and seeing how Hogan responds to carbs, you might want to offer some zero carb treats or chicken if you find that Hogan is hungry 2 hours before shot, just until you get a better idea of how carbs influence him. Hogan was having a nice flattish cycle after +3, numbers are within meter variance, and he was quite safe at +10. Looks like he just had a late nadir.

Your AMPS of 200 may have been more comfortable for you to shoot, but could have been artificially elevated because food had been given. It is possible to run into a bit of trouble if you shoot an artificially inflated (food influenced) number, but luckily today's cycle so far looks good, especially noting you are using AT2 ;). What do you usually feed him when he gets insulin?

I understand you didn't want to have a low preshot, which is why you fed at +10 (that and he was hungry) but until you get a better idea of how Hogan responds to carbs in his food, the better option, in my opinion, would be for you to not have food-influenced preshots. Once you are able to see consistently how he responds to carbs, you can relax on this suggestion of removing food 2 hours before shots.

And remember, if you do end up getting a low preshot number, you should stall (don't shoot), don't feed and retest in 20 minutes to see if he is coming up on his own, and post on the forum for guidance.
 
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Thanks for all the explanation and advice! I feed him Dr. Elsey's and Young Again Zero Mature dry kibble. So normally when I put it down after the AMPS, he eats a couple of bites every one to two hours or so, so it's hard to really judge the effect it has. I finally have gotten him to eat Stella & Chewy's freeze dried turkey and Primal raw Turkey, but he will only eat about one cube/nugget per hour. Unfortunately, I haven't found any no carb treats that he will eat yet. Would cooked shrimp be an option as a no carb treat? He loves that.
 
Well, I figured 148 to 182 was good enough, so I went ahead and shot the full 1.75. Hopefully, that was the right thing to do!
 
You did shoot a 200 this morning, and 203 recently, 182 is not that different. When you stalled after the first test, did you not feed? What you saw at PMPS was a double dip, his number came down a bit at the end of the cycle, but not as low as your earlier nadir of 110.

I'll be around tonight, if you have supplies on hand, lots of test strips if you need, and HC food to help bring up numbers. If you decide to shoot, I'd try and get a +2 tonight, and see how that number is. I don't have experience with the food you are feeding, so that makes me a little unsure of what Hogan is doing when I look at your SS.
 
I didn't feed between the PMPS of 148 and when I rechecked 20 minutes later. However, things were a little chaotic when I did the recheck (had to hastily rearrange my plans) and by the time the 20 minutes were up, he had slipped out onto the patio and into the backyard, so I had to corral him back inside. So he wasn't scared/nervous, but he was excited from being outside after dark.

I did go ahead and shoot, so I'll get a +2.
 
I think you did well to shoot, sorry I missed that, we must have cross-posted, and then I needed to step away for a few minutes to take care of my kitties. Hopefully Hogan will give you a nice cycle like earlier today, I suggested the +2, because it might give you a better indication of what he's going to do this cycle, and help you to get ahead of a potential drop there and feed if you need to vs. waiting until +3.
 
Thanks, I appreciate the advice!

Probably the food is a bit different from everyone else. I've yet to get him off kibble (but not for lack of trying), and the main thing that works against me is that he isn't that hungry most of the time (except at 4am). So if I need to raise his BG, I give him HC treats as it's the only thing he will eat on demand. I've had a couple of lows the last few days, and I'm fine-tuning the number I give him to make sure he doesn't come up too much.
 
The +2 is 158. So I think that means I'll be up for while? ;) Should I test again at +3?

Also, I messed up his reading when I stalled. I said it was 182, but I was just checking my history and it was really 176. Things were a little chaotic, and I saw the 7 day average instead of going back to the last reading. Oh well, at least it was pretty close!
 
That's a good +2, he's coming down slowly, did Hogan just graze a bit again on his food? I think I'd do a +3 just to be safe...but so far he's doing more of earlier today's cycle vs. the crazy one on Jan 3rd :)
 
I think he did eat a tiny bit. I have a bowl with some Stella & Chewy freeze dried turkey bits sitting in water, and I just noticed one more is missing. I'll do a +3, he's pretty cooperative with the testing at least.
 
Hogan said:
I think he did eat a tiny bit. I have a bowl with some Stella & Chewy freeze dried turkey bits sitting in water, and I just noticed one more is missing. I'll do a +3, he's pretty cooperative with the testing at least.
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Glad to hear Hogan usually cooperates with the tests. I hate to suggest extra testing if not needed, it's just that I can't really gauge what carbs he has on board, and if he onsets around +3, you may see more of a drop. I can't see that Hogan had much of a food bump, so I'm just suggesting to be a bit cautious. He's looking really good today!
 
So, based on that +3, he's picking up a bit of momentum now. Since you are following SLGS, under 90 will earn a reduction. While Hogan is still in a nice low blue, if he has only just grazed a bit on his meal from 3 hours ago, I might be inclined to offer some LC food to slow him down a bit. I'm not sure what your usual feeding schedule is, whether you offer some food at +3? If you don't normally feed now, maybe you can see where he is at around +4 or +5...again, not really knowing what carbs he currently has to make use of, and if you don't feed a little snack now, I'd be inclined to see what +4 is. He may just flatten out like he has a tendency to do, but to me, seeing 111 at +3 is still early, and may suggest he has more dropping left to do.
 
I just leave the food out and he eats when he feels like it. The low carb kibble is very high calorie, so he only eats a bite or two at a time, probably every one to two hours. And then occasionally he will eat one cube of the freeze dried every two to three hours. I'll check the +4.
 
Hogan said:
I just leave the food out and he eats when he feels like it. The low carb kibble is very high calorie, so he only eats a bite or two at a time, probably every one to two hours. And then occasionally he will eat one cube of the freeze dried every two to three hours. I'll check the +4.
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Ok, I understand, it seems to be working for Hogan! Hope he continues to have a nice easy night, I'm going to be around until +4ish then will need to sign off.
 
The +4 was 109. He's leveling off or at least going slowly, so I think that's good?
 
Just saw your post, interesting, I would have thought he was flattening out too, while the +5 is just within meter variance, he did technically earn a reduction.
 
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