1/27 Minner AMPS 80 +3 72 +6 101 +10 146 PMPS 128 +2 82 +4 58

MinnerPip

MinnerPip

Active Member
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Please help, I don’t understand what is happening, and how to keep Minner safe. Here is synopsis since my last post early this morning.

- I couldn’t lift her out of the 50s last night for more than an hour at a time via feeding, which included a few very small snacks of MC (mentioned in spreadsheet notes).

- She ate after last night’s +10 of 57, and I delayed today’s AMPS by 1 hour. So the AMPS of 80 was 3 hours after her last meal and 13 hours after her prior shot.

- I reduced her dose this morning from 7.5 to 7. The AM cycle seemed promising, she surfed in the 70s during first half of cycle then got into blue the second half. Peak was 146 at almost +10, and then she dropped to 128 for PMPS.

- I thought maybe I should have gone to 7.25 instead of 7 given the numbers in AM cycle so I gave 7.25 after her PMPS of 128. This was also 11.5 hours after her morning shot.

- She got very strong action despite eating well tonight, multiple times. After the last test at +3.7, she’s back in the 50s. I let her eat some 12% FF after that along with some 3% pate.

I barely slept last night and now with this 58, it looks like I am going to be fighting with food again to try to get her up out of 50s.

Should I do a more drastic reduction?

Does her pattern look like a pancreas coming back to life?

I don’t want to skyrocket her if this is good stuff w/ her pancreas, but I’m also very aware that she’s got a sizable depot and its super scary when despite eating frequently and adding higher carbs I couldn’t get her on a steady upward path last night. I’m not comfortable waiting to see a 40 something to take a reduction given how hard its been to try to prevent even the 50s.

If I had no advice givers and I had to decide on my own, I would go back to 7 in the morning, possibly even 6.5 if I have another night feeding frequently yet still falling back to 50s. I also wonder if I should do a half dose or some similar aggressive reduction and then increase per TR to “find her new dose with nadirs in 70s”.

Thank you for helping us. I’m going to test her now that it’s been an hour since the 58 and some MC food.
 
So at +4.8 and a little over an hour since the MC FF florentine snack and some licks of beef pate 3%, she’s up 7 points to 65. I let her eat about 1/4 of one of those Churu creamy treats which I think is similar to bisque w/ tapioca starch (high glycemic index in people).
 
Minner...you're freaking mommy out, baby girl. I know someone who knows what's up is going to weigh in, but I'm with you on backing down on the dose. At the least, you might get a much-needed good night's sleep. I often wonder about surfing them with food--I mean, I see the need for food when they go too low as a reparative effort, intended to fix a too-large dose. But it seems that the insulin should be doing the work most of the time, not the caregiver feeding the dive. Does that make sense? Anyhoo, I'm sorry this is frustrating for you. And I understand. Most all of us do. You're doing such a good job with Minner--really you are. Hang in there.
 
Hi Laura, oh I’m sorry you had such a rough night with all the feeding to keep Minner safe. It’s very hard to do that over and over :blackeye:

It seems a good idea you reduced the dose. Given the depot in play, it will take a few cycles for you to see a lesser effect. And of course the first half of this cycle on the reduced dose will still be influenced by your prior dose.
Hopefully by the second half of this cycle it may be a little less strong.

I’m hoping you will get some more detailed advice about what to do tomorrow morning in terms of dosing so I will tag @Wendy&Neko and @Angela & Cleo as they may be around tonight.

Wishing you both a very safe night and I hope you both get some needed sleep:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you everyone for the support and comments. :bighug::bighug:

Marielle said:
But it seems that the insulin should be doing the work most of the time, not the caregiver feeding the dive
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Well said. Recognizing when feeding has become the primary part of the mgmt system to stay in safe zone is a critical question. It can happen slowly over days / weeks as in Minner’s case and then it feels like all of a sudden if you don’t do it your kitty is in danger zone.

So far tonight ….

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If you don't hear from someone by end of tonight....

I'm going to jump out the window with my unqualified, layman advice and tell you what I would do:

I see you are considering dropping to 6.5. I would stick with 7 and give it time... I see you went from 7.5 to 7, then right back up to 7.25. This may seem somewhat negligible when up in those higher doses, but nonetheless, we need to be consistent with Lantus and for a newly diabetic, reduce .25 when you get under 50.

I don't think the purpose of the "reduce when under 50 rule" is so strict that if you're up ALLLL night like last night and simply pumping her with higher carb food than normal to practically not let a natural reduction happen, then it's okay to reduce. If you're not sleeping night after night, reduce!

With a grain of salt,
Love, Jason and Kona
 
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MinnerPip said:
So far tonight ….

View attachment 72628
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Why so much food in those bowls? That might be overwhelming if you're just trying to give snacks to boost BG or feed the curve. For Kona, I'm pretty sure that would be a turn off, but then again she's weird. I also wouldn't want her to eat more than the 1 tablespoon either to keep her hungry for the next needed snack. Maybe try giving smaller amounts of food, it might be less intimidating?
 
Jason - Kona's Dad said:
Why so much food in those bowls? That might be overwhelming if you're just trying to give snacks to boost BG or feed the curve. For Kona, I'm pretty sure that would be a turn off, but then again she's weird. I also wouldn't want her to eat more than the 1 tablespoon either to keep her hungry for the next needed snack. Maybe try giving smaller amounts of food, it might be less intimidating?
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Thank you Jason. I think you are right — I need to go back to 7 and stick with it for several cycles to see.

Re: her food dishes. Minner is a recent dry food junkie convert. The first 4 months of her diabetes journey was getting her knuckle head to eat wet food. She is overly sensitive to texture (which is why pates are about the only thing she entertains), often chews her cud on one side like a cow, will flick any food pieces (non pate) out of her mouth with a few exceptions and usually needs encouragement to eat this stuff. She loves FF chunky but flicks the chunks so I spend time pressing and breaking them up. She only licks and doesn’t ever seem to take bites like my other cats. This causes spread. Once its spread she loses any interest. I’ve tried giving her smaller portions but the spread happens. Freshness is a thing too. I have the most luck getting her to eat a freshly opened can that has been sitting on a heating pad so its warm and softer / smoother. I leave the food out b/c if she gets lower BG she does approach the food on her own. During the transition to wet when she still ate dry too and was running consistently in 200s, there were times I would wake up to a bowl of wet food with pieces all over … like a food murder scene. Diabetic starvation causing her to be desperate and try to eat the chunks. She’s a piece of work.
 
MinnerPip said:
Thank you Jason. I think you are right — I need to go back to 7 and stick with it for several cycles to see.

Re: her food dishes. Minner is a recent dry food junkie convert. The first 4 months of her diabetes journey was getting her knuckle head to eat wet food. She is overly sensitive to texture (which is why pates are about the only thing she entertains), often chews her cud on one side like a cow, will flick any food pieces (non pate) out of her mouth with a few exceptions and usually needs encouragement to eat this stuff. She loves FF chunky but flicks the chunks so I spend time pressing and breaking them up. She only licks and doesn’t ever seem to take bites like my other cats. This causes spread. Once its spread she loses any interest. I’ve tried giving her smaller portions but the spread happens. Freshness is a thing too. I have the most luck getting her to eat a freshly opened can that has been sitting on a heating pad so its warm and softer / smoother. I leave the food out b/c if she gets lower BG she does approach the food on her own. During the transition to wet when she still ate dry too and was running consistently in 200s, there were times I would wake up to a bowl of wet food with pieces all over … like a food murder scene. Diabetic starvation causing her to be desperate and try to eat the chunks. She’s a piece of work.
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Again, SUCH a patient, good mommy!
 
50's is still safe, but it does look like it's too much work for you. If a kitty is really hard to keep up, they could be asking for a reduction. Note for any lurkers, this suggestion is for Laura (and Seth) as you are dealing with IAA kitties and a healthy dose of caution is encouraged. The combination of size of dose and possible IAA action can be intense. With Minner's size of dose, stick with 0.5 unit reductions for now. One suggestion for tomorrow, and if you need a break - it's OK to do a BCS (big chicken shot), like a half dose, to try to reduce the depot a bit. Then start the new dose tomorrow night. She will go higher, but only for a short while. Wait it out. She will recover, and hopefully so will you. :bighug:
 
Thank you again everyone. Needed the input and support.

I went with the 7.0 this morning with PS of 84. I did seriously consider the BCS and clucked around the kitchen a bit. Decided that is fallback plan if 7.0 dose today and tonight still does not get us out of the food war against the 50s.
 
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