1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +8/345

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nckitties3

nckitties3

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This is started with his 4AM shot since he's TID until something changes.

His PM was actually at noon, but due to lack of options, I put in the pattern we're used to.

Still trying to figure out how to do his SS so it still makes sense.

If I could shake the fog outta my brain ~O) ~O) Will add test results as I go, not testing as much today, I'm exhausted.

4AM AMPS 573
+4/297
Noon/+8/PMPS/588
+2/413
+4/341
+6/293
+8/345 Shot
+2/313
+3.75/310
+6/322
+8/420 Shot
+4/310
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588

To do TID on your spreadsheet, you'll need to:

Change the +8 column to Mid-day pre-shot
Change the +9 column to a Units column (copy the turquise format into it)
Renumber +10 and +11 to +1 and +2 respectively
Move the PMPS and Units columns over to allow for +3 through +7
Renumber +9 to +11 columns.

... you might want to make a duplicate of that page, wipe all the old data, re-arrange it, and label it for TID dosing.
Or copy the headings in Row1 to a row above the TID, and re-arrange those.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588

Maybe I'm still asleep but that is clear as mud! :lol:

I didn't set up his SS to start with, I'm no good with that stuff. I think Margie (?) did. My memory sux.

Let me get awake and I'll see what I can do.

I think it would be easier to have a 2nd SS for his PZI.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588

I tried duplicating and making changes, but it changes the original, which I don't want to do. I wanted a 2nd SS for his PZI.

I'll check Tech and just get another one.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588

Awwrighty then! I have a blank Google spreadsheet named Lucian PZI and have no clue how to make it look like it should.

I tried loading the one from Tech and I think it's outdated, it's not like the one we're using now.

Any help?
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +2/413

and you need a TID formatted one too.

I've got one I can share; give me a minute to get to it and get the link.

TID spreadsheet

You'll do a file save to your own account.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +2/413

I have it but can't save it, there is no 'file' to save it to, that I see.

Could it be that I use Google Chrome instead of Internet Explorer?
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +2/413

Just changed access rights; see if you can get it now.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +2/413

I answered on the post below, that I downloaded it to my documents, then uploaded to my google docs, but it was html. I'll try it again.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +2/413

don't download, try file make a copy

updated link
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +2/413

Where are you seeing 'file'? I remember back when I used IE it said file in the top left, but I don't have that in Chrome. I am so lost!
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +4/341

His numbers are going higher each cycle, comparing the last 3 cycles.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +4/341

Maybe lower each shot to 0.75 units to see if it's too much overlap.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +4/341

Why do you think that? I'm not being rude, I just don't know the reasons and want to.

I went with TID because of the massive spikes at +10. It would seem that the PZI isn't lasting long enough, to my noob brain. Is there another reason why he would do that?
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +4/341

Sometimes too much PZI equates to higher numbers, not lower. I mentioned this in my post in yesterday's thread and included a spreadsheet to look at.

I know you don't like the high numbers, Debbie, but I think you are moving really fast. If you want to do TID, then I'd divide your original dose in thirds. ( I am assuming that it what BJ meant - not give one unit every 8 hour,(which I think is what you are doing now) but instead reduce to .75 every 8 hours? Right now, his dose has increased to 1.5 and he is getting insulin every 8 hours. I'd slow down.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

I haven't increased, he's at 1 unit. So I should divide 2 U by 3 shots? Right? is that it? .75 X 3 = 2.25, rounded up to .75 per shot?

I must have missed that link from yesterday, it's been pretty draining lately. I'm sorry.

I truly am trying to understand.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Yes - total the daily dose and divide by 3. This spreads the incoming insulin, so maybe it doesn't hit as hard and any overlap helps transition between shots to reduce spikes.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

The way I figure it, he was first getting one unit twice daily, 2 units a day. Now he is getting one unit 3 times a day, right? That's an increase? So yes, I would give .75 every 8 hours for a few cycles and see what you get.

i know some people hate this, but I think breathing can not be discounted - breathe, honey, breathe. Take some time, get some rest. You just started with a new insulin that is completely different from your old one. And he may need time to adjust. As I said on the other thread, the adage that this is a marathon, not a sprint, applies not only to new diabetics but to new insulin. :-D
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Lowering Gypsy's dose was actually the only time she got close to being regulated. She'd have high numbers, big drops, bounces, etc. I dropped back to 1 unit and she dropped too! Was never more shocked. We eventually were at .2 to .4 units twice a day and she was always in low 200s preshot. Not sure why, but PZI just works like that sometimes. I know it's rough, but Sue and BJ have tons of experience. So does Misty. You just gotta give Lucian time to get used to this new chapter of the sugar dance. Never know! He might shock you with lower numbers soon! I'm certainly hoping so!!
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Perhaps I am missing something...

I don't see any evidence of overlap so far. Lucian might be dropping up to 300 points on a dose, but it looks like the PZI has pooped out by next shot time around eight hours later? I'm not seeing anything that tells me "reduce". Looks like 1u TID is a possibility....
What am I missing?
Are you thinking the high PS numbers are from bouncing?
Carl
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

@Sue - do you think I should go less, like .5 for each shot? It didn't even dawn on me that it WAS an increase, per day, not per shot. Do you think I should take him back, did that couple times before, just to make sure we didn't miss the 'best' dose. It scares me because he goes so blasted high! :cry:
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Ya'll tell me what you think. I know nothing, you're all I have to try to figure this out.

Reduce? Hold? Dose determined by ps number? By nadir? There's a lot of options and I don't know what to do. :cry:

FWIW this is his lowest +6 so far.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Car, my thought is that she is moving too fast. Yes, he is higher around +9. Is that a short term bounce or is that the insulin petering out or is the dose too low? Often we see short cycles until the dose is raised (See Simon's Mom - Joyce's comment) so it isn't always that the insulin doesn't last long enough. Before we ever got a chance to figure out which it might be with Lucian, the dose was increased on top of the TID. I could be completely wrong, but to me, it's too much too fast and too many changes too fast. I am worried that what might work and what did or didn't work will get lost.

Lately we have seen a lot of cats whose dose was increased and the numbers kept climbing - there was never any lows to bounce from or any low nadirs - but once the dose was decreased, the numbers went down. Counter to the older idea of PZi which was increase and eventually you will get a low if the dose is too high. It just isn't happening anymore.

Melissa and PJ is a decent example. We increased and increased and the numbers got redder and redder. She recently reduced and is getting pinks but no reds. Not ideal but a better overall cycle. Still have to figure out if he needs less, but the decrease helped, contrary to what should have worked…….
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

OK, Sue, thanks for explaining. :-).
Question - were those other kitters on Prozinc or compounded PZI? Only because CPZI is supposed to have a possibly shorter duration.

You know me... It's hard for me to say reduce unless I see a green followed by a big bounce. ;-)
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Lucian's PZI is from the manufacturer, BPI I think? Is that compounded?

Today he didn't drop as fast by +4 either, if that helps. Maybe the fast drop was influencing a bounce? It's so hard to tell, it's what he's always done, spike at the end of the cycle. The best he got was on Lev, then it bit the dust too.

I have to test him in 1 hr for his shot. If he is say less than 'what?' should I hold the dose? 300?400? If he is the same as it's been, should I reduce?

We have an hour, I need to decide, with all your help.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Yes the BCP is compounded. It is U100 too, right? Prozinc only comes in U40, I believe. If I am not mistaken, the CP in BCP stands for "compounding pharmacy" but I don't know what the B stands for. Somewhere on the vial or box, the word "bovine" should be there. If so, that's a giveaway that it is compounded. Prozinc is genetically engineered human insulin based.

I'll have to see what his +8 is before suggesting what dose to consider. But if it's the same as it has been, I think you could continue with the 1u.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

That's it, BCP and it is U100.

He is eating, whitefish and tuna, right now. Couldn't get him to wait, as usual. ohmygod_smile

I figured I'd test about 15 mins till 8, EST, give time for me to post and wait to hear something, since as I understand it, 15 mins doesn't make much difference either way. If I shoot at 15 mins after, not a big deal right? As far as I know anyway. I always try to be right on time, even though I've been told 15 mins either way is fine.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

15 minutes is no big deal with a "P" insulin. Not like it might have been with Lantus or Lev.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

I was told the same thing with the 'L's', as long as it was within 15, you were good. Guess he'll be ok then.

I'm so damned confused at this point I have no clue what I'm doing. confused_cat
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

I probably didn't say that right. I know with the L's, you were okay +/- 15 minutes. But tried not to be further off than that.
With a P, I don't think as much as an hour either way is a big deal. I shot between 11-13 hours apart, and never thought twice about it. Bob got his shots when I was able to give them to him. As long as his number was rising and high enough to shoot, I shot him.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

I know what you mean, no shed to deal with. I can see having to change the schedule a bit if the ps was too low. Not that I need to worry about that at this time. ohmygod_smile Or ever.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Sorry, Debbie. We aren't trying to confuse you. Having been on the forum awhile, you know that people have different approaches to this dance. And more so with PZI than the Ls because there is no protocol that says "if you get this, do this"

Carl and I love and respect each other. But we often have different approaches to PZI. Your job is to "listen" and make the choice that works for you.
 
OK now what?

I know everyone has their opinions, that's why I ask all of you to put yours in.

So what do we do about the 345? Hold, drop, wait .....need input.
 
I would not wait.
I think I would think about reducing to .75u. This shot anyway. And maybe getting a +3?

The number appears to be rising (some of that might be the food he ate a little while ago), but I think if you wait, and the insulin is "done", it'll go up pretty quickly.

And since he's dropped 300 points before on a 1u dose, then you probably don't want to see that happen tonight.

Perhaps a little less is the way to go?

My 2 cents.
 
Last cycle, he was +8/377, +9/573. I do think he needs his shot at +8, just wonder about reducing when he's showing the tiniest improvement. Aww geez. ohmygod_smile

I'm hearing the Jeopardy theme in my brain.
 
Debbie, you might see a higher number in the next hour or two because the PZI probably won't onset until then. (that's why I suggested a +3. No sense stressing over numbers you can't do anything with before the insulin kicks in ;-) )
 
Lucian has a history of extreme swings from pre-shot to nadir on the L insulins. I suspect he is doing the same with the PZI.

The test results I've seen so far suggest it is lasting only 8 hours, hence the suggestion for TID dosing, and taking the total daily dose, dividing by 3, and giving 1/3 of the total dose at each shot. I don't think there will be much overlap, if any.
 
Re: 1/25 Lucian AMPS 573, +4/297 PMPS 588 +6/293

Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Carl and I love and respect each other. But we often have different approaches to PZI.
Click to expand...

True dat. If Sue and I always agreed, there wouldn't be a need for both of us to be here. :lol:
I think we each give input based on how Bob and Oliver did with PZI. And Sue has been here longer and has helped with a lot more kitties than I have as well.

Carl
 
Actually, I've been surprised at his +2's. Didn't expect it to kick in that early.

OK, going to err on the side of caution and those with a lot more experience than I have and go with the .75. We'll see what happens. Can't get much worse at this point and it could very well make an improvement. But if I didn't, I'd keep thinking, 'what if'. That was why I reduced him several times before, even though it didn't help, just in case. Because it's a different insulin, even if it didn't help before, it may help this time. If not, we can always take him back up.

Thank you for your time and patience. Much love! :YMHUG:
 
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