1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235 PMPS 217 +4 393

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

KarenAmelia

Member Since 2012
Terra is acting and looking okay this morning despite the very big bounce. A bit of food (Wellness Before Grain Turkey) half hour before the test may have contributed but she was so hungry I couldn't make her wait. I'll need some advice on how to respond as the bounce unfolds.

I hope that folks will give guidance as to dose, since this is the sixth cycle on 2.5U. Should I increase next time or wait until bounce clears?

Negative ketones just now.

UPDATE at +6: Big drop: 300 points in 6 hours! Yikes! Terra's purring and seems okay. Her hunger pangs have subsided. All this morning she lurked around food/water/wheat grass.

The latest test, and the last I'll post this evening, is a big rise. Partly showing the fact that she ate some dry food at +2.5 (I thought since the PMPS was very low, for her, it would be helpful to even things out. Not.)

Another problem, which I'll describe. Is it related to the high numbers? What can I do to help Terra?...

The description: Terra is acting this morning like she's really hungry, and she repeatedly goes to her bowl, eats a little of the canned food, then leaves. This goes on over and over again. Sometimes she goes to the water bowl and drinks, sometimes to the little flat of wheat grass. She comes over to me and looks up imploringly, yowls pitifully, and looks with great hopefulness when I open the fridge. Clearly she is hungry but something is preventing her from eating well. I gave her the broth from cooking chicken livers and she drank a lot of that.

To be certain it wasn't finickyness, I opened a new can of another kind of food, and she ate a bit. I changed the bowl (I'm learning all the tricks :? ) and she ate a little more. But overall something is keeping her from eating even though she wants to eat.
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 BOUNCE!

Big Bounce Terra! Come on down pretty girl. Those bounces are tough, but Mr Liver is just letting you know he is still there. It may take 72 hours to clear a bounce, but it looks like last time it took Terra about 24 hours from your ss. The food 1/2 hour before probably didn't help with the AMPS. It is so hard when they are telling you they are starving. You might try some boiled chicken breast as a treat. It's pretty much carb free so it won't mess with the numbers.

Sounds like Terra's tummy is a little upset. It looks like you gave 1/4 pepcid yesterday. You might see if that helps again today and see if that helps her.

Hope you have a great day!!
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 BOUNCE!

When in relation to feeding should I give Pepcid? Since meat takes a lot of acid to digest, I don't want to neutralize her digestion of her meal!

Also, I have a bunch of baked chicken that is pretty fatty. Is it bad to give her that? Do fats complicate things? She just ate her fill of that chicken, since she wouldn't eat her canned food.

Also, I hope that folks will give guidance as to dose, since this is the sixth cycle on 2.5U. Should I increase next time or wait until bounce clears?
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 BOUNCE!

I am not real familiar with the use of pepcid. It sounds like Terra is a little nauseous since she will eat a little and turn away and acts like she is hungry. Hopefully someone who uses pepcid will come along and answer your question.

I do give baked chicken, but just the inside breast meat that doesn't have near as much fat and is all meat. I usually buy a bag of chicken breasts and boil them. If you put some in the freezer you can just pull out as needed. Tarragon loves ground beef which can be fatty. I brown it and then rinse it really well with hot water and he eats it right up.

You definitely want to wait for the bounce to clear to increase the dose.
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 BOUNCE! DOSING GUiDANCE REQUESTED

When Terra was diagnosed, did you have a full lab panel done? I know you've mentioned being concerned about kidney issues. Were her kidney values off?

How about trying this strategy? If you pulverize some dry food, you can then sprinkle it on Terra's canned food. Maybe that will entice her to eat. Another option is FortiFora. FortiFlora is a probiotic. Many of us use it if our cats are having poo problems. However, it has a distinctive aroma and most cats love the stuff. You will probably have to order it on line. I linked the Amazon site but I've gotten it from EntirelyPets and PetFood Direct, as well.

If you use Pepsid, you give it 30 min. before feeding. I don't know if Terra sounds nauseated. It sounds more like she's being finicky.

As for dose, you want to wait for a bounce to clear before raising the dose. It can take up to 72 hours for a bounce to clear.
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 BOUNCE! DOSING GUiDANCE REQUESTED

Some kitties find parmesan cheese enticing. I was skeptical, but Weezer really went for it. Just a sprinkle on her food and she’s willing to give up the finicky kitty scene.
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 BOUNCE! DOSING GUiDANCE REQUESTED

Hi guys .. what a bounce this morning terra! Glad to hear she is feeling pretty good despite the high numbers .. Glad you are keeping up on the ketone testing .. No advice from me on the food issues .. Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235! DOSING GUiDANCE REQUESTED

Hi Karen:

Just a couple quick thoughts for you...

Although Terra might be hungry within that two hours prior to her shot, it's best not to feed unless she is really low (40s). Feeding that late in the cycle with even something as low %calories from carbs as the BG Turkey can affect her BG by pushing it up. If Terra is one of those lucky ones that gets a second dip from lantus, it could preclude the dip. So your suspicions are correct that her AMPS this morning could have been affected by feeding. While this is not a safety concern at these high numbers, if she was lower (say 80) and you fed her 30 mins before her shot, it could cause her BG to rise so that you think you are shooting a higher number. Then she "could" come back down on you quickly after shot time once the food wears off. It's just a caution.....we like to be sure the number we are shooting is not food influenced.

Have you had her teeth checked lately or had any bloodwork done? I'm wondering if there is something causing her pain and making her not want to eat. The other possibility is that if you are giving her pepcid because you know she has an acid tummy (e.g. she is vomiting clear foamy liquid), then her having to reach down to eat could be a problem. Usually for kitties with acid tummies, it's best to elevate their feeding bowls. I have a CKD kitty that I give pepcid to and his food and all the water bowls are elevated. I just buy a pkg of the Ziploc storage bowls that are about 4" deep and over turn them and put the bowls on top of them.

Also....could we please ask that instead of editing your first post with additional questions, could you please add them at the bottom of your condo so we don't miss them. I know you put them in red which does catch our attention but by adding them at the bottom (just hit "post reply") then we have an idea of "sequence" of events and time that you asked. Thank you so much! And thanks for the profile :-D :-D :-D
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235! DOSING GUiDANCE REQUESTED

hi karen! nice mid-cycle number for terra!

another trick to try is oregano sprinkled on the top of her food. it's related somehow to catnip and many cats will eat it.
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235 PMPS 217

Yikes, what a drop from this am! I realize now, after giving the shot, that I should've waited and done another test to make sure she was on the way up. Those numbers are still above normal, I know, but for Terra they're really low. I'll have to monitor her closely this evening. Since she is being finicky again about canned food I gave her some dry just now. Afraid for her not to eat when she's dropped in BG so much in 12 hours. Encouragement appreciated!
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235 PMPS 217

I know you're nervous about the drop in numbers. If you can get a test at +10 or +11, it will tell you if the pre-shot is a dropping number.

I'd also do what you can to not feed dry. It can inflate the numbers and it sticks around forever. It's also like giving an alcoholic just a shot of booze for the day. It's not helping Terra to get weaned off. In actuality, what you're doing is intermittently reinforcing her refusing canned food by giving her the dry. Intermittent reinforcement is the most powerful way to keep a behavior in place. You'd be better off following Dr. Lisa's recommendations regarding transitioning Terra off of dry and onto canned.
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235 PMPS 217

Thanks Sienne, but Dr. Lisa does acknowledge that diabetic cats are a different beast - that transitioning involves some hunger (she says not more than what - 24 hours?) and I thought that fasting for a diabetic cat was the worst thing. I'm not all that clear about whether it's bad all the time for an FD cat or only when BG is getting down close to the hypo border. Please illuminate.

I really don't get it: Terra's food fickleness is completely unpredictable. It's literally something that changes from morning to noon to night. This evening she wouldn't eat either of the two canned foods I set out that she ate with such relish yesterday, and earlier today she was eating them, or lapping up liquid mixed with them, and yet this morning she also preferred the dry. I think that I read somewhere that cats follow their noses a lot for food interest, so I have been cleaning the dishes or putting food into new , clean dishes in case she is responding to some smell on the bowl from older food. Do I sound completely nuts?
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235 PMPS 217

Nah. You don't sound nuts. You sound like a good cat mom.

My thought about transitioning was more that if you know Terra will eat dry, it's better to mix the dry with canned and gradually decrease the proportion of dry. If Terra thinks that by holding out and refusing canned she'll get dry (and that's what in fact happens), by giving her the dry you're reinforcing her behavior. Better to give a little bit of dry (either pulverized and sprinkled on top or some whole kibble that you mix in) and reduce the amount.

Are you warming Terra's food? If you're putting the cans that she's refusing in the refrigerator, when the food is cold it's less smelly. Warming it in the microwave or adding hot water will make the food smell better. Adding something smelly, like parmesan cheese or a bit of fish oil (if Terra isn't sensitive to fish) may also help.

Just out of curiosity, are you using a scented dish liquid? Cats really don't like citrus smells or it could be the general scent of the dish soap that she's reacting to.
 
Re: 1/24 Terra AMPS 543 +6 235 PMPS 217

Wow, the amazing unfolding of cat knowledge! I'm learning so many helpful tidbits, like the fact that cats don't like citrus smells, that they like Parmesan chees, and that you can use antacids made for humans, etc. And pulverizing dry food - I tried that tonight and it got her interested for a few bites of the canned. I'm now trying the approach that I don't need to be a short order cook every hour; she can wait a few hours between feedings and maybe that will help her eating habits. I will try that for the next 24 hours.

Forti flora on the way! I will see how that helps. I am speculating that the good suggestions about tooth problems may be laid to rest for the moment , since it seems unlikely she'd avoid soft food because of mouth problems but eat the crunchy stuff.

The last BG is puzzling: 393 for PM +4. Hmmm. At least, I know she survived the 500s and even the maxed out >600, so I'm not panicking over this relatively low number. Some of it is from the fact that she ate a tablesp or two of dry food at +2.5. I have to practice tough love.
 
i was looking at terra's profile because of sienne's question - it says you give her about 1-1.5TB about 5 times a day. is that in addition to the dry food?

how much does she weigh? is her weight stable or is she gaining/losing weight?

punkin LOVES fortiflora. can't get enough of it. i hope it encourages her to eat.

oh - and perhaps it will reassure you to know that a non-diabetic cat's BG runs 40's - 120ish. terra is absolutely not in any danger in these numbers today.
 
I'll reply here but also put this same reply on my new condo in case.. I don't know if folks move on each day and don't return to the previous day's condos.

Terra's eating habits are nowhere near consistent. She has been a free feeder for her whole 15 years. In this transition, she is proving completely unpredictable, and yet I try to crack the code :smile: I have been responding to her hunger by feeding every hour or couple hours since she is so newly diagnosed and was pretty thin at the start. She has put on a little more mass -her spine doesn't feel so prominent. I was putting out about a tablespoon at a time but it turns out that she ends up eating about 1/2 of that or less, and then sometimes refuses to eat what's left in the bowl. Sometimes I refresh the old food (only hours old so not gross) with a little new. I know she needs around 150-180 cals/day, as her weight has always been 10-12 pounds. And that this translates to about one of the larger cans of food (5 oz or so) or about 2/3 cup of dry food. She doesn't eat anywhere near an entire can, and that is why I thought I might supplement with dry food. I am trying to not give dry food but when she refuses to eat the canned I have felt I had no alternative...yet. I tried pulverizing some of the Iams yesterday and sprinkling and it helped! And fortiflora is on its way.

I don't think she's eating as much as she needs to, but I haven't been good about quantifying it. One complicating factor is that she eats a little, then goes away then returns within a couple minutes to eat more. And there are dogs in the house. So..all of this is a great trial and I'm chipping away at the obstacles little by little. Lucky I'm here a lot during the day and can observe and try to see what works. I'm taking all of the suggestions that come in and trying them out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top