1/22 Lucian PMPS/HI, +3/456, +6/318

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nckitties3

nckitties3

Member Since 2013
Yesterday's Condo


Morning all,

Lucian's at 200 this morning, wonderful! Of course, this tells me he was probably in the blue during the night.

I guess I am going to have to start setting a clock during the night, I was out by 9 and I know I need night time readings. I'll have to figure out something.

Lord, I wish I had help here at home, the help I have on the board is immeasurable and I thank you and Lucian thanks you, more than you know. If ya'll hadn't kept telling me I could do it, I would have given up!

He threw up his food this morning. I didn't mix it with water, I cut it in little cubes and put it on a plate, like I did yesterday and he liked it and was satisfied longer, since he was getting more bulk and not just water off it. But maybe it was too heavy? Or he was too hungry and ate too fast, since he hadn't eaten since 7:45 last night? Maybe I'll rotate between 'soup' and cubes. Any suggestions are welcomed.

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200 - Yay! Food/throwing up Question

What are you feeding that's in cubes? Most of the low carb food is pate style.

As long as Lucian is still willing to eat, I wouldn't worry about a barf. Most of us feed several smaller meals since it's easier on the pancreas. If you're not already doing so, it may be something worth considering.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200 - Yay!(Food/throwing up Question)

LOL sorry, I should have explained. I use 1/2 can FF LC, slice it and cut it in little cubes, I tried that to see if they could then eat it, without having to drink it, since 1 of my civvies is not eating well on canned.
Normally when Lucian 'drinks' his food, he is hungry in 2-3 hrs, but yesterday, when I did it like that, he was good for 4.5 hrs. So I did it like that before his PM shot, no prob, and then this morning he threw it up. Maybe mornings would be good for drinking his breakfast? He hasn't thrown up since he's been home and rarely did before that.
I think he was really hungry, it had been so long and just ate too fast.

Yes, he has small meals, 1/2 3oz can, 4-5 times a day.

Here's the conversation I had yesterday, trying to get some hints on getting my civvie to eat canned and the reason I cubed it and put it on a plate:

from yesterday
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200 - Yay!(Food/throwing up Question)

That helps!

Also, keep in mind that as numbers get better, a diabetic's appetite decreases. Also, with canned food, there's less "filler" so your cats may not need as much food. You may want to figure out how many calories per day your guys need and base how much you're feeding on that rather than basing your estimate on what portion of a can they're eating.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200 - Yay!(Food/throwing up Question)

Hi guys .. oh those nighttime spot checks can be rough .. we had three alarm clocks going when we were doing it with mocha, including one clear across the room :lol: Sorry to hear about the barfing this morning, hoping it was just a scarf and barf incident .. have a great day guys!
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562 Still spiking-food?

Still concerned about this midway spike... will test again in a couple hrs, maybe it takes him longer to reach his insulin peak?
Either way, too dang high!

Also, was just double checking carbs in his food, the 9 lives tuna and egg is an 8! THAT'S what he had for breakfast, could it be spiking him like that? Maybe he IS that sensitive, being unregulated? EDIT No, that's not what he had for breakfast, it was a 1. So much for that theory. ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile But he did have some at +5.5 for lunch. I know, I'm grasping at straws!

ohmygod_smile I must have mistakenly looked at something else, I was sure it was under 6, thought it was a 4 , he only eats one that is a 5, all the rest are listed as 4,3 or 1, so that's outa here! There are too many in the range that I want for him, to allow this one.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562 Still spiking

Lucian probably hit blue last night and it made him bounce today. The bounce will clear, you just have to wait it out. Look at Susie and Elian's condo. The same thing is happening to her today.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562 Still spiking

It's been said, your kitty didn't turn diabetic overnight and certianly won't go into remission overnight either. Try to dig up some patience and remain diligent and consistent. Baby steps..baby steps... Good luck in getting up in the night for testing - ugh! It sounds like you have some additional challenges to consider, but you'll find a way. You're doing an absolutely fantastic job with Lucian!
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562 Still spiking

I know, dig out the 'patience pants'! I'm trying, I really am!

Thanks to all of you!

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562 Still spiking

just wanted to stop by and say hi and let you know you are doing awesome! Lucian is probably bouncing which is very common. Getting those nighttime tests is hard but it will help to know where he is at. Good to hear he is eating multiple meals throughout the day. I feed Scrabble 5-7 times a day that is including his treat snacks. Hang in there you are doing great!!
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI Again!

This is crazy! I swear, his numbers look like he got a fur shot this morning and I am positive he got his dose! No dampness, no smell and because it has happened a couple times, I check it thoroughly for fear of doing it again. And I've seen him in his water bowl 3 times this afternoon, so I know he's high. He rarely goes to it any more, except when he's up there.

What to do??

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI Again!

First - don't panic! He's probably just bouncing from the lower numbers last night. He bounced on the 20th and he came back down into good numbers on the 21st. He'll come back down again. You just have to be patient.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI Again!

I know that every day he's up in the high numbers increases his risk of organ damage and it worries me so! I lost a beloved boy 2 yrs ago from renal failure, I don't want to lose Lucian too.
Heck, I don't care about remission, I just want him safe. :sad:
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI Again!

Hey, Debbie -

Nice meeting you today! My first thought is that Lucian is bouncing from a number his body thought was low. Most, if not all, of our cats bounce like rubber balls. You have no idea how many talks I've had with Hershey about these blues/greens are his friends, but he doesn't listen. kids! :roll:

As far as the different % carbs, Hershey seems to be pretty sensitive. He usually eats 4% and when his numbers drop, he'll usually come back up when fed Oreo's 7%. So, yes, sometimes it can make a big difference.

I know that due to your health, nighttime tests aren't always possible. You can only do what you can do. I know the higher numbers are distressing, especially because of Ripley, but you need to remind yourself that this is a whole new ballgame with different rules. You're doing great!

I hope you have a relaxing evening. Read a good book or visit people on the forum. You'll meet lots of neat people here. :-D

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI Again!

I'm gonna make coffee in a little bit, so I can stay up later, I know I need those nighttime numbers, but it's hard for me.

I so enjoyed meeting you and Doug today, hope you gave him my message.

Girl, I'm just so worried about Lucian, being high is one thing, being SO high it won't give me a number, really puts me over the edge! :sad:
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ STIL

OK, I'm buggin, in a big way!
Need some feedback, I'm considering upping the dose come morning, I'll be up the better part of the night for testing, made a pot of coffee, so there won't be any sleep for a while.
This is really scaring me! Someone tell me he'll be ok, please? :cry:

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Just had his PM shot, I'm so on edge, it's obvious he doesn't feel well, he's very lethargic, not eating as much, drinking much more.

Got to get his BG down.

Need some experienced minds, please.

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Hi Debbie. I know it's scary to see Hi on the meter, but bouncing is normal at this stage. And bouncing can make him feel a little yucky, too. I wouldn't consider increasing his dose without getting advice from some of the experienced members. You don't know how low he went last night and you could be putting him in danger by increasing without more nighttime tests. Now that you have the question mark on your post, I'm sure some more experienced members will be around shortly to give you some advice.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

he'll be ok, ups and downs are part of the journey, unfortunately. Just keep testing for ketones and if he ever tests positive for ketones, let us know.

I would love to recommend a dose increase, but I've been studying your spreadsheet and can't in good conscience do that right now. It looks like he had some sort of breakthrough last night, but we don't really know what he did with that nice preshot. If Lucian had surfed in the 200s all night I would be fine with an increase, or if he had dropped to mid 100s and is bouncing from that, I would be ok with an increase. But if he dropped under 100 and is bouncing from that, then I wouldn't increase. Since we don't know what he did last night, I think what we need to do is wait for this bounce to clear out (can take up to 72 hours), then see where he goes from there.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

I will know tonight and I can't imagine him going too low while being over 600 during the day.

Has anyone else had this happen? How long did you wait to increase the dose? How long should you wait when the BG is dangerously high?

I'm afraid of the damage it's doing, that I'm not aware of.

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

72 hrs of 600+ ?? I'll have a stroke! I'll be worse off than him! If it wasn't so scary, that would be funny!
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

the bounce is caused by counterregulatory hormones, which will clear out on their own.

If you increase the dose at the same time the hormones are clearing, you can end up with fast momentum from the bounce clearing, at the same time as possibly fast momentum from a dose increase, and fast momentum + more fast momentum can easily become too much to be able to put on the brakes. You don't want a hypo. All you can do is wait out the bounces. Then when it starts to clear, do the best you can to get spot checks during that cycle and the following cycle so you can see where he goes.

Take a look at other peoples' spreadsheets when they first started out. You'll see lots of 400-500 and some cats with 600s. Gradually the bounces will get lower and shorter until one day they disappear.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Hi Debbie & Lucian,

Those are wise words from Libby, who tells it like it is! Just keep in mind that the high numbers you are seeing now are temporary. For organ damage to occur, Lucien would have to be in very high numbers for a long, long time.
So relax and don't worry. Try to have a nice evening, You are doing fine!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Libby is extremely experienced and one of the people I go to when Gabby throws a monkey wrench at me. I know I've been a PITA about the evening checks. Libby explained the reasoning eloquently. If Lucian didn't bounce off of the 218 yesterday, he likely is bouncing off of a PM cycle number.

Get a before bed test. If the numbers are still high, get a good night's sleep.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

I have looked at, at least, 20+ SS and here is what I see:

Whenever they 'bounce', it is mostly 'out of nowhere', amid lots of lower numbers, sometimes for weeks at a time.
There seems to be only 1 or 2, then back to normal.
The vast majority, that I saw, had other medical issue and medications.
None of them were consistently high, for days on end.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you know of another cat that has done like Lucian, with consistently high numbers. I'm open to anything at this time.

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Lucian may have seen lower numbers, too, but without more data, you can't say for sure. ECID isn't just a motto, it's true - Every Cat IS Different. But, in many ways, every cat is the same. Their bodies have to adjust to seeing lower numbers and figure out how to do that. Hershey has not been diagnosed with any other medical conditions, but has done a fair amount of bouncing in the last year. Glancing at his SS, it may not seem that way, but that could be because there are a lot of squares of data filled in. And, there's never a way to predict how long the bounce will last.

In a few months, when you look back on these days, you will see how far he has come and it will make you a good candidate to encourage other newbies! :-D

Have a great night -

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Take a look at my Pepper's spreadsheet. I'm only just now getting him to a dose that's getting him into better numbers. He drops for a day and then he bounces and he's high for two days. But he goes back down again.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Hopefully the evening tests will give you the answers...they'll either tell you he's bouncing, or he needs more juice.

You ARE doing a great job, and you WILL get there!!!
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Nancy, I am amazed at the dose Pepper is on, and his numbers still being as high as they are. I also see he's a big kiity, too, so would need more than the average size cat. I'm aware that weight plays a role in dosing. Lucian is only about 7 pounds, he's thin, lost weight over the past couple months, which was one of the symptoms that sent us to the vet.

I am just so scared for him, so afraid he's going to have other complications if I don't get his numbers down.

I'm on my 4th cup o' joe and plan a +3, +5 & +7, if I can stay awake long enough.

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Did you read Sienne's post? She said to get a before bed test (usually that's a +2 or +3) and if he's still high, then just go to bed and get a good night's sleep. He probably will still be high tonight, since he's bouncing. When the bounce clears and his numbers start to come down again, tomorrow maybe, then I think that would be a good time to get a +6 or so at night if you can and see how low this dose is taking him.

Pepper is what they call a high dose cat. Most cats don't need that much juice.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

nckitties3 said:
I have looked at, at least, 20+ SS and here is what I see:

Whenever they 'bounce', it is mostly 'out of nowhere', amid lots of lower numbers, sometimes for weeks at a time.
There seems to be only 1 or 2, then back to normal.
The vast majority, that I saw, had other medical issue and medications.
None of them were consistently high, for days on end.
Debbie and Lucian
Click to expand...
Hi Debbie :-D Gobbles has had lots of bounces and some high numbers at times --take a look at his SS
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Hi Debbie,

Some cats just seem to like doing what we call doing the Rainbow. On the 19th, Neko started the day at 576 (ate bread starter the night before ohmygod_smile ) but we saw a 68 at night. We hadn't seen any blacks since last July, so that was a pretty disappointing start. She's also earned deductions on days she's started in the red. Fortunately her liver is finally starting to get used to better numbers, and the last few deductions have been from the blues. Last March through June we saw a lot of black as she started getting into better and better numbers. Neko is a high dose cat but I've seen SS of cats who get between 1-3 units that also get black. I've also seen cats with a lot of black at the start, then they hit a good dose and that is the last of it. But without a +2 or +3 at night (or whatever it is just before bed), you can't tell why the high numbers.

I know those numbers are hard to see. Been there. They will get better.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

I made the commitment to stay up because everyone says I need a few nighttime tests, so I'm going to get them.
I think +3 +5 +7 should cover it, I want to know exactly what his numbers are doing and if I have to do it again tomorrow, I'll do it again.
I drank half a pot of coffee, the chance of me going to sleep before 3 is slim at best.
I'll set my clock and have made arrangements for my son to call me at 7:30 am, just in case I don't hear the alarm.

I AM going to get his nighttime numbers! Come h*ll or high water! :smile:

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Poor Gobbles, he's just all over the place isn't he? Come down Gobbles and stay there! :smile:

I am just overwrought about Lucian, to the point of it making me physically ill. My furbabies are really all I have and it tears me up when something is wrong with them. I have been so blessed really, it has been very rare that one of my pets ever got sick. Lucian has been sick one time in his life, with a 'sore throat' back in 2006.

I'm going to try to catch him tonight or tomorrow and check for keytones again, haven't been able to catch him for a couple days.

Need to try to find something on TV, keep me occupied. ~O)

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Debbie --

Part of this dance is to conserve your energy. There will be plenty of nights when you'll absolutely need to stay up to monitor. it's like the song lyrics -- you gotta know when to hold 'em and you gotta know when to fold 'em. If you want to get a +2 and one more test, that's fine. Just don't stay up all night. When Lucian is flirting with low greens, you'll be glad for a good night's sleep the night before (or after).

I've been known to comment that sleep is vastly overrated. Seriously. Pace yourself.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Tonight's a 'given', after all the coffee. :lol:

To be sure, I compared the ReliOn Prime and the ArKray Vital (which I have not used on Lucian yet), they fall 2 points apart, on me. I also checked them both with the glucose solution, they both fell within acceptable limits. So, at least I know the meters are functioning properly whichever one I use. I also know that MY BG is way too high! :lol: yeeahh, that's what stress will do! Took my Metfomin, the rest of my meds can wait.

This is something that needs to be done, I understand that, but it is the only way I can do it. I will have to stay up, I cannot GET up once I take my night meds, which I am foregoing tonight. If I have to do it later down the road, then fine, but I want it out of the way for now.

I'm afraid there is something else going on that may be causing the high numbers and I have no $$$ for another vet visit. I don't know what I'll do if I can't get his numbers down. That's why it is so important for me to do anything/everything that I can. Seriously? If he has to go back, I'll be selling all my jewelry at the local pawn shop and I don't have much to sell! :sad:

This 'rock and hard place' is getting really tight! :-x

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

((((Debbie)))) I know we sound very inconsistent, telling you to get more night checks but then telling you to go to bed tonight. Seriously, he might drop tonight and that would be great, but in all honesty, if you stay up super late just to get more 600 tests you're just going to be even more stressed. Usually once they hit that range, they stay there for a little while, so I don't think he is going to drop dangerously tonight.

I know it's hard when this is all new to you. There are a bunch of us who have been here for a long time, and we can "see" some of the typical patterns that you don't know how to recognize yet. That's ok, that's why we're here. ;-) You may (and probably will) wake up to a number that is significantly lower than 600, but it's probably not worth staying up tonight to watch it happen. True, any data is good data, but tomorrow will probably be a better cycle to stay up and watch. Tonight's cycle will probably not be a typical one (V-shaped, with a drop into nadir then a rise into preshot). Tonight will probably be either high/flat, or high and then start a slow slide into a lower AMPS. Tomorrow night might be more interesting, if the bounce starts to clear. I think Sienne's suggestion is good, to get one more test tonight right before bed - if it surprises you by being much lower, then sure, stay up and see what happens. If he's still high, go to bed and try again tomorrow.

Of course, if you really want to stay up and test, I'm not going to stop you (I'm a reformed testaholic. LOL!). As I said, any data is good data, and if it makes you more comfortable then go for it.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

Lucian was 200 at AMPS, so you know the Lantus is working well for him. If he bounces afterwards, it doesn't mean anything is wrong.
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

High bg numbers canbe cause by infection or maybe a bad tooth. Did you try to smell Lucian's mouth for any bad breathe?
If my Rosy is on HI at PMPS, I'll sleep happily that night & prepare for something more exciting the next cycle. But that's me :lol:
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/600+ Pls

456 @ +3.......beats seeing that blasted 'HI".

I want to stay up for at least a +5, then I'll decide what to do, depending on that. Nothing has given me any idea where his nadir is.

He doesn't have bad breath and the vet always says his teeth look great, along with the other furkids, even my 16 yr old.

One other thing, he's getting a couple FD liver treats every couple hrs to hold him over. Normally he doesn't eat at night, I'm asleep, but since I'm up, he wants a little something. After his PM +3, I gave him .75oz FF (1/4 can) snack, cause he was hungry. His BG's are probably a little lower at night than what I am going to see, because he is eating a little bit.

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/22 Lucian AMPS 200, +5.25/562, +8.5/HI, PMPS/HI, +3/45

(((Debbie)))

Just dropping in to give you some support. I know you are anxious tonight to see if he comes down and now that you have caffeine on board, you have no choice ;-) But we also learned long ago, if the trend is high...go to bed. I am also a testaholic but I take every chance I can get to sleep at night....or nap during the day ;-)

Glad to see he is coming down a bit. Bounces can be nerve wracking and I know they are hard to ignore.....but that's the best advice we can give about them.
 
+6/318.......don't know if I'll try another tonight, we'll see.

Was going to go for a +5, but he ate after his +3 test, so I waited another hour. Really doesn't tell me how he's running without eating during the night though.

Keytone test NEG @ +6

Debbie and Lucian
 
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