1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520

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nckitties3

nckitties3

Member Since 2013
I have to leave here at 11 for an appt at my attorney's. If I can get there, I'll stop on the way home for syringes.

I don't know how to do a page for him. Everything is in my signature, except he's a 16 yr old, neutered male with no past health issues. I'll put that on there. Only been sick once in his life about 10 yrs ago, a cat sore throat.

I understand another poster who can't get night time readings, I can't either due to my own health issues and meds. Midnight is the latest I can stay up and that's hard. If I can't do what needs to be done, between 7:30 am and Midnight, then I'm screwed and so is Lucian, that's all I got. It's only because I lost my job, I got that.

I really thought he'd come down with the low carb diet, which is why I kept hanging on and not upping his dose before now, but he's running too high. I don't want to raise his dose at night, because I can't test him, but maybe tomorrow morning?
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3.5/451

He did eat a few minutes before this +3 test, but thought I would do it before I left.
I also found that the tan lancets must be bigger, had no problem the last 3 times and this time was even with a cool ear.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451

If by a "page" you mean a Profile, I've included the link. If you have a problem with the set-up, send a note to Marje. She's a pro at it.

No one can predict what our kitties are going to do at what time of day or night. I'm not sure when your shot time is but if you're able to get at least one test at night, then that's fine. One consideration is your shot times. If midnight is your +2 or +3, I'd encourage you to think about moving your shot time earlier so you don't end up bumping into late night hours early in the cycle. When I first started out, I had to reconsider my shot times for just that reason.

BTW, the candle and rainbow icons are used to indicate a kitty that's died. I did a big gasp when I saw the candle. When you have a minute, could you remove the candle?
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451

Oh my gosh the candle scared me too.....glad Lucian's ok. This takes a while to figure out doses and to clear them from infections etc. Hang in there.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451

OMG please remove the candle, I did the same as Sienne I thought oh no!!!! You are doing great so far. If you can get one night time test that would be sufficient even if it is a +2. What time is your shot time? Hope you are able to get the syringes today.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451

You gave me a heart attack!!! candles and rainbows are for kitties that passed! Thank goodness he is ok

How to do a profile: Download mine or someone you like (scrabbles above is pretty good) to your desktop. Edit it for Lucian. Upload to google docs and add to your signature like you did for your SS! And check out Siennes instructions above too.

As regards night time readings, I see you are already getting PMPS+4 sometimes which is great! Maybe sometimes (weekends?) you can get up a little early and do a PMPS+10 or +11? Also those times when he wakes you up at night.... Poke him then! It might teach him not to do that LOL and also gives you data since you are awake anyway.

Patience my dear, it can take time to find the right dose and for him to adjust. Its actually good you arent working right now.. you can do some extra testing which will help immensely.

Sienne - dose change thoughts?
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451

I SWEAR it was a question mark............that's NOT even close to the candle! I have no idea! Although I have had a lot of trouble with the site in the last couple days, timing out, etc. But I would NEVER do that! I'm so sorry it scared everyone, it wasn't me. There's no way, that I know of, that I could have inadvertently marked that. I know what it means!

Debbie and Lucian
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451

+7 @515 not good.

I did get syringes, but had to get 30 gauge, they were out of 31, will it be ok or will it hurt him? He already acts like the larger lancet hurts. :sad: And I'm still having problems with the left ear........after 2 pokes, I just go to the right one and I hate to keep doing that, but I don't want to just keep on poking his left ear and hoping.

I swear, his numbers look like he didn't get his shot this morning. :sad:
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515

Debbie, welcome to LL! No worries! It's happened before and we recover. :lol: Mostly, we're just glad that Lucian is still with us. You're doing a great job. This is a lot to absorb and it's all kind of overwhelming at times. I'm glad you're here, it's the best place for you and Lucian. Did you smell any Lantus this morning or feel any wetness on his fur? That's typical of a fur shot. Don't worry, it happens sometimes and the kitties recover.
Liz, Zener's other mom (I sign my posts and Anne doesn't)
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515

I can't smell anything but rice sock, even when I'm away from the apartment, but I didn't see or feel any wet spot, I always rub him a little, just in case it hurt.

To everyone, I'm sorry I posted more than once, I seem to have a knack for screwing up lately. Sorry. Can I delete a post? Is that possible?
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515 Increase dose?

I know Lucian needs a dose increase, it's obvious by his numbers for the past few days. My question is - how much? My guess is .5. If there is a reason to try something different, please tell me. This is my 1st attempt with a syringe and I really don't know if I can do .25. If need be, I'll make coffee and stay up all night, not like I have a job to go to, I just won't take my meds. Does anyone think a .5 increase is too much. I have 40 min until I have to shoot him and really would appreciate input.

Thank you.

Debbie and Lucian


I'm sorry to be such a PITA!
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515 Increase dose?

nckitties3 said:
I understand another poster who can't get night time readings, I can't either due to my own health issues and meds. Midnight is the latest I can stay up and that's hard.... but he's running too high. I don't want to raise his dose at night, because I can't test him, but maybe tomorrow morning?
Click to expand...
Hi, I'm probably the other poster you're referring to, re: night readings--I, as well, have various health issues and meds that I MUST take at night (and one basically knocks me cold). Gobbles gets his shots at 7 AM & 7 PM...so I can get a +5 reading at night, but that's the limit. And I now have an alarm clock next to my bed which goes off at 6:45 AM (I normally sleep to anywhere from 8-9). So the 7:00 AM/PM change works for Gobbles & myself. And high numbers? I know all about that! It may make you feel better if you take a look at Gobbles' SS. I add water to each and every can Gobbles' eats which makes it a gravy-like meal. Feel free to PM me. Kat
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451

nckitties3 said:
I did get syringes, but had to get 30 gauge, they were out of 31, will it be ok or will it hurt him? He already acts like the larger lancet hurts. :sad: And I'm still having problems with the left ear........after 2 pokes, I just go to the right one and I hate to keep doing that, but I don't want to just keep on poking his left ear and hoping.
Click to expand...

I have this same situation with my kitty. His right ear has always bled better than his left. Occasionally, I'll give his left ear a try, but after multiple pokes and/or failure to squeeze enough blood, I end up just using his right ear anyway. :lol: Are you doing it free-hand or using a lancet pen? If you're using a lancet pen, most of them allow you to adjust penetration depth. If yours does, try dialing it down to a more shallow level.

For raising the dose, I'm not skilled enough to say whether or not you should increase the dose, but I'd be more inclined toward a dose increase of .25u at the very least, based on the TR Protocol:

"General" Guidelines:

  • Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 consecutive cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles).
  • Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
  • Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose:

  • Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
  • After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
  • After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
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I don't really see any clear nadir readings (+5 to +7 range, although it can be earlier or later and even vary per cycle), so it's hard to gauge whether this should be a .25u or .5u increase. Try to get a few more of those in and perhaps stick with your current dose for a little longer unless someone more experienced comes by and says otherwise. :-D
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515 Increase dose?

I'm going to infer that Lucian's nadirs have mostly been above 300. I'd go ahead and increase by 0.5u.

I'm not sure if you saw my earlier post. Is your current shot time OK given your night time limitations?
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515 Increase dose?

I've gotten all I can, at least twice a day I can't get anything, the last PMPS is 520. I manage to get 3-4 a day, but there are 2-3 more where I am unsuccessful. He can't very well keep up with these numbers.

I should adjust shallower?? that doesn't make sense, but I feel pretty stupid.

His shots are 8am and 8pm.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515 Increase dose?

Well paws crossed the new dose will do the trick.

My Tiggy is on 5units so you still have a ways to go.. So don't worry if it seems not to be working yet, you may just not have found the right dose.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515 Increase dose?

He's had 12 shots at this dose, only the 1st day after the reduction did I see better numbers and that was with a TrueToGo meter, the rest is with ReliOn.

Doesn't matter now, I just gave him 1.5 units, guess I'll just make coffee......

Oh and there is certainly a difference in the needles, this is the 1st time he has ever flinched. Now I feel really bad, will have to go somewhere else and get more. If there is anyone around Raleigh that uses 30 gauge, pm me, I have a 100 box, missing a couple.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515 Increase dose?

nckitties3 said:
I should adjust shallower?? that doesn't make sense, but I feel pretty stupid.
Click to expand...

If your lancet pen has a little dial on it, you can turn it up for the lancet to poke out further from the bottom (deeper penetration) or down for the lancet to poke out less (more shallow). Play around with it (I used my own fingertip when I set mine) and see which setting draws enough blood with the least amount of pain.

Let me know if this makes sense. Maybe someone has a better way of phrasing what I'm trying to explain. :lol:
 
LOL No I understand. I test myself. I just don't know how reducing the depth would get more blood, seems like it would be the opposite. I have my finger under his ear where I am trying to get the sample, I have not pierced his ear, although I can feel the lancet hitting the ear. It is set on 4. I tried the device myself on 2 and got nothing, on 4 it works for me. Maybe it's the device. I got a new device with the new ArKray meter that arrived today, but the dang thing is huge! Don't know if I'll have any luck with that. I also used it on me, at both 2 and 4 setting. Same result. I guess it's time to try to do it free hand, at an angle like recommended. I've had ZERO luck angling the device.
 
You may have just hit a sensitive spot, and if that was the case, it wouldn't really matter much if the needle of the syringe was 30 gauge or 31 gauge. What kind of syringes are you using? Terumos and Monojects are both smooth-injecting syringes. Do you take care always to insert the syringe so that the beveled edge of the needle (the flat side of the tip) is facing up? (this is much less painful for the kitty).

With regard to getting the ear to bleed, it is good to know that blood in the ear flows from the tip down. So if you put pressure (with your finger or thumb) just below where you plan to prick with the lancet, you can create a "dam" that will allow the blood above it to bead up better. I use a small, smooth washcloth to warm the ear. I dampen it, microwave it for about 10 seconds, then wrap it in a plastic bag. It is much smoother than a rice sock and therefore there is less irritation. Whether you use a lancet device or do the ear pricks free-hand is a matter of preference. Personally, I like the lancet device because it is faster than I can do it free-hand. I set it at the lowest setting.

Best of luck. Good idea to do a dose increase.

Ella & Rusty
 
Thank you Ella. I'm going to try a lower number on the dial and see if it makes a difference. I've tried the rice sock, the pillow bottle with warm water, everything, even gently blowing warm air on his ear. I am so frustrated.

I forgot to look for the bevel. :sad:

I had a heck of a time with a bubble! I probably lost 10 units trying to get rid of the bubble. There is no air in the pen, where does the bubble come from? The syringes are ReliOn. I can't afford to lose that much insulin every time I have to shoot, how do I avoid this?

And I don't always do anything - this is the first attempt with a syringe, I was using the pen.
 
The bubble comes from the syringe I think. You empty it first but the stopper on the end of the plunger is flexible and traps air. I find it better if you empty the syringe of air first ... and then press and hold the syringe very firmly ... and while still holding it you inject into the pen, and draw in the insulin.

I would freehand the lancet.. I find it much easier and controllable.
 
That's what I thought! There seems to be a very tiny space at the end of the plunger, like it doesn't quite go all the way up. I'll try like you said next time.
Thank you!
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

AGAIN no test! I can't take much more and neither can he! I tried adjusting the device, I tried both ears, I even tried free hand and nothing! What is he? empty? after 4-5 pokes I just can't keep on, I have to let him go. I can't do this. :cry: He didn't even want to get his treat, he's tired of being poked!
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

You CAN do this! It does take time for both of you to adjust. Be sure to give Lucian a treat after every test, even if you don't get blood. When I first started, people here told me that their cats came running when they heard the test strip bottle being shaken. I didn't believe it...but you know what? All I have to do now is pat the "testing station", and Trixie jumps up and "assumes the position!" If we can get there, you can, too!

I think we all have times when our kitties jump at shot time. We're verging on 2 years at this dance, and there are days when Trix is very, very jump, and there are days when she doesn't even notice the needle. I have no idea why that is. As for her ear pokey device...I'm sure each is different, but I do have hers set pretty high at "6". And there are still times I have to do multiple pokes to get a drop.

You can order the Monojects from American Diabetes Wholesale...there is a link at the top of the screen here, and if you click on it, the board gets a portion of the proceeds. Depending on your meter, you may also be able to get strips there, too!

You'll be fine...remember, with FDMB and LantusLand, you are not alone!
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

FWIW, the ears need to "learn" to bleed. The more you poke, the more you build up the capillary bed.

Here's what I would suggest. Try twice. If you don't get blood for a test, give Lucian a treat and come back in 15 min. and try again. Also, you need to be calm. If you radiate confidence, Lucian will relax, as well.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

Make sure those ears are nice and warm.... Rub them or try the usual techniques. Sometimes I even go for the vein when nothing else works.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

I'm just so tired of crying! I feel so bad for him! Its doing it over and over for nothing. I always give him treats, whether I get a test or not, its not his fault I'm incapable. How am I supposed to take care of him if I can't even get the tests he needs? I keep watching the utube videos, why can't I do that? I don't have a problem testing or shooting, I have a problem with it not working! You can see the places on his ears and the right one is bruised, I don't know what else to do, I've tried everything. Its like trying to get blood out of a rock. I saw one video using the inside of the ear, is that more apt to bleed? I just can't stand poking him over and over and over. If I was him I'd be pissed! And he isn't happy, he's not coming to me any more, even for treats.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

The good news is that his PMPS is high, which is a lot better than if Lucian was sitting in green numbers. One thing you could do is aim for the vein. You'll probably need a flashlight to see it. If you do poke the vein, it's going to bleed like a sucker. FWIW, I test a little lower than what's labeled the "sweet spot" in the photo.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

It's ok.. Calm down and relax. Give the kitty a break and give him some cuddles and scritches. Try again tomorrow when both you and he are more relaxed. By now both your blood sugars are probably high!

He will forgive you for this and it will be so worth it when he gets better numbers... Trust us.

Good news is that the bruised area might bleed better tomorrow too... ;) And like sienne says, try the vein tomorrow.

Where do you live? Maybe we have a member nearby that can come out and help..
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

Debbie -

I think we all understand your frustration, but you CAN get this. It DOES get easier, honest. A couple of things that helped me - I put a folded napkin between my finger and the underside of his ear. When I had problems getting him to bleed, it was often because I wasn't applying enough pressure. With the napkin, it's easier to apply the pressure before pricking. It also helped me early on, to put him in my lap and just rub him/rub his ears for 5 minutes or so before trying to test. It relaxed us both and warmed his ear. Also, Hershey's right ear bleeds better, so it's the one I use. The more you squeeze the ear, the more it'll bruise, so try not to squeeze it.

As far as the injection hurting - a time or two Hershey has flinched when I gave him his shot. We always shoot while he's eating and rarely does he notice it. I lean over him with one leg on either side and, like I said, shoot while he's eating.

Know that we've all been where you are and are here for you.

Have a peaceful night -

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

((((Debbie)))) deep breath.....it's ok. We all start the same and it will get easier. You will get it! You will.

The first few weeks, I was just heartbroken that I had to do this to my sweet baby girl. It still breaks my heart because she looks at me with adoring eyes and purrs up a storm and then I have to poke her. But it affects me more than her....she doesn't even react...she often sleeps through it.

I got the lid from an extra contact lens case and I put it on the inside of her ear to give me a sturdy object to poke against. In winter, I use the rice sock to warm her ear. I freehand because I can be very fast...I use 30g lancets but started with 28g until her ears learned to bleed. I did as Sienne suggested to you..two tries and then Id give her a treat and walk away for 15 mins and then come back. Bevel up, poke at an angle but more than 45 degrees. I bought a pack of baby wash cloths and have a cool, wet one with me when I poke so as soon as I'm done, I hold it to the poke spot for 20-30 seconds. Her ears have never been bruised. I then put Neosporin Ointment with pain relief on her ear after ever poke.

Finally, I alternate earsand sites up and down the sweet spot. Her right ear bleeds better...I barely have to touch it with the lancet now.

So take a deep breath, sing a soft song, have treats, and love on him. You can do it. I know you can :-D
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

I use a flashlight with a flat surface to push against plus I can see what's going on.

I use one just like this from eBay .. Search for "USB flashlight mini torch". It says mini torch on it and is also a keyring Comes from Hong Kong, is cheap and you just plug it into your computer to charge!

Mini-Torch_USB_Rechargeable_LED_Light_Flashlight4.jpg
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

I just upped the dose, I HAVE to get readings tonight. I can see the vein, I just can't hit it! The device is in the way. There has got to be a better way to do this!

I tried again, another battle lost and one mad cat. He is so fed up, he refuses the treats, now what? Managed to get a tiny bit of blood and the freakin' meter had timed out. I am so through!
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

Personally, I would ditch the lancet device and try it freehand. You will have more control and be able to see exactly where the tip is going. Sounds like you're almost there - you got some blood but the meter wasn't on your side. I usually try to get the blood flowing before I get the meter engaged. However, another thing you can do is get the blood droplet on your fingernail and then test it from there.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

Debbie, "tomorrow is another day". Forget about another test tonight. Put some Neosporin with pain relief on his ear tonight and start fresh tomorrow. If the lancet device gets in the way, try free-handing it. The led flashlight is a good idea. I have one of those flat ones that you push on the top glass to activate (they make them to stick on the walls in closets). It's 2 inches in diameter and about 1/2 inch high. You can easily see the vein.

It will get easier and your kitty will not hate you. He's picking up on your anxiety. I read once that cats' ears have developed great insensitivity over the centuries because the ear is always the first thing to be attacked in a cat fight. Lucian will survive even you! :lol:

Have a good night,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

Another thing that really helped me was to read other people's condos. It helped me to see that these people who seemed to be so comfortable with this dance had gone through the same frustrations I was having.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

I have no nails, thanks to my last job.
I'm done, I won't even attempt it again till morning. He is so mad at me and I don't blame him a bit. His poor ears are sore and I keep poking them. I have no problem with the 'concept' of testing and shooting, what I have a problem with is abusing my boy. Sticking him 6 times, is abuse in my book. Once is fine, twice if you have to, but I'm not doing this anymore, if I don''t get it in 2, I'm done. He won't have anything to do with me and I don't blame him, he won't even take his treats. I had to pull him out from under the table just to feed him, he's that traumatized. What kind of life is that for him?
He's not affectionate normally, he doesn't want to be with you, have you rub his belly, etc, he's not your normal cuddly kitty. He's not a lap cat, has never been. I can't hold and cuddle him and tell him I'm sorry. He used to sleep with me, that's when he cuddled and the only time. Now, he won't come near me unless he's hungry and after tonight, well.....he wouldn't even do that.
I'm seriously rethinking my decision to try to battle this. I knew I had to test and give his meds, no problem. This was the furthest from my mind. I feel like I handed him a torture sentence. I don't want him miserable.
 
Re: 1/18 Lucian AMPS 414, +3/451, +7/515, PMPS 520 FRUSTRAT

Debbie

HE WILL BE FINE! He's upset now so give you both a break. Get some rest. We had another member whose cat attacked her when she tried to test him. She had some bad scratches and bites. But she managed to test him by bundling him up like a burrito. He got used to it and eventually she did not have to burrito him. She didn't give up and he went into remission.

This is a treatable disease. No one who comes to our home can believe Gracie has diabetes. She is healthy, happy, plays...I don't think she even remembers what it was like before diabetes. Lucian will get there. You will get there.

Ella is right..tomorrow will be better and the next day will be even better.
 
I'm definitely calling it a night, neither of us can take any more. I'm normally very easy going, but this has pushed me over the edge, in a big way. I rarely get 'unstrung' but this has sure done it.

Thank you all.

There is NO WAY he would allow the paw test, I have to 'burrito' him for the ear. I'd need another person to even attempt that and I still have my doubts.
 
I use the lancet device and the thing that helps the most is pressing firmly down on the ear with the device with a cotton ball protecting my finger underneath from a poke through. If I forget to press firmly I don't get any blood.
 
I saw this last time, evidence of piercing, I didn't think I had done that, since I have my finger under there, but I have, no wonder he's pissed and his ears hurt.

Someone stick a fork in me! I'm Done! I'm so emotionally exhausted, I'm going to bed or I'll never hear the alarm in the morning.

Good night all and thank you again.
 
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