1/16 Mickey amps 312 pmps 370 @ 3.8 units

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Re: 1/16 Mickey

Wow, not much action at all on 3.8u. Normally I would suggest an increase. You did excellent at grabbing those mid cycle tests. The more of those +6 and +3 together like you did or at least +6es you can get the better.

Please list all the foods that you are feeding. And that he might be sneaking from the other kitties. Also, if you can find it please list the location of the Pro Plan one you found saying that it is "low carb."

I know you might be trying a diet change to get to the gluten free or even grain free. But I still want to know about the recent history.

Also I'm not sure if the Sophisticats are gluten free or grain free but I know they come up here occasionally with people finding success with them. And there might even be a couple of the Wal-Mart brand ones that are gluten free and low carb [under 10% calories from carbs]? It's important to keep in mind that Janet & Binky's list is laid out in % calories from carbs or as %Kcal consumed. The data has generally been received from the manufacturer in As Fed or Dry Matter basis form them converted to as %Kcal consumed. And one cannot use the "Guaranteed Analysis" printed on the can to reliably convert to anything useful.

Also I'm hoping Claudia or Nancy might be along to ask some questions.
 
Re: 1/16 Mickey

I'm working on going back thru some of your old posts to glean some more info about Mickey's general health. To save some time, I'll just ask some questions. Has Mickey always been a big boy? Did he lose weight upon diagnosis of fd? Is he big and muscular, or kind of flabby? Does he snore? Does he have any heart issues (murmur or anything)? What are his eating habits like? Also, how is he acting? Is he drinking and peeing a lot? How is his activity level? I think that's a good start. Hopefully this info and all the q's Gator asked will help steer you and Mickey in the right direction.
 
Re: 1/16 Mickey

Thought I would also note that Mickey is having chronic diarrhea - hence the potential food change. Stool "float" analysis was negative for all organisms. And Mickey is perhaps ill tempered - especially with other humans [and one of the other cats she cares for], Peggy lost her alternate shooter [that would shoot when her work schedule would not permit] because he bit her one too many times :sad:

Peggy is an angel for the 9 cats she cares for. o:-)
 
Re: 1/16 Mickey amps 312 pmps 370 @ 3.8u

Ok, here goes, general health, pooping all over my home. Thank goodness I have hard wood floors through out. Eating, drinking, peeing big.

The first time he was dx with diabetes 2007, he went from 24 lbs to 18 lbs and was like a kitten again. This time he went from 30.3 down to 28.7 lbs, he is too big, I actually thought he lost weight last vet visit and he gained one pound. Someone suggested a while back to get him tested, perhaps he was an acro cat. Negative.

We feed: Fancy Feast- Chicken and Liver, Turkey and Giblets, Mixed Grill, Classic Chicken, ProPlan chicken and liver adult. He may get into Whiskas 3.5 oz Rotisserie chicken, filet mignon or Turkey flavor. I do have dry in high places ProPlan Chicken and rice. (I do not believe he can get up to the bowls) But I do not know, would be quite impossible due to his size.

Justin, I am working on the other list from petsmart. It is in this house, just have to find it. Could not find it online again, go figure.

Matilda(sister) would rather starve then eat wet food. Some cannot be changed. The other 7 will eat whatever I put down. :mrgreen:

Mickey's activity level, not much. Fiv Thomas age 15 or so and Mickey have many issues. They try to kill each other regularly. So if Thomas isn't locked in a room he is very cautious on his movements. I even locked Thomas up until 0430am this morning. And Mickey still pooped behind my couch. Yes, I was awakened by the fragrant odor of Mickey poop. LOL

He has always been a large cat. Even since kittenhood. Doubled in size of his sister, Matilda. She is 15 lbs with a really short tail. Go figure. Once I find the connection to my camera I will attempt to upload a pic of him. I had one on the old board and have not been able to get another pic up.
 
Fancy Feast Chicken and Liver [Tender Liver & Chicken Feast] - 3%*
Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets - 3%
Fancy Feast Mixed Grill - 4% [chopped grill?]
Fancy Feast Classic Chicken - 3%
ProPlan chicken and liver adult - ??
---------Other cats--------------
Whiskas 3.5 oz Rotisserie chicken - ??
Whiskas Filet Mignon - ??
Whiskas Turkey flavor - ??

*value is suspect, came as .7 from Purina, altered to make sanity check = 100

So evidently we have some problems. The Pro Plan is the biggest problem I see. Then the Whiskas flavors I do not see in the list either. Do you see them - or their analog?

What I recommend is that you find a low carb gluten or grain free food that you can give to ALL the cats. Sort of that then we need to do the research to get the data on the flavors you are feeding and do the conversion. This topic details how it is done:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... =24&t=7743
It can be A LOT of effort and take months to complete has happened with just a few Fancy Feast flavors described in that post. I'm willing to work with you to "mentor" you how to go about getting the info. Otherwise, I suggest finding foods that have known values. There is absolutely no safe amount of high carb food for diabetics - not one kibble not one treat not one lick of the high carb. It is sad but true. And we would like to get results for Mickey and they way to do that is to get rid of all the unknowns and variability that is possible. Once we get you regulated then you can feed all the high carb or unknown carb food you want - but at least you would know what to do if the numbers raced off. :smile:

And low carb gluten free or grain free food is great for all cats.

Here is the link to Karen & Angus's list that I had talked about:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... =28&t=3515

And here is a link showing the Purina Body condition system:
http://placervillevet.com/feline%20body%20condition.htm
 
I assume you have plenty of litterboxes and Mickey isn't just acting out by pooping on the floor. Especially since gator said it's diarrhea, not just regular old poop. And the vet couldn't find any reason for it? No pancreatitis? Have you tried other brands of grain/gluten free foods? I assume because of your work schedule that Matilda is free fed her kibbles? My darla hates most wet foods, too. I try to only feed her wet, but she's so picky there's no telling if she'll eat it on any given day...so bad mama me- I keep supplying the crack. But luckily her and Charlie live separated so he can't sneak any of her food. I know the stress of 2 cats who can't live together. Don't you wish you had 2 houses and 2 selves?! So, not an acro kitty, eh? Could the unregulated bg levels just be because he needs more insulin? That wouldn't solve the pooping, though. How long was Mickey otj last time? I wish I knew what to tell you!
 
Mickey was on insulin in Dec 06 to Jan 07 only a month and a half. Last time we used Humilun 70/30. Which wasn't the best choice I heard. But it worked.

I have litterboxes in about every room but the bathroom. I don't think he is acting out. I think he cannot help himself. Guess he gets a belly ache and just goes :sad:

We have tried just about every brand of low carb food. He is a pain in the butt.

And thank you Justin!! I go into work today at 2pm so I have 8 hours to work on all of the information you shared.
 
Peggy,
Has your vet mentioned anything about how many calories Mickey should be consuming daily to lose weight? Or anything else about a restricted calorie diet for Mickey? And how are you trying to address the weight issue?

Dr. Pierson has a pretty good writeup on feline obesity here:
http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity
I think it talks about how much weight is safe to lose over a period of time etc.
 
Gator, we have not discussed his obesity. I am on catinfo.org right now. I am trying to figure how much food/calories per day to give him.
One thing, I need to stop free feeding. Which should not be a problem. I work wacky enough hours to do that.
 
OK I'm going to give you the link to a SS I made to do some energy intake calculations. BUT, if possible, I really would like you to approach the topic with your vet and hopefully undertake the diet in consultation with them.

This is the spreadsheet I made to do the MER/DER calculations:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... nhPTXBEUUE

It is based on the formulas in here:
http://www.vin.com/vindbpub/searchpb/pr ... r00168.htm

There is a link to SACN 4th ed ch6 in the PZI sticky nutrition links that is referenced in the SS.

Since the SS is read only you need to download it then upload it into your own google or just use it with excel. Instructions are at the top of the SS.

Cats should not lose too much at one time - it needs to be progressive. Dr. Pierson's page has good info on obesity:
http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity
and weight loss. "The key is to go slowly with a goal of no more than 1-2% weight loss per week."

Weighing the food [in grams] helps too if you are trying to feed a certain amount and be consistent about it.

I really like this scale:
http://www.google.com/search?q=my+weigh+kd-8000
H was 6-7Kg so I was able to weigh him on that scale too with a lightweight cardboard filing box on top. But Micky would not work on that scale. But the food would.

Also I seen that folks here like the PetSafe 5 5 potition timed feeder if that is something you think might help spread the meals out over the day:
http://www.google.com/search?q=petsafe+5
 
Also as far as the ProPlan - evidently it is in the Dr. Lynne's Wet Food Shopping List here:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... 28&t=12846

Honestly, I have no idea about that list. Those flavor might all be low carb I just don't know. I don't think that list makes any claims about the carb contents of the foods. You could probably post in Health for more clarification.

And the other foods that Mickey could get into are still a concern especially if you are going to try a diet with him. I'm sure he will get hungry and seek out any food that is out. A difficult position with 9 cats to deal with. :sad:

Also, I like to verify all the info I can about foods too. So I would recommend visiting the websites [or look at the cans] of the food you feed and look at ingredients just to make sure you are feeding what you think you are feeding. I'm very un-trusting of the information here.

If all the foods you are feeding are wheat gluten free then that blows my idea about wheat gluten free for Mickey out of the water.

As far as the feline's pride, I think there are many here that have fed it and been happy with it. A raw food only diet would be the ultimate food test to see if diet change would help the diarrhea.

I think Marcy who was on PZI here was feeding this brand of raw:
http://www.naturesvariety.com

But even with raw, you still need to make sure you are feeding the right amount to ensure you guys stay on track for the weight goals.

One can also make raw food at home but that's a whole 'nother topic.
 
That ss is really slick, Gator.
I thought I saw ProPlan on Janet & Binky's food chart...I want to say it was on the "old" list.
I hope Mickey feels better soon. NVs raw is ok, but it has a lot of extra's in it...I've looked into Feline Pride, which seems more natural. Klinger was on NVs raw for a little while and then he decide last week that he was done with it...of course this is after I picked up two bags. The great thing about NV is you can return the packages if your kitty doesn't like the food. Nice!
 
mars72 said:
That ss is really slick, Gator.
Click to expand...
Thanks!! Yea, someone likes it! :-D :-D

The important part is to track their weight. Then if you start at a certain multiplication factor and it isn't right then you can modify the multiplication factor in the right direction to get where you need to go. From the little reading I did, I don't think there is really anything set in stone about a certain multiplication factor working for all cats or anything like that. IMHO it really should be a ECID thing.

I'm sorry it is read-only and the process of actually getting it to work is a little complicated. There is a special tool that will take spreadsheets and convert them into web pages so they work via JavaScript. I just haven't explored that. Maybe if there was greater demand or something. I've shared that SS with plenty of people - but I think it takes a certain [detail] mindset to actually put it to use. :smile:

If you have any suggestions for that SS let me know and I'll incorporate them.
 
I've had the petsafe feeder for 6 years or do- I love it! Charlie lost 5 pounds on a restricted calorie diet. Unfortunately it was kibbles. But I'm sure it can be done easily on a low-carb wet diet. I've even read that that's better for weight loss. The Atkins diet is ideal for cats. Blue buffalo wilderness is pretty good wet food with ultra-low carbs. I called and they said the wet varieties are all under 1%. It's a bit pricey which is part of the reason we didn't stick with it.
 
Blue buffalo wilderness. I will check that out. Oh, wow could you imagine how expensive it would be to feed that to 9 cats??
We have a high end pet store in town. I am going to go tomorrow and take a look and see what I can figure out.
 
I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, that'd be crazy expensive. Those kitties would eat you out of house and home! How about just switching the other cats from the Whiskas food (since we don't seen to know the carb count for those) to something with a known carb content? I use 9-lives pates and they don't have any grains in them and they're inexpensive at aroung $1.50 for a 4-pack of 5.5 ounce cans. Sometimes my grocery store has them on sale for as cheap as $1. Maybe that would help.
 
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