1/12 Ozzy AMPS 283, +3 240, PMPS 316

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Ozzy Pawzbourne

Ozzy Pawzbourne

Member Since 2016
Yesterday

Good Morning!

Sleepy but slept super good. Something about the window being cracked open and hearing the rain makes me snooze so good! And it poured here last night...still going. But that roof is not leaking! Good job Hubby!

AMPS = 283

Today is my last day of work this week and then I have a 3-day weekend. Looking forward to that VERY much.

Hope you all have a great day!
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Yesterday

Good Morning!

Sleepy but slept super good. Something about the window being cracked open and hearing the rain makes me snooze so good! And it poured here last night...still going. But that roof is not leaking! Good job Hubby!

AMPS = 283

Today is my last day of work this week and then I have a 3-day weekend. Looking forward to that VERY much.

Hope you all have a great day!
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Yeah for 3day weekends :). And yeah for restful, deep sleep , regardless the amount :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I love sleeping when it is raining. Don't get to do it with the window open here because it is usually too warm and humid. Now put me on the porch of a beach house with the waves crashing, wind blowing and 90* and I can sleep!

I have a three day WE also - but I am off Monday for MLK day.
 
It was so awesome to see Ozzy in greens the last two nights. I wish it was in the daytime but I am actually not there to monitor so that kind of scares me, too. Who knows, he could have been green all week and I'd never know.

I am off work starting tonight (YA!) and don't go back to work till Monday. What do you think about his dose? I'm happy with where he goes in the greens at night time, but he still has some pretty high pre-shot numbers. How do we get him to blue PS? Should we consider taking him up .25U? If we are going to do that, tonight would be the night since I will be at home and able to monitor the next 7 cycles.

Also, he seems to run lower at night. His +2 on the AM cycle seems much higher than on the PM cycle. He also doesn't seem to drop as much from his AMPS number as he does on his PM shot. Look at today for example, 3 hours from AMPS, he only went down 43 points whereas last night at +2 he was down a significant number of points.
 
Just wanted to say, I keep going back to look at the pics of Ozzy in his hammock from yesterday because they make me happy-- he is sooooo adorable!!!!

Enjoy your long weekend!
 
IMHO, he's getting into good numbers but he's bouncing. How low do you want his nadirs? I'm thinking 70s are fine and you have to roll with the bounces. He has been into the 50s on this dose. It's possible he is a little carb sensitive so if he has MC, it flattens him out a little.

Personally, I'd play it by ear and shoot the 1.25u dose tonight. Because Lantus is cumulative in nature, he might continue to improve and he's clearing bounces quickly. I'd reassess after each cycle if he were mine. If his nadirs start trending up and bouncing lasts longer, you'll want to increase.

Two things can cause bouncing....a lower number than his body is used to or a fast drop. He went from 266 to 111 in two hours last night. That means he could have dropped 30 the first hour and the rest of it the second. There is no way to know.

However, you "could" test him at +1 as well tonight and see how much he drops. If it's a huge drop, give him some MC to slow it down and try to get the rest of the cycle to flatten a bit.

What do you think?
 
Carb sensitive means it doesn't take a lot of carbs to manage his curve. Some cats here won't see a budge in their BG with 20% carbs. Others get a bump off of freeze dried chicken treats so they are super carb sensitive. There are some that do great with LC even for low numbers. That's what you have to learn about Ozzy.

It's best to see nadirs between 50-100 but 50 doesn't give you a lot of room before he earns a reduction and the goal is to keep him at a dose where he stays in green longer and longer. If he earns a reduction and you take the dose down, he could be one of those like my Gracie who could be in beautiful greens, earn a reduction by 0.25u, and go up to high yellow/pink and stay. And, truthfully, his body knows no difference between 50 and 90.

Ok...you aren't going to like this part but why are you worried about blue PSs? Libby taught me long ago "don't chase numbers, let them come to you". If you push too hard (which I also did early on) for blues and greens, you could cause him to start dropping low, bouncing way up, dropping low, etc.

If he were mine, I would be fine with where the nadirs are now and give it just a bit more time to see if they gradually come down and if you can manage the curve so the big early drops don't come. Then he might start staying in green longer and his liver might remember what it's like to be there. Bounces could minimize.

I know you've heard it...FD is a marathon, not a sprint. (I also understand you want to maximize the time you have off to test him and see what he's doing or to increase the dose if necessary).
 
Marje and Gracie said:
IMHO, he's getting into good numbers but he's bouncing
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Why do you think he might be bouncing? Going to low or going to low too fast? What can we do to help with this? Try some MC food in the cycle?
Marje and Gracie said:
It's possible he is a little carb sensitive so if he has MC, it flattens him out a little.
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Is this good or bad? I'm not sure I understand. Do we want him to flatten out? I have only given him MC when he's dropped too fast or too low.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Carb sensitive means it doesn't take a lot of carbs to manage his curve. Some cats here won't see a budge in their BG with 20% carbs. Others get a bump off of freeze dried chicken treats so they are super carb sensitive. There are some that do great with LC even for low numbers. That's what you have to learn about Ozzy.
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Ok, got this.
Marje and Gracie said:
Ok...you aren't going to like this part but why are you worried about blue PSs? Libby taught me long ago "don't chase numbers, let them come to you". If you push too hard (which I also did early on) for blues and greens, you could cause him to start dropping low, bouncing way up, dropping low, etc.
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Not worried about blue PSs, per se; I just want him to get there and continue to see progress. I know that might not happen right away or even ever as not all cats can/do achieve remission. But it is definitely our goal to get him into remission if it is at all possible. I'm not in a rush, I definitely don't want to push too hard; I just was curious what the next steps are to get there. Both the SLGS and TR protocols only address initial dosing guidelines, but not what the next steps are to continue to make progress down the dosing scale.
Marje and Gracie said:
If he were mine, I would be fine with where the nadirs are now and give it just a bit more time to see if they gradually come down and if you can manage the curve so the big early drops don't come. Then he might start staying in green longer and his liver might remember what it's like to be there. Bounces could minimize.
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I am pretty happy with his last 2 PM cycles and am definitely willing to give him more time on this dose and see what happens. We have been splitting his meals up and spreading them out so he only eats about 1.5 oz at his first feed before his shot. Think we should try to give him a larger meal preshot and see if that helps with the drops?

Wish I knew what happened with his AM cycle today. He started high, hadn't dropped much by +3 (as opposed to last night) and then ended in the 300s for PMPS.
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Why do you think he might be bouncing? Going to low or going to low too fast? What can we do to help with this? Try some MC food in the cycle?

Is this good or bad? I'm not sure I understand. Do we want him to flatten out? I have only given him MC when he's dropped too fast or too low.
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Every FD cat bounces at first. Some eventually stop and some continue to bounce (Gracie did but it was fairly minimal after a while). When our kitties are diagnosed, we generally don't know how long they might have been diabetic and so their liver gets used to higher numbers. When the numbers start coming down with insulin, as Ozzy's have, the liver reacts because those numbers no longer seem normal. As a protection, the liver and pancreas release counter regulatory hormones and glucagon to bring the BG back up to what the body believes is normal.

That's exactly what Ozzy's body is doing now. We call this liver training school where the liver and pancreas have to get used to normal numbers again and realize they are safe. The longer he is in normal numbers, the more his liver/pancreas recognize them as normal and the less, we hope, he will bounce. The BG doesn't even have to get low. I've seen cats bounce from just getting down to blue numbers after being in pink and red.

So I think Ozzy's body is dealing with that and with dropping too fast.

If one flattens the cycle and the nadir comes up a bit, it can be possible to get more insulin into the kitty. Ideally, the "curve" is not really a curve but is flat. Look at the SSs of some of the cats albout ready to go into remission or cats like Boomer and Bubba. They have pretty flat "curves".
 
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So it seems he bounced tonight probably from his cycle last night. So I am not thinking it's going to be too active tonight....maybe I will actually get to sleep! Hah!:woot:
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
I just was curious what the next steps are to get there. Both the SLGS and TR protocols only address initial dosing guidelines, but not what the next steps are to continue to make progress down the dosing scale.
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With SLGS, you just keep doing the same thing.....holding the dose a week unless a reduction is earned; do a curve once a week; adjust the dose, if warranted. Carla did SLGS with Furball from Mar, 2012 until her liver "snapped" in OCt, 2015 and she went OTJ.

With TR, there are instructions for increasing the dose, holding the dose, and reducing the dose that can take you right through to remission.

However, having said all that, SLGS and TR are often, as you indicated, a starting place for new members and as they build data and get to know their cats, both approaches might need to be slightly modified to suit what your cat needs. For example, I had to go to increases and decreases of 0.1u.

Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
I am pretty happy with his last 2 PM cycles and am definitely willing to give him more time on this dose and see what happens. We have been splitting his meals up and spreading them out so he only eats about 1.5 oz at his first feed before his shot. Think we should try to give him a larger meal preshot and see if that helps with the drops?
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Many feed the curve by feeding at PS, +1, +2, and +3. Another area that depends on the cat but frontloading the cycle can help. I did find it helpful to do larger portions at PS and +1 but ECID. You have to experiment and see what helps but it's not usually an overnight fix. For Gabby, it took a few months. Others respond faster.

Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Wish I knew what happened with his AM cycle today. He started high, hadn't dropped much by +3 (as opposed to last night) and then ended in the 300s for PMPS.
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Either he's having a bit of a delayed bounce or this is the high before the break so I'd watch him closely tonight and be sure you get that +2 at the latest just in case. Sometimes cats flip their cycles so he could potentially bounce through tonight and clear tomorrow during the day. Only Ozzy knows!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Either he's having a bit of a delayed bounce or this is the high before the break
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Can you explain this more??
Delayed bounce? What do you mean by this? Like he should have bounced at the end of the cycle last night or had a higher AMPS this morning and instead it 'delayed' (meaning the higher number) until tonight's PMPS?
What do you mean by 'high before the break'? What is he breaking from? And which cycle are you referring to? The one last night, or the one from today?

Any chance that after his +3 today he dropped low and then bounced at the end of his cycle? I know we all don't know what the heck these cats do... I'd say probably no because he doesn't have data to show that he's made it all the way to +3 with high numbers and then crashed later.
 
Gonna go grab a +1. Poor kitty...he's going to get poked a lot this weekend. Sorry in advance Ozzy Pawzie....hope you still love your mama come Monday morning!:confused:
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Can you explain this more??
Delayed bounce? What do you mean by this? Like he should have bounced at the end of the cycle last night or had a higher AMPS this morning and instead it 'delayed' (meaning the higher number) until tonight's PMPS?
What do you mean by 'high before the break'? What is he breaking from? And which cycle are you referring to? The one last night, or the one from today?
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Sometimes, it just takes a cycle or so to really see the effects of the hormones and glucagon on the BG. He might have surfed all night...we don't know. So his bounce, perhaps, was just starting today.

In some cats, some times, you'll think the numbers are coming down to clear a bounce and then they shoot way back up....and then clear fast and come down. We call that the "high before the break" which means a high number before the bounce clears. Some cats are really predictable. Again...something we will learn about Ozzy. Whenever I saw a cycle like that, I'd be on guard for a potential bounce breaking cycle. Again, he would be bouncing from the greens last night and the high before the break would be the pink number he had after his bounce today (from lower numbers last night). We will just have to see if that is what he's doing.

Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Any chance that after his +3 today he dropped low and then bounced at the end of his cycle? I know we all don't know what the heck these cats do... I'd say probably no because he doesn't have data to show that he's made it all the way to +3 with high numbers and then crashed later.
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Yes ma'am. Totally possible. Let's say his duration was short last night and so his numbers went up fast after you stopped testing. Then let's say his insulin onset today at +2 and he came down. He could have gotten back down into blue or green and the 316 is the start of a bounce. Excellent question.
 
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How we doing there? I thought you mentioned a +1 and decided you must have changed your mind but it should be past +2 if you shot at 7:18 your time.
 
Hey Jo...good night to you and Ozzy from soon to be ice stormed Missouri. Been vegging on the couch watching our fav NBA team, Golden State Warriors, so been pretty useless tonight. So glad for your 3 DAY WEEKEND :):):).....will be watching you and Ozzy tomorrow, as long as our hillbilly internet holds up( if the ice does come:nailbiting:):bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:...heres to a sleep filled, peaceful night, both in Mo and Cali:)
 
Sorry!! My work phone got wiped and I just spent the last 3 hours on the phone with IT trying to get it fixed!

Ozzy is yellow all night so far:
+1 289
+4 228

He's probably still bouncing from his greens last night.

He also still has stinky poo and he vomited again about 2 hours after his 9pm snack. He went into his LB to pee and then while in there, he threw up. He had his face near the entrance looking out from the lid to his LB, and vomited out the front on the floor. It kind of flew out of him, like projectile. I don't know what's going on with him. Stinky poo and now vomiting the last few days.

Could this be due to his diet change? Should we lay off the raw food? He has only been getting a little raw mixed in with his meals. Figgie LOVES it and will eat raw all on his own, but Ozzy still needs it mixed in with his food. Figgie is still getting regular wet with raw mixed in too or a little raw all by itself on the side. They both are eating all wet food: FF, Tiki Cat, Friskies Pate, BFF, weurva, and raw. They are getting a mix of stuff. Is this maybe too much variety for his system? Should we maybe stick with one type of food for now?

I really never paid attention to his BMs before, but can say that smell is new...you could not miss that. We have noticed it maybe the last week or a little longer. He has been vomiting the last few days also. I know everyone is going to say take him to the vet...but we just spent over $5k a month ago to treat his DKA and every vet visit is hundreds of dollars more. If we can figure this out ourselves, that would be ideal. Want to look into getting probiotics as Marje mentioned yesterday. Do they sell these at Walmart (going tomorrow) and if so, what kind should I get and how to we administer it? Should we try to get him to just eat boiled chicken for the next day or two and see if his tummy settles down?

I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks.
 
Beth 73 said:
ey Jo...good night to you and Ozzy from soon to be ice stormed Missouri. Been vegging on the couch watching our fav NBA team, Golden State Warriors, so been pretty useless tonight. So glad for your 3 DAY WEEKEND :):):).....will be watching you and Ozzy tomorrow, as long as our hillbilly internet holds up( if the ice does come:nailbiting:):bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:...heres to a sleep filled, peaceful night, both in Mo and Cali:)
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Vegging on the couch and feeling useless is the best way to be!!! We all need a little downtime. I hope to be doing the same this weekend... and in my jam jams!!:woot::smuggrin:

Thanks Beth for keeping an eye out on us! We are following yours and Elmo's journey daily too . So excited at his progress right now. It must be so exciting for you!!!
 
Gussie's mom said:
If you have the windows open I'm sure you are really sleeping soundly given the rain that's still falling!:)
@Marje and Gracie this thread is amazing and full of such clear explanations! Should definitely be bookmarked by all of us!:bighug:
:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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@Gussie's mom Ahhhh...I wish I was snoozing while the rain is falling. That was so nice last night! I am up though but it's ok because I am off tomorrow. Ya!!

I did see an amazing phenomena tonight when I was driving home from work. I looked up in the dark rain drenched sky and saw what looked like a fracture in the heavens....it looked like a crack in ice and illuminated. I was afraid I was going to get into a car accident because I could not take my eyes off of this scene. It was gorgeous. It took me a few minutes to realize it was a full moon rising through the rain clouds, only the full beamed moon was behind the clouds, so when it emerged from behind, it looked like a lunar eclipse and highlighted the full size and depth of the clouds that were enveloping it. The clouds looked 3 dimensional and it was almost like you could pluck them away with a God sized hand. I am not a fan of the rain so much, but wow...that was an amazing sight!

I tried to take a picture through my windshield a few minutes in but it came out blurry and once the moon started emerging from out behind the clouds, the huge fracture in the sky I was describing above was waning.
20170112_183314.jpg
 
Wow, that's still an amazing picture!

Marje is the expert at probiotics, but I know one of the ones she likes is the Renew Life Ultimate Flora. I believe they do carry it at Walmart. There are different varieties of it, so you might want to ask her which to get, and how much toa administer. It's usually mixed in with food, but I had to put it in smaller gelcaps and pill my cats as they didn't like anything mixed in their food.

I would be a bit concerned if he is throwing up every day and his stools are unusually smelly. It might be the new food, or the new combo. You might try going to just one that he has had before and see if the problem stops. The plain boiled chicken is also an option, but you don't want to do that too long as he won't be getting the nutrients, like Taurine, that cats need.

If he throws up after eating, you might want to try to test him 30 minutes or so later, to make sure his BG doesn't drop. Throwing up before the food has a chance to start breaking down and being absorbed is pretty much like his not eating at all with insulin on board.

The way you describe his throwing up in the lb reminds me of Cinco doing that, but with him it meant he was constipated and straining so hard to get the poo out that it made him vomit. It doesn't sound like that's what's happening to Ozzy.

Sending good tummy and poo vines.
 
Morning, Jo and Ozzy....will defer to the far more experienced than myself on your puke/poo situation when related to diabetes but around here our go-to is Slippery Elm and homeopathic remedy Nux Vomica (30c size). Slippery Elm goes down and coats the entire GI tract, soothing and drawing out toxins. Has done amazing things for us and our furry boys. Nux Vomica is a remedy that detoxifies as well..have used it for years when their GI tracts upset. You can check it out on good ole Google ;). Of course, none of this said is to rule out/take the place of advice given by more experienced FDMB folk....just shared what we initially use when dealing with poopy/pukey times .Will be watching you and Ozzy today, praying calmed GI tract over your sweetie pie boy!!!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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