1/12 Basic AMPS 238 +3.5 153 +6.5 94 +8.5 117 PMPS 159 +3 223 +5.5 310

Basic's Mom

Basic's Mom

Member Since 2023
Previous post:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...nt-steroid-ear-treatment.285436/#post-3142161

Base's numbers are finally coming down after a topical steriod (Otipack, off label) was used for an ear infection. Moving forward, his chart is marked to indicate No steroids (including topical). The vet office also stated because of this, they will be changing their procedures moving forward with other diabetic cats and topical steriods.

He got sick the night of his appointment. This isn't common for him. I can only assume it was the steroids hitting his system. He hasn't gotten sick again.

Thanks to everyone that helped us with this or checked on him. I appreciate it.
 
I’m glad his bg is coming down. I do want to say that lots of meds are used off label for cats because the manufacturers don’t want to test for cats too. Cerenia was used off label for a very long time before first they approved the injectable and much later the pills .
 
@tiffmaxee
I am very glad to see it coming back down too.

Yeah, I'm aware a lot of meds are used off label. I'm just not a huge fan of it. I like to be able to see the research and the side effects during the trial. After this incident occured and I looked up the med, it has caused both dogs and cats to become deaf. Diabetes aside, I wouldn't have allowed this to be used on my cat had I known all of this in advance. My cat has never had an ear infection. If Otipack has to be used, I'd say it should be a last resort type of medicine for a cat, not the first.

@La-La Leo
Especially because of something you did or allowed. Yes, just awful. All I could think was they weren't going to come down because that is a possibility. Just isn't worth the risk.
 
I totally agree that any steroid should be a last resort. Frankly having been on this board I feel that way for all cats just more strongly when it vines to diabetics. Ondansetron was a life saver for my cancer kitty and was off label back then so while I prefer using approved meds I weigh the benefits and risks. Too many meds are mot tested first in cats and some that are approved I would never use based upon risks. The new pills for fd comes to mind. Just my opinion.
 
I agree completely with you. It terrifies me frankly. It also saddens me for cats across the board. I hate the it seems like they are an after thought.

Ondansetron was also a life saver for us. The forum kept telling me to get it and his previous vet kept arguing against it. Once I got it and the correct dose was in his system, it was obvious he should've been on that from day one. Cerenia didn't help him at all.
 
Hi Sybil. I just stopped by today to check and make sure Basic was doing better with his BG after the topical steroids in his ear. That really spiked him for several cycles! Wow! You were so upset about it after the vet visit and I was reading your thread and feeling sorry for you because you were being so hard on yourself — so I just popped by to say hello and I am happy that he’s coming back down. He was looking so good so far this year after stopping all kibble toward the end of last year. It’s amazing how much difference that seems to have made. Of course, I know he also had increases. I see he is at 4 units now and I know you will watch him carefully to see if he needs to be reduced back down in dose since the steroid effect seems to be wearing off. Have a wonderful day!
 
@Suzanne & Darcy
I wouldn't have forgiven myself if I caused him more harm. Thank you for checking on us.

I was very proud of his beautiful ss from the beginning of this year and truly wasn't prepared to see the numbers he went up to.

He's come such a long way and I wanted to continue on that path. We are now. Just had a bump in the road that thankfully didnt do too much damage. For the first time since his dx, his labs aren't painful to look at. Albumin is 1% out of normal range, but she said it was nothing concerning. His heart sounded good.

I will definitely watch him closely. There is not much room for error with this disease.

@Wendy&Neko
I was so excited when his number was even lower this morning, but cried when I saw the 90s.


I wanted to ask about his dose. Can someone look at his SS and see if he should go back to his previous dose? Had this not occured, I wouldn't have given him an increase yet. I don't think he had time to settle into his previous dose before the increase. If it were me, I would reduce, but I want others to weigh in.
 
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Hi Sybil, just stopping by to send you a big hug. I know you d had a tough week. Basic is looking so much better. I know you must be so relieved. You are doing such a wonderful job of advocating for him In Every way.
I hope he continues to feel much better and that you have a restful and happy weekend ahead :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
@Wendy&Neko
A vet from the clinic is asking that I reduce it. Should I explain that his increase wasn't because of the steriod increasing his BG and explain the dosing protocol I use? His vet is out due to a family emergency.

@Staci & Ivy Thank you. Hope your weekend is relaxing and uneventful as well.
 
The increase was directly related to the steroid, but in response to the change in numbers caused by it. You didn't increase in response to the steroid alone. You were just following TR protocol. At one point, I gave a copy of the protocol to my vet. In the Dosing Methods Sticky, there is a link to the paper, you might want to send that on.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
The increase was directly related to the steroid, but in response to the change in numbers caused by it. You didn't increase in response to the steroid alone. You were just following TR protocol. At one point, I gave a copy of the protocol to my vet. In the Dosing Methods Sticky, there is a link to the paper, you might want to send that on.
Click to expand...
Thanks for explaining.

I sent them the link from the dosing sticker before you had a chance to respond in hopes it would reach them before they left for the day, as I didnt want anyone worry about him. I sent the link for Tilly's site, which includes links to the German forum and The Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery. If I should send anything further, can you let me know?

Thank you

There's one link that isn't working in The Dosing Method sticky. "Management of Feline diabetes with long lasting insulin." in case this is the one you were referring to.
 
Basic's Mom said:
Thanks for explaining.

I sent them the link from the dosing sticker before you had a chance to respond in hopes it would reach them before they left for the day, as I didnt want anyone worry about him. I sent the link for Tilly's site, which includes links to the German forum and The Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery. If I should send anything further, can you let me know?

Thank you

There's one link that isn't working in The Dosing Method sticky. "Management of Feline diabetes with long lasting insulin." in case this is the one you were referring to.
Click to expand...
If you have a vet who will actually take the time to read those publications then I am impressed!
 
@carfurby (GA)
I appreciate you explaining your situation with topical ateriods to me and trying to help reassure me he would probably be okay. I was the probably that had me so upset. I kept think the worst which helped no one. Ha

@Suzanne & Darcy
I am very hopeful that they read through the information I sent them. No one should reach an age they feel they are unteachable. I do not want to try and find a new vet either. I will do what I have to for my cat though. I know. I'm very proud of him and this quick turnaround. I knew this morning after his AMPS that is was starting to head downward. I was so happy to see that green. Now, I'm hopeful he will even out like before. What a rollercoaster.
 
Basic's Mom said:
@carfurby (GA)
I appreciate you explaining your situation with topical ateriods to me and trying to help reassure me he would probably be okay. I was the probably that had me so upset. I kept think the worst which helped no one. Ha

@Suzanne & Darcy
I am very hopeful that they read through the information I sent them. No one should reach an age they feel they are unteachable. I do not want to try and find a new vet either. I will do what I have to for my cat though. I know. I'm very proud of him and this quick turnaround. I knew this morning after his AMPS that is was starting to head downward. I was so happy to see that green. Now, I'm hopeful he will even out like before. What a rollercoaster.
Click to expand...
I agree. I hope they will read it. And you should be proud after all you two have been through!!
 
Basic's Mom said:
There's one link that isn't working in The Dosing Method sticky. "Management of Feline diabetes with long lasting insulin." in case this is the one you were referring to.
Click to expand...
Is that the one that says "summary published in 2013", right above the link to the German forum? If I click on it, it takes me to the file with the paper. At least, that's what happens on a computer. On a phone I get a pop up asking me if I want to download "management of diabetic cats.pdf". What do you see?
 
It wasn't opening for me and no menu was popping up. I held down on the link and selected open in a new tab and then I was able to view the document. Forwarded that to them just now and saved the paper to my drive on my phone. Thank you very much.
 
Hi Sybil. Nice to see Basic back in green and blues! I hope his ear cleared up too, an infection is not a good thing to have either. :bighug:i stopped telling the vet what dose I give Bella at some point. Not right away, but after a few months here when I could clearly see the difference it made in her numbers, then I stayed very vague ans said I managed according to her numbers. I show them her numbers if they ask more and it’s all good.
 
Whew, glad you could see the document. Every once in a while we have to do a run through of our more popular threads to make sure links still work.
 
@cecile & bella
Thanks. It is a huge weight off of my shoulders that his numbers have started returning to what they were before this event. Definitely a rookie mistake.

I'm waiting for his vet to return to discuss his ear. I haven't seen him flipping it like he was, but he was digging at them the first couple days after they applied that treatment. It was very thick stuff. I'm sure it bothered him. It would have bother me.

I made the mistake of giving them a link to his spreadsheet. Because this vet's clinic has helped others here, I assumed they'd do the same for me. We shall see. What I'm not interested in is arguing with a vet again. She's been onboard with everything we've discussed, which is the complete opposite of his other vet. We didn't discuss the specifics of the dosing protocol though. She isn't who sent an email regarding reducing his dose. Again, I'm hopeful that they will take the time and read over what I've sent AND look at how I monitor him. I get seeing a reduction point of 50 can sound scary, especially if you've been a vet for 20 or 30+ years and have never seen it done or only once in your career. I can understand and see their point of view. I just need them to be able to see mine. If they push back, I may just tell them that I will go along with whatever they want and remove their access to his SS. There is only one other feline only clinic near me and they wanted $100 fee for me to meet with and speak to a vet. I understand time is money, but that just didn't sit right with me. I will never take my cats to a place that isn't feline only clinic again. The quietness of the place alone impressed me. My cat hates all the extremely loud noises that rang through his others vet's office everytime we were there. Not once was even remotely quiet. The environment suits him much better.

@Wendy&Neko
I didn't think to hold down. I'm sorry if I alarmed you. I'm glad you responded though because I would've continued to think it didn't work, never slowing down to realize it tells you when a link is broken. Now I know what to do if I see this ussue again from my phone.
 
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